A Hidden Community's QoL Request

kaithuzar

The people that play this game don't just fall into groups such as PVE, PVP, or RP, but there exist subgroups, or others.
One subgroup that may have people in all categories, & the most important one to me, is "Theorycrafting/Theorycrafters".

Theorycrafting is the ability to take all possible variables/variations for defense, offense, stats, looks, cp, gear, abilities, etc...and meld them together to create a uniquely special build & playstyle that both expresses your (or your characters) personality, while still allowing you to be somewhat effective with the games content. ie.. Dungeons, delves, trials, pvp, etc..

While it may not have started out this way, Theorycrafting has, for the past 4 years, been 50% of the reason I've continued to play this game.
Creating my own unique builds has acted as a challenge I enacted upon myself when no others existed. With over 300+ gear sets in game, multiple different styles & traits to choose from, many players such as myself have spent millions if not billions of in game currency on creating max level golden versions of gear. While Theorycrafting on the PTS server does help some, due to unlimited materials, some players are not able to use this whether they have a lack of hard drive space or are on console.

The biggest challenge that theorycrafters face today is one that hinders our ability to do what we love; creating new builds. This challenge is known by many as the dreaded "transmutation stone challenge". There simply are not enough ways to obtain transmutation stones for transmuting armor in a timely manner.
1 transmutation stone per dungeon, when it requires 50 for 1 piece of gear, is disheartening to say the least. Waiting an entire month for PVP rewards to change 2-3 pieces of gear whenever we have hundreds of pieces we take into consideration for creating builds is simply too long of a wait to play the aspect of the game we love.
On top of this, limiting us at 200 transmutation stones is something not understood by anyone whenever you take into account that there is an unlimited space crafting bag for those of us that are ESO+ members such as myself. It's true that the limit is a hindrance but even more so is the fact that getting the transmutation stones to begin with is almost impossible with the exception of 30-day end of campaign PVP rewards.

I would like to know if the players of ESO agree, disagree, or have other thoughts.

I'm hoping that someone at ZOS can see this & at least give a reply if not utilize this as an opportunity to enhance our ability to do what we love.
@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

wolfie1.0.

I have other thoughts...(explain please)

Isn't this what the PTS is supposed to be designed for?

kaithuzar

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Isn't this what the PTS is supposed to be designed for?

Please re-read again, specifically this line:
"While Theorycrafting on the PTS server does help some, due to unlimited materials, some players are not able to use this whether they have a lack of hard drive space or are on console."

Turelus

The stones were added to relieve pressure on RNG, they were never intended to be something to let people test or switch builds rapidly.

As others have said the best option is to test on PTS if you have access (not available for console), as you can use templates to just populate your account with loads of transmutation stones.

VaranisArano

ZOS was pretty clear they intended transmutation to be an option of last resort after you've played and played the content again and again and your RNG just sucks so you can't get the right trait.

ZOS never intended it to be convenient, easy, or quick. Thats why they locked it behind grinds, PVP campaigns, and put the 100/200 stone limit. They want you to play the game to get the gear you want. Even, no, especially if it takes you longer that way.

So no matter what your or I thibk of this suggestion, its contrary to what ZOS has stated they want. And since it would let you play the game less to get the gear you want to test, I can't see ZOS changing it.

Aznox

I theorycraft & dont' agree with you.

That's an interesting point of view, however i disagree.

Transmutation is the endgame grind for min-maxers.

Sure you could say transmutation hinders the ability for theorycrafters to fully test their creations.

However, Transmutation also prevents non-theorycrafter to hop from one min-maxed meta/fotm/popular build to one another every week.

In a sense, i'd say transmutation protects theorycrafters' work more than it prevents it.

Also theorycrafter are more capable at understanding why a build may or may not work, preventing them from wasting precious transmutation stones to replicate a famous streamer's build that would only perform in said streamer's context.

I agree testing wild ideas at 90% of their potential because of wrong trait is often frustrating, but overall i would say the balance found by ZoS is acceptable.

SirLeeMinion

I have other thoughts...(explain please)

kaithuzar wrote: »

While Theorycrafting on the PTS server does help some, due to unlimited materials, some players are not able to use this whether they have a lack of hard drive space or are on console.

I really appreciate the work others put into theory crafting. I unashamedly borrow builds from any credible source and respect those that are willing to put time into mashing numbers and coming up with usable builds. Further, I can sympathize with those that have problems accessing the test server. But, I'd venture that re-balancing the game based on this subset of the population (theory crafters who can't access PTS) is unlikely to end well. Putting $US 700 into a computer and buying a copy of the game for US$ 10 is likely a better way to solve this problem.

tmbrinks

My unpopular opinion, is that transmutation stones are too EASY to get. It's supposed to save you from needless RNG. I think it should cost 40 stones to transmute, and you get 1, yes ONE, from completing vMA, fractions for completing a dungeon. 5 maximum, from the campaign rewards in pvp. The odds of you getting the correct type of weapon in running vMA, for example, in 40 runs, is very high. (whether it be inferno, resto, etc.) But the odds of you getting the correct trait, is small. This takes that RNG out, but you still need to "grind" to get the gear you want. (In a my perfect world, the "stones" you use would even be specific to the content, so you'd need to run vMA to transmute vMA gear, but that would probably be too much).

