Ezio's Suggestions!!!!!!!!!

ezio45

Hello all *waves*

For a brief moment I would like to take a break from complaining about murkmire to......Make some positive suggestions on how to improve the game :O whhhhhhuuuuut


Class balance:

Yall veterans remember the original concepts for the classes? Like the ones on the eso website before the game even came out? Lets go back to that. That was the reason to play other classes. In the beginning if you wanted to play a 2h brawler type you were a stam dk, If you wanted to be a healer you were a magplar, if you wanted to be an assassin you were a stam nightblade, if you wanted to be an up close quick agile fighter you were a stam sorc. Why is this not a thing anymore? why can you play a 2h brawler on a stamsorc? because the classes have been eroded of there original identities. when I was a lvl 20 I wanted to play a sorc healer, my guildmates told me that was stupid, you know what? they were right.Can you do it, yes, is there any reason to do that over a templar, no, is that ok, you bet. Im fine by theory crafting, if people want to try something try it, maybe it will work. The core functions of the classes tho should remain intact and should be developed with a set style for stam and mag versions of each class in mind.

Dungeons

Want to know why players 4 dps a dungeon? Its because they dont want to be there and want it over quickly, dungeons drop gear that is usable in pvp, dungeons, overland and trials. Meaning with bind on pick up that was introduced you HAVE to farm dungeons. You probably have to farm it quite a bit and your doing it solo, but thats less drops, so you q finder and blow thru the dungeon

Why is this a problem? Some player dont want to blow thru a dungeon. Why? because they enjoy doing dungeons!!!! Ya know what will really slow down burn and help players of lower skill levels complete dungeons? replacing 2 of the 4 dps with a tank and healer. Curiously enough the roles that feel they arnt wanted by the people looking to blow thru the dungeon that are now taking fake tank and healer roles to que faster.

Sooooo Maybe lets bring back bind on equip dungeon gear, .let the players that want to do dungeons do dungeons and let the players that want the gear but hate dungeons buy it... Or at the VERY LEAST have a "i would like to farm quickly que"

and dont tell me this is power creep, I met my first 2 friends on eso the first time I gave the game a try, outside of banished cells 1 (back when vet 1 was something to be jealous of and you walked to dungeons) the 3 off us all under lvl 40, no good gear, no tank, no healer, walked in there and finished it. Did it take a bunch of tries, yes. but you have always been able to 3-4 dps dungeons.

Pvp

Bring back faction locking!!!!! Why is noone invested in their alliance anymore and just farms ap? Because it doesnt matter what side you play on if you have all 3 colors in the campaign. Regardless of who wins you win. See what side is doing best that campaign, switch to it farm ap until you get rewards, once youve done that go and play all your toons because youll at least get something even on the losing factions.

also make more use of battle spirit so pve and pvp can quit arguing

also do something about the tank meta

Trials

We want more full length trials. Mini trials are a joke on normal or vet and the hm are for like end game trials guilds. The "non hm vet" full length trials were a good average player thing, you start in the crags work your way up to the hm, do vmol, do vhof. That was progression and improving your skills as an average skill player. The mini vet trials just kills that with how easy they are. Also vet progressions were fun. You found people you liked and spent a couple hrs every whenever working on beating it. Also the mini trial non hm vets arnt rewarding with their rewards and the rewards for the different versions of the hardmodes are confusing. Vas you dont get perfected weapons unless its +2 or the weekly learderboard, that means there is little to no reason to ever run the vas +0 unless its the weekly. I dont even know what is going on with cloudrest, want a purple imperfect ring have 0 clue what version it drops from.

Power creep

I dont even know if i think the power creep is really a problem right now, like I said I think people that want to 3-4 dps things will do it until they dont have to do things they hate to get gear they need. But ya know what will definitely stop the power creep? stop raising champion points by 30 every patch. People have other ways of progressing. trying to solo vet dungeons, trying out different builds and learning their class, lvling new classes and learning them if they all werent the same, working thru trials progression.

