Questions on notional build (try not to laugh too hard)

Abigail

BACKGROUND

My alts are CP 510 as of this writing.

I've been playing since June 2018.

I've created a number of Mag Pet Sorcs, all with varying armor, weapons, races, and pet combinations. I like them, they suit my playing style perfectly.

Because of physical imperments I'm compelled to use mouse-based macros, but I can create fairly sophisticated, well-timed macros that include weaving and leverage enchantment cool downs.

My DPS on the alts ranges from 27K to 35K (based on overground content).

I don't do group content or PvP, but I do like playing around with builds.


SITUATION

I want to create a new Mag Pet Sorc that is primarily built for WBs and soloing some group dungeons.


NOTIONAL CONCEPT

Race: Dunmer or Imperial (open to suggestions)

Armor: 5 x Queen's Elegance (3 pcs jewelry); 5 x Julianos (Heavy Armor) -- all Divine

Weapons: 1 x destro staff (flame); 1 x healing staff (shock)

Enchantments: all Health (see below, Magicka is not an issue).

Rotation: Primarily HA with timed Matriarch heals in the macro. Wall of Elements as required.

Pets: Clannfear (for tanking) and Twilight Matriarch (for DD and pet heals)


NOTES

Again, only soloing. I understand this is a very slow-burn build where Magicka is not an issue and emphasis is on character survival. Also, I'm fully aware this is a really crap build with low DPS -- I'd never EVER group with it.


COMMENTS INVITED

Without laughing at me too much, can anyone offer recommendations on how I might improve on this build, I am completely open. Thank you in advance.

GreenHere

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Abigail

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

GreenHere

For just tooling around in solo builds, it's hard to see how you could go wrong. If you're enjoying it and getting things accomplished that you set out to do, more power to you!

While not considered high by many, anything over 20K dps is plenty for just about everything that can be soloed. You're way higher than a lot of players in the 25-35k range!



When you say, "Enchantments: all Health (see below, Magicka is not an issue).", are you talking armor, or weapon enchants?

If weapon, I'd suggest basically anything else, as there are many better ways to get health back, and pretty sure any/every other glyph would benefit you more. Weapon Power or Weakening glyphs can tune how much damage you can do, or how much you're taking. Elemental glyphs will do more damage -- probably even the Poison/Disease ones would, even for a Magicka-based build (I haven't tested). Prismatic Onslaught glyphs are great against eligible targets, too.

If armor, I'd suggest Prismatic Defense glyphs. You'll end up with 150% total resources, and extra stam vs a little bit less health is a good way to learn to lean more heavily on dodge/block than simply absorbing damage to the face. And you'll have more magicka, which means more damage.

GreenHere

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

Checked how / with who, may I ask? I'm genuinely curious.

Abigail

GreenHere wrote: »

If armor, I'd suggest Prismatic Defense glyphs. You'll end up with 150% total resources, and extra stam vs a little bit less health is a good way to learn to lean more heavily on dodge/block than simply absorbing damage to the face. And you'll have more magicka, which means more damage.

I did mean armor, and thank you for the suggestion! I did wonder about that, but in my relative newbishness I discounted Prismatic.

My dodge/block ability is just about nonexistent. If you've ever seen anyone running along and then do a dodge for no good reason, it was me. My hands shake really bad.

GreenHere

Also, if you're not opposed to trying out a Dragonknight, Elegant pairs well with the Molten Armaments skill. You can get silly high heavy attack damage that way, if that's the main theme you're going for with this build. Are you married to playing with pets? Have you tried the monster sets like Maw of the Infernal or Shadowrend?

Also, Sorc or DK, if you're using pets then Necropotence might boost your damage more than Julianos will. I'll see if I can find recent info on it, since the light/heavy attack rebalances.

GreenHere

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

If armor, I'd suggest Prismatic Defense glyphs. You'll end up with 150% total resources, and extra stam vs a little bit less health is a good way to learn to lean more heavily on dodge/block than simply absorbing damage to the face. And you'll have more magicka, which means more damage.

I did mean armor, and thank you for the suggestion! I did wonder about that, but in my relative newbishness I discounted Prismatic.

My dodge/block ability is just about nonexistent. If you've ever seen anyone running along and then do a dodge for no good reason, it was me. My hands shake really bad.

In that case, Prismatics might be a wasted expense. You end up with 150% total resources, counting all three; but if you have no real use for stamina, you can get the same exact amount of health & magicka by just using those full strength normal glyphs.