Some of this stems from being in game since launch and having to grind out gear the old way, without stones. Took me over 300 runs to get my sharpened lightning vMA staff (when sharpened was best), but I had plenty of lightning staves before that, just not in the right trait. Being able to transmute after 40 or so runs would still mean that I have to run the end-game content, I have to "grind" out some gear.

I understand that your question came at a different angle... I'd propose that there gets to be some sort of "sandbox" mode, even in live, where you could play around with builds and such, but none of the gear comes out of say, your house, where you test... don't know how feasible this is though, as I have virtually no experience in programming.

crazy_catman21

I theorycraft & dont' agree with you.

Just use eso build editor wiki, you can make builds w/out having to log into this [snip] game.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Starlock

I theorycraft & dont' agree with you.

I suppose based on your description I'm a "theorycrafter" but do not identify as such (I think the term sounds ridiculous, no offense).

The lack of overland sources of transmutation stones is certainly something I find problematic and want to see changed. That said, it is a secondary obstacle in realizing the visions I have for my characters. Content gating is by far the worse obstacle. When creating characters, I only look at sets that are crafted, overland, or easy to find on guild traders (which means some of the PvP sets). Everything else is off the table. I understand that content gating isn't going to go away. But bind on pickup could. If I had to choose between adding transmute crystals to overland and removing nearly all bind on pickup from the game, I would definitely banish bind on pickup first.

ghastley

Doesn't the mere existence of theorycrafting for ESO mean that the game has moved too far from player skill towards "click and hope"? Yes a good build should make the best players even better, but it shouldn't replace the player in the equation.

MaleAmazon

I might be a bit slow (just home from work and got up at 5:40 this morning), but I don´t see how this really hinders your theorycrafting. To me the biggest hindrance is the lack of gold tempers for the 'finished product', plus opaque mechanics and bugs; e g templar jabs procing selene while it is a channel and benefits from thaumaturge (3000 gold down the drain to verify that since I don´t have PTS), thus shouldn´t be a melee attack, etc... and then you have the gear changes; just as I had a good Swamp Raider build they went ahead and dumbed the set down.. meh

But traits on items? I don´t see how that makes that much of a difference; the changes are relatively small and you can theorycraft stats changes from UESP data. I don´t need to retrait everything into invigorating to calculate how much regen it would give me. And one 'loss' of a divines piece for example is 17.85 WD... let´s be honest how much of a difference is that going to make?

So I guess I totally agree with you that it is hard to theorycraft and this could be made easier (how about adding a testing zone with free changes that were completely reverted when exiting the testing zone?), but I don´t see how transmutation stones specifically are the problem... can you clarify?

Everstorm

I have other thoughts...(explain please)

I wouldn't call myself a theorycrafter but I do like to experiment a lot. And it always annoyed me that in a game that has so many different possible setups that it seems actively discouraged to experiment. It's such a gigantic money and/or time sink to try something new it's no wonder that a lot of people adhere to the current META and even criticize everyone who doesn't.

kaithuzar

I guess my stance is that I've been playing since Beta, sometimes off & on, but for me "theorycrafting is playing" & I don't see myself playing less because I would get to do what I love about the game more.

I'm not the type that will make a build & just be content with it for months. Anyone that knows me will tell you I am working on my build 24/7, it's a personal thing, it's a never ending grind to improve, and I enjoy the thought process that I put into each build.

I wouldn't say I'm trying to "switch builds rapidly" but I guess it's up to definition/interpretation.
I would say that in a given patch cycle (I'm guessing here) 3-6 month timeframe, I probably create 3 builds based on ideas I have. If we go with a 6 month timeframe & average it out, say 7 pieces of armor (I won't include weapons & jewelry for this generalization), that means I get to re-trait 21 pieces of gear in order to find out what I like the best. 6 months times 2 retraits per month is going to get me about half way there. Before mechanics change, new gear sets come out, abilities get buffed/nerfed.

What's the harm? If you're afraid "more people will be running the same build because it's easier to obtain" all that does is show what could be overpowered at that particular time & may even need to be fixed. There will always be bis (best in slot) gear, but that often changes every patch.
My focus is not on what "the community as a whole thinks is BIS", but rather "what is truly BIS for me & my playstyle". I also try to impart this way of thinking to others that I might help with their builds.