Another example, first time i did vdsa we had 3 dps 1 tank, im a mag sorc so BOOO shields make healers not needed, except the other 2 dps were a stam dk and a stam sorc... what was their excuse, they dont have shields.

Dlc and nerfs

Zos, we dont actually hate your dlc's shocking ik. we hate the accompanying patch every 3 months. To many changes to quick is wearing players out. Especially with the nerfs, it makes us feel like every 3 months were playing russian roulette with the classes. It makes it hard to look forward to and be hyped for patches when we all know that one off the classes could be completely gutted. Anyone invested in there class has gotten worried every 3 months since morrowind when you killed templars and sustain, on this you havent proven our fears invalid as generally we get a classes or a core mechanic like off balance nerfed. We want to look forward to your updates, we want to be excited but with this kind of balancing we cant.

And if a patch isnt ready there is nothing wrong and it is infact the best decision to hold off on releasing it. We have seen companies PRAISED for doing this.... to deliver a better and more polished product to the players. why zos is so reluctant to do this baffles me.

Also on the topic of nerfs, we are ok if you want to make adjustments to things like strength, duration, aoe size. We are HEAVILY against changing how used skills work, cast time on shields, stun on frag, stun on dk whips ( think i heard something about that idk im a sorc i dont understand what nerfs effect other classes dramatically. But while im on this, other classes, if you tell me calmly why you hate something, instead of being like well now zos should nerf x,y and z from other classes by all means i am down to hate that nerf too), the breath of life cone, rune cage getting a stun time. Those are the things we arnt ok with. There not improvements there derailments sucking the fun and identity from classes. This type of thing should not be a go to for zos, we should see maybe one yearly if extremely needed not every 3 months or an insane amount in one patch. If you want to improve an unused skills, great, for example if you want to make crystal blast a stam morph more power to you.


TL:DR

Take the game back to its roots, stop trying to claw away from what made people like this game in the first place. Your "fixing" what wasnt broken while leaving what was not utilized unimproved.

Vapirko

Well said, but it would be surprising if ZOS went back on all the things they’ve done. I think they’ve pretty well shown us how things are gonna go until they stop working on ESO. Hope I’m wrong.

Swomp23

I don't agree with everything completly, but that's a very well-thought post. Here, have an insightful.

ezio45

Swomp23 wrote: »

I don't agree with everything completly, but that's a very well-thought post. Here, have an insightful.

Well voice your concerns O.o Zos doesnt listen but I do lol

Colecovision

Does the op ask himself too many questions? Absolutely. Does he still have some good ideas there? You bet.

ezio45

Colecovision wrote: »

Does the op ask himself too many questions? Absolutely. Does he still have some good ideas there? You bet.

xD

MagicalLija

I like having a healer nightblade or sorc, it provides more flexibility to what people visually enjoy to see

TheValar85

ezio45 wrote: »

Hello all *waves*

For a brief moment I would like to take a break from complaining about murkmire to......Make some positive suggestions on how to improve the game :O whhhhhhuuuuut


Class balance:

Yall veterans remember the original concepts for the classes? Like the ones on the eso website before the game even came out? Lets go back to that. That was the reason to play other classes. In the beginning if you wanted to play a 2h brawler type you were a stam dk, If you wanted to be a healer you were a magplar, if you wanted to be an assassin you were a stam nightblade, if you wanted to be an up close quick agile fighter you were a stam sorc. Why is this not a thing anymore? why can you play a 2h brawler on a stamsorc? because the classes have been eroded of there original identities. when I was a lvl 20 I wanted to play a sorc healer, my guildmates told me that was stupid, you know what? they were right.Can you do it, yes, is there any reason to do that over a templar, no, is that ok, you bet. Im fine by theory crafting, if people want to try something try it, maybe it will work. The core functions of the classes tho should remain intact and should be developed with a set style for stam and mag versions of each class in mind.

Dungeons

Want to know why players 4 dps a dungeon? Its because they dont want to be there and want it over quickly, dungeons drop gear that is usable in pvp, dungeons, overland and trials. Meaning with bind on pick up that was introduced you HAVE to farm dungeons. You probably have to farm it quite a bit and your doing it solo, but thats less drops, so you q finder and blow thru the dungeon

Why is this a problem? Some player dont want to blow thru a dungeon. Why? because they enjoy doing dungeons!!!! Ya know what will really slow down burn and help players of lower skill levels complete dungeons? replacing 2 of the 4 dps with a tank and healer. Curiously enough the roles that feel they arnt wanted by the people looking to blow thru the dungeon that are now taking fake tank and healer roles to que faster.

Sooooo Maybe lets bring back bind on equip dungeon gear, .let the players that want to do dungeons do dungeons and let the players that want the gear but hate dungeons buy it... Or at the VERY LEAST have a "i would like to farm quickly que"

and dont tell me this is power creep, I met my first 2 friends on eso the first time I gave the game a try, outside of banished cells 1 (back when vet 1 was something to be jealous of and you walked to dungeons) the 3 off us all under lvl 40, no good gear, no tank, no healer, walked in there and finished it. Did it take a bunch of tries, yes. but you have always been able to 3-4 dps dungeons.

Pvp

Bring back faction locking!!!!! Why is noone invested in their alliance anymore and just farms ap? Because it doesnt matter what side you play on if you have all 3 colors in the campaign. Regardless of who wins you win. See what side is doing best that campaign, switch to it farm ap until you get rewards, once youve done that go and play all your toons because youll at least get something even on the losing factions.

also make more use of battle spirit so pve and pvp can quit arguing

also do something about the tank meta

Trials

We want more full length trials. Mini trials are a joke on normal or vet and the hm are for like end game trials guilds. The "non hm vet" full length trials were a good average player thing, you start in the crags work your way up to the hm, do vmol, do vhof. That was progression and improving your skills as an average skill player. The mini vet trials just kills that with how easy they are. Also vet progressions were fun. You found people you liked and spent a couple hrs every whenever working on beating it. Also the mini trial non hm vets arnt rewarding with their rewards and the rewards for the different versions of the hardmodes are confusing. Vas you dont get perfected weapons unless its +2 or the weekly learderboard, that means there is little to no reason to ever run the vas +0 unless its the weekly. I dont even know what is going on with cloudrest, want a purple imperfect ring have 0 clue what version it drops from.

Power creep

I dont even know if i think the power creep is really a problem right now, like I said I think people that want to 3-4 dps things will do it until they dont have to do things they hate to get gear they need. But ya know what will definitely stop the power creep? stop raising champion points by 30 every patch. People have other ways of progressing. trying to solo vet dungeons, trying out different builds and learning their class, lvling new classes and learning them if they all werent the same, working thru trials progression.

Another example, first time i did vdsa we had 3 dps 1 tank, im a mag sorc so BOOO shields make healers not needed, except the other 2 dps were a stam dk and a stam sorc... what was their excuse, they dont have shields.

Dlc and nerfs

Zos, we dont actually hate your dlc's shocking ik. we hate the accompanying patch every 3 months. To many changes to quick is wearing players out. Especially with the nerfs, it makes us feel like every 3 months were playing russian roulette with the classes. It makes it hard to look forward to and be hyped for patches when we all know that one off the classes could be completely gutted. Anyone invested in there class has gotten worried every 3 months since morrowind when you killed templars and sustain, on this you havent proven our fears invalid as generally we get a classes or a core mechanic like off balance nerfed. We want to look forward to your updates, we want to be excited but with this kind of balancing we cant.

And if a patch isnt ready there is nothing wrong and it is infact the best decision to hold off on releasing it. We have seen companies PRAISED for doing this.... to deliver a better and more polished product to the players. why zos is so reluctant to do this baffles me.