I personally don't have the time to invest having all of my characters getting to tier3 in PVP rewards; especially considering most of my characters outside my main are not max level. But I'm sure this is the thought behind people saying "they are too easy to obtain". Most certainly a streamer or someone who's able to invest much more time in the game than I am, someone with 8+ max level characters, having them all get tier1-2 rewards every end of campaign; it must be great. I bet they never run out!
But for those of us who are adults, have jobs, families, obligations, & just generally play less, we still want to enjoy things in our own way.

HalloweenWeed

I don't theorycraft but I agree with you.

I know what Theorycrafting REALLY is, you stated it but didn't really go into details of just how scientific & complete the process is, testing & using test results, etc. I do spec my new characters out to do exactly what you said, but I know I don't do as much research as true Theorycrafters, so I don't call myself one. For instance, my newest build is a Bosmer Stamina DK (I have 8 toons, only 2 are alts). Despite all the Theorycrafter's recommendation of Orc or Khajiit it is my opinion that the best race for this (in the long run) is Bosmer. So I don't follow the Theorycrafters.

But yeah, sounds like a good argument to me, I agree (OP).


I just want to add that one of my toons is a CP 112 Altmer MagPlar (Aelenshaard) who got nerfed bad a few years ago by an update, if I was a Theorycrafter I might have made an Orc or Khijiit Stamplar, and he wouldn't have been sidelined for the past two+ years. I am hoping that with this update he will become viable for main gameplay again, as I really like playing with him (when I can win). Also, I wouldn't have taken a 1.5yr. hiatus if they hadn't nerfed the MagPlar. I think every time they nerf something, or nerf indirectly such as buff most others, they create bad mojo with certain players, so if they keep doing it eventually they will p**s off everyone and lose player base. I spent a year leveling-up Aelenshaard then they nerfed him bad. Players nowadays may not understand it used to take at least 4x as long to level up back then.

starkerealm

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Isn't this what the PTS is supposed to be designed for?

No, but it does fill this role admirably.

That said, some stuff does need to be tested in a live environment. The PTS can be fantastic for basic build prototyping, but if you want to test it on group content, then it has to happen on live, unless you've got a cadre of players who are willing to jump over and screw around.

kaithuzar wrote: »

"While Theorycrafting on the PTS server does help some, due to unlimited materials, some players are not able to use this whether they have a lack of hard drive space or are on console."

While I'm certainly sympathetic, if this is your goal, then the PTS is the single best tool for the job.

However, since this isn't about that, and is about the Transmute stones, here's my advice:

Run battlegrounds, collect rewards for the worthy. These will pay out a minimum of 4 stones each day. Clear vet pledges, this will give you 2-20 crystals each dungeon, each day.

Each trial complete coffer will pay out with 5 crystals every time. That's 40 per week, even if you don't have additional character slots.

kaithuzar wrote: »

On top of this, limiting us at 200 transmutation stones is something not understood by anyone whenever you take into account that there is an unlimited space crafting bag for those of us that are ESO+ members such as myself.

The advice I received on this subject was, "use 'em." The limit is designed to put pressure on the player, and to discourage us from hoarding up Transmute crystals indefinitely, while still leaving the door open for us to go, "over," the limit by chewing up inventory space.

The other thing about Transmute crystals is, they're designed to encourage you to engage in group activities. Stuff that needs players to engage with it. So:

• PvP: because if there's no one to kill, there's nothing to do.
• Dungeons -> Pledges: Because we're not supposed to be able to go it alone in that content.
• Trials: Because you really can't go it alone.

You know how to get them, it just remains to actually go out and do it.

max_only

I don't theorycraft but I agree with you.

I used to theorycraft like you

Then my nightblade tank took 3 nerfs to the knee one update after another.

So many sets abandoned. I gave up on the Nightblade. Being unique is a crying game.

ImmortalCX

Op, i love your post.

Three potential solutions.

1) more housing storage to save variants.

2) transmuted items can be switched to any of their previous traits for free.

3) items of same type stack and list of variants increases.

MaxJrFTW

I theorycraft & dont' agree with you.

kaithuzar wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Isn't this what the PTS is supposed to be designed for?

Please re-read again, specifically this line:
"While Theorycrafting on the PTS server does help some, due to unlimited materials, some players are not able to use this whether they have a lack of hard drive space or are on console."

And somehow not owning a pc or not having enough free space is ZOS' fault? Common now...

Vapirko

I don't theorycraft but I also don't agree with you.

You must be transmuting multiple pieces a day then. I certainly don’t have any issue if people want more of them. Just please not from ROTWs. I can’t hold anymore. I get one from what feels like 1-3 ROTWs and you get so many even from just an hour or two of PvP.