Also on the topic of nerfs, we are ok if you want to make adjustments to things like strength, duration, aoe size. We are HEAVILY against changing how used skills work, cast time on shields, stun on frag, stun on dk whips ( think i heard something about that idk im a sorc i dont understand what nerfs effect other classes dramatically. But while im on this, other classes, if you tell me calmly why you hate something, instead of being like well now zos should nerf x,y and z from other classes by all means i am down to hate that nerf too), the breath of life cone, rune cage getting a stun time. Those are the things we arnt ok with. There not improvements there derailments sucking the fun and identity from classes. This type of thing should not be a go to for zos, we should see maybe one yearly if extremely needed not every 3 months or an insane amount in one patch. If you want to improve an unused skills, great, for example if you want to make crystal blast a stam morph more power to you.


TL:DR

Take the game back to its roots, stop trying to claw away from what made people like this game in the first place. Your "fixing" what wasnt broken while leaving what was not utilized unimproved.

@ZOS Hier this man! (im not joking nor trolling i am deadly sirius)

HalloweenWeed

You've just become my hero!
Exactly this.

Turelus

Vapirko wrote: »

Well said, but it would be surprising if ZOS went back on all the things they’ve done. I think they’ve pretty well shown us how things are gonna go until they stop working on ESO. Hope I’m wrong.

Yeah, I think the new style has been set and that's what they want to build on going forward.

It seems like they have an idea what they want for the game since Morrowind, just haven't done well expressing that.

Odovacar

Faction Locking !

ezio45

TheValar85 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Hello all *waves*

For a brief moment I would like to take a break from complaining about murkmire to......Make some positive suggestions on how to improve the game :O whhhhhhuuuuut


Class balance:

Yall veterans remember the original concepts for the classes? Like the ones on the eso website before the game even came out? Lets go back to that. That was the reason to play other classes. In the beginning if you wanted to play a 2h brawler type you were a stam dk, If you wanted to be a healer you were a magplar, if you wanted to be an assassin you were a stam nightblade, if you wanted to be an up close quick agile fighter you were a stam sorc. Why is this not a thing anymore? why can you play a 2h brawler on a stamsorc? because the classes have been eroded of there original identities. when I was a lvl 20 I wanted to play a sorc healer, my guildmates told me that was stupid, you know what? they were right.Can you do it, yes, is there any reason to do that over a templar, no, is that ok, you bet. Im fine by theory crafting, if people want to try something try it, maybe it will work. The core functions of the classes tho should remain intact and should be developed with a set style for stam and mag versions of each class in mind.

Dungeons

Want to know why players 4 dps a dungeon? Its because they dont want to be there and want it over quickly, dungeons drop gear that is usable in pvp, dungeons, overland and trials. Meaning with bind on pick up that was introduced you HAVE to farm dungeons. You probably have to farm it quite a bit and your doing it solo, but thats less drops, so you q finder and blow thru the dungeon

Why is this a problem? Some player dont want to blow thru a dungeon. Why? because they enjoy doing dungeons!!!! Ya know what will really slow down burn and help players of lower skill levels complete dungeons? replacing 2 of the 4 dps with a tank and healer. Curiously enough the roles that feel they arnt wanted by the people looking to blow thru the dungeon that are now taking fake tank and healer roles to que faster.

Sooooo Maybe lets bring back bind on equip dungeon gear, .let the players that want to do dungeons do dungeons and let the players that want the gear but hate dungeons buy it... Or at the VERY LEAST have a "i would like to farm quickly que"

and dont tell me this is power creep, I met my first 2 friends on eso the first time I gave the game a try, outside of banished cells 1 (back when vet 1 was something to be jealous of and you walked to dungeons) the 3 off us all under lvl 40, no good gear, no tank, no healer, walked in there and finished it. Did it take a bunch of tries, yes. but you have always been able to 3-4 dps dungeons.

Pvp

Bring back faction locking!!!!! Why is noone invested in their alliance anymore and just farms ap? Because it doesnt matter what side you play on if you have all 3 colors in the campaign. Regardless of who wins you win. See what side is doing best that campaign, switch to it farm ap until you get rewards, once youve done that go and play all your toons because youll at least get something even on the losing factions.

also make more use of battle spirit so pve and pvp can quit arguing

also do something about the tank meta

Trials

We want more full length trials. Mini trials are a joke on normal or vet and the hm are for like end game trials guilds. The "non hm vet" full length trials were a good average player thing, you start in the crags work your way up to the hm, do vmol, do vhof. That was progression and improving your skills as an average skill player. The mini vet trials just kills that with how easy they are. Also vet progressions were fun. You found people you liked and spent a couple hrs every whenever working on beating it. Also the mini trial non hm vets arnt rewarding with their rewards and the rewards for the different versions of the hardmodes are confusing. Vas you dont get perfected weapons unless its +2 or the weekly learderboard, that means there is little to no reason to ever run the vas +0 unless its the weekly. I dont even know what is going on with cloudrest, want a purple imperfect ring have 0 clue what version it drops from.

Power creep

I dont even know if i think the power creep is really a problem right now, like I said I think people that want to 3-4 dps things will do it until they dont have to do things they hate to get gear they need. But ya know what will definitely stop the power creep? stop raising champion points by 30 every patch. People have other ways of progressing. trying to solo vet dungeons, trying out different builds and learning their class, lvling new classes and learning them if they all werent the same, working thru trials progression.

Another example, first time i did vdsa we had 3 dps 1 tank, im a mag sorc so BOOO shields make healers not needed, except the other 2 dps were a stam dk and a stam sorc... what was their excuse, they dont have shields.

Dlc and nerfs

Zos, we dont actually hate your dlc's shocking ik. we hate the accompanying patch every 3 months. To many changes to quick is wearing players out. Especially with the nerfs, it makes us feel like every 3 months were playing russian roulette with the classes. It makes it hard to look forward to and be hyped for patches when we all know that one off the classes could be completely gutted. Anyone invested in there class has gotten worried every 3 months since morrowind when you killed templars and sustain, on this you havent proven our fears invalid as generally we get a classes or a core mechanic like off balance nerfed. We want to look forward to your updates, we want to be excited but with this kind of balancing we cant.

And if a patch isnt ready there is nothing wrong and it is infact the best decision to hold off on releasing it. We have seen companies PRAISED for doing this.... to deliver a better and more polished product to the players. why zos is so reluctant to do this baffles me.

Also on the topic of nerfs, we are ok if you want to make adjustments to things like strength, duration, aoe size. We are HEAVILY against changing how used skills work, cast time on shields, stun on frag, stun on dk whips ( think i heard something about that idk im a sorc i dont understand what nerfs effect other classes dramatically. But while im on this, other classes, if you tell me calmly why you hate something, instead of being like well now zos should nerf x,y and z from other classes by all means i am down to hate that nerf too), the breath of life cone, rune cage getting a stun time. Those are the things we arnt ok with. There not improvements there derailments sucking the fun and identity from classes. This type of thing should not be a go to for zos, we should see maybe one yearly if extremely needed not every 3 months or an insane amount in one patch. If you want to improve an unused skills, great, for example if you want to make crystal blast a stam morph more power to you.


TL:DR

Take the game back to its roots, stop trying to claw away from what made people like this game in the first place. Your "fixing" what wasnt broken while leaving what was not utilized unimproved.

@ZOS Hier this man! (im not joking nor trolling i am deadly sirius)

I will work for 100$ and 100 $ in crowns a week

jcm2606

Turelus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Well said, but it would be surprising if ZOS went back on all the things they’ve done. I think they’ve pretty well shown us how things are gonna go until they stop working on ESO. Hope I’m wrong.

Yeah, I think the new style has been set and that's what they want to build on going forward.

It seems like they have an idea what they want for the game since Morrowind, just haven't done well expressing that.

They really don't.

Consider the sustain changes that came with Morrowind, the mantra back then was they wanted players to heavy attack more often in order to sustain. This paved way for the introduction of heavy attack builds, where your main spammable is heavy attacks.

Then with Summerset, they nerfed heavy attacks in relation to light attacks, pushing players back to light attacks in order to deal damage, without really giving them the tools to sustain a full light attack rotation. The only class that could without help via Spell Symmetry was Nightblade.

And now with Murkmire, we've seen a few classes/specs be given tools to help sustain, and with the revamped enchant system, absorb magicka/stamina glyphs are a viable way to sustain a (mostly) light attack rotation.

However, this seems to be coming to an end at some point, as enchants are looking to be nerfed, given how much they're overperforming in PVP.

TL;DR Morrowind pushed players to heavy attack more often in order to sustain, Summerset nerfed heavy attacks in order to push players back to light attacks for damage, without giving players anything to sustain a full light attack rotation.

Two fundamentally different playstyles in the span of a year. Not even touching on the various minor flip-flopping of metas between Morrowind and Summerset, and the current meta. They really don't have an idea for how they want the game to play. At least, they didn't have it until Summerset, seems like.

Royaji

jcm2606 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Well said, but it would be surprising if ZOS went back on all the things they’ve done. I think they’ve pretty well shown us how things are gonna go until they stop working on ESO. Hope I’m wrong.

Yeah, I think the new style has been set and that's what they want to build on going forward.

It seems like they have an idea what they want for the game since Morrowind, just haven't done well expressing that.

They really don't.

Consider the sustain changes that came with Morrowind, the mantra back then was they wanted players to heavy attack more often in order to sustain. This paved way for the introduction of heavy attack builds, where your main spammable is heavy attacks.

Then with Summerset, they nerfed heavy attacks in relation to light attacks, pushing players back to light attacks in order to deal damage, without really giving them the tools to sustain a full light attack rotation. The only class that could without help via Spell Symmetry was Nightblade.

And now with Murkmire, we've seen a few classes/specs be given tools to help sustain, and with the revamped enchant system, absorb magicka/stamina glyphs are a viable way to sustain a (mostly) light attack rotation.

However, this seems to be coming to an end at some point, as enchants are looking to be nerfed, given how much they're overperforming in PVP.

TL;DR Morrowind pushed players to heavy attack more often in order to sustain, Summerset nerfed heavy attacks in order to push players back to light attacks for damage, without giving players anything to sustain a full light attack rotation.

Two fundamentally different playstyles in the span of a year. Not even touching on the various minor flip-flopping of metas between Morrowind and Summerset, and the current meta. They really don't have an idea for how they want the game to play. At least, they didn't have it until Summerset, seems like.

Not sure what is the problem. Light attacks are for damage and heavy attacks are for sustain. They've been pushing this agenda since Morrowind. You are supposed to have high damage and low sustain with LA rotation and vice versa with HA rotation. ZOSs idea is to have players choose between LA and HA depending on their resources.

We can discuss if that vision is bad or good. And yes, it is not optimal and people still find ways to go around it. But it is pretty consistent.

Turelus

jcm2606 wrote: »

Consider the sustain changes that came with Morrowind, the mantra back then was they wanted players to heavy attack more often in order to sustain. This paved way for the introduction of heavy attack builds, where your main spammable is heavy attacks.

Then with Summerset, they nerfed heavy attacks in relation to light attacks, pushing players back to light attacks in order to deal damage, without really giving them the tools to sustain a full light attack rotation. The only class that could without help via Spell Symmetry was Nightblade.

Aren't these two both applying to the same approach though, light attacks for damage, heavy for sustain.
The way I see it is that ZOS wants people to light weave for DPS periods then switch to some heavy attacks to get resources back (during an off balance moment) then go back to their rotation.

However we as players don't want to take breaks, so we keep trying to build in ways which give the most up time for constant DPS as possible.