Just realize: more health = less magicka = less damage. BUT, more damage don't mean squat when you're dead, so you're smart to prioritize survivability. My main advice then is to find the right amount of health where you always have just enough, then pour the rest of your resources into magicka. If you never ever drop below 5K health, then that's 4K magicka you're missing in my mind. ;P

Abigail

GreenHere wrote: »

Also, if you're not opposed to trying out a Dragonknight, Elegant pairs well with the Molten Armaments skill. You can get silly high heavy attack damage that way, if that's the main theme you're going for with this build. Are you married to playing with pets? Have you tried the monster sets like Maw of the Infernal or Shadowrend?

Also, Sorc or DK, if you're using pets then Necropotence might boost your damage more than Julianos will. I'll see if I can find recent info on it, since the light/heavy attack rebalances.

Thank you again for responding!

Monster sets, as in running repeated Undaunted group dungeons. No can do. My playing ability is way too sketchy to do group stuff, and the stress of it makes my hands shake even more. The last time I did even a simple one left me saturated with perspiration (seriously).

The reason I suggested Julianos is because I can craft heavy pieces that still give me some useful magicka and offensive bonuses. I've Necro on a couple of my other sorcs, but it's only light armor. The whole purpose around this notional build is to survive while my pets do all the work.

Turelus

GreenHere wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

Checked how / with who, may I ask? I'm genuinely curious.

Not to derail the thread but agreed, the last official stance from ZOS was that macro keyboards etc. to set up scripted patterns were not okay. That was like three years ago though.

Abigail

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

Checked how / with who, may I ask? I'm genuinely curious.

Not to derail the thread but agreed, the last official stance from ZOS was that macro keyboards etc. to set up scripted patterns were not okay. That was like three years ago though.

Thank you for contacting the Elder Scrolls Online. The use of macro's is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with using Macros, if you have a mouse or keyboard that can be set up with macro's and you wish to use them feel free. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email.

Warm Regards, Jon
The Elder Scrolls Support Team.

AcadianPaladin

No laughing here, Abigail. If you can add Surge, I think you may find it benefits you. Lasts a long time and is an easy 20% boost to your damage. I actually ran a similar build but relied on a big empowered ward shield to protect my little clannfear tank. He melts too quickly after the patch so my magsorc is. . . resting.

Abigail

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

No laughing here, Abigail. If you can add Surge, I think you may find it benefits you. Lasts a long time and is an easy 20% boost to your damage.

Thank you, and understood. Surge is most definitely a part of my arsenal. For this build, I expect to use Conjured Ward and Daedric Curse, also. I didn't list my intended buffs.

Turelus

Thanks Abigail, really appreciate the info.

Until now the main official information we had was from years back stating that wasn't the case.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Try mad tinkerer instead of julianos, a free stun and damage.

Abigail

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Try mad tinkerer instead of julianos, a free stun and damage.

Thank you. I shall reinvestigate Mad Tinkerer. One reason they're not on my radar is acquisition of correct pieces with Divine traits. That said, I do a lot of grinding and Clockwork City may be a good target after I equip initially. Thank you, again, for this heads up.

Since my goal doesn't include BiS equipment, I've also considered crafting Twice Born Star. (More laughs.) This would allow me to add max magicka for first Mundus and max health for the second. Pet damage will benefit from additional magicka and I'll get a bump in health. Also, TBS is craftable in heavy armor. I realize there are dungeon drops which are superior, but those are beyond my reach. Queen's Elegance ranks high with me because I already have it and the 20% HA/LA bonus suits this particular build very well. Obviously, I will skew my CPs toward HA/LA attacks, also.

GreenHere

Abigail wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Try mad tinkerer instead of julianos, a free stun and damage.

Thank you. I shall reinvestigate Mad Tinkerer. One reason they're not on my radar is acquisition of correct pieces with Divine traits. That said, I do a lot of grinding and Clockwork City may be a good target after I equip initially. Thank you, again, for this heads up.

Since my goal doesn't include BiS equipment, I've also considered crafting Twice Born Star. (More laughs.) This would allow me to add max magicka for first Mundus and max health for the second. Pet damage will benefit from additional magicka and I'll get a bump in health. Also, TBS is craftable in heavy armor. I realize there are dungeon drops which are superior, but those are beyond my reach. Queen's Elegance ranks high with me because I already have it and the 20% HA/LA bonus suits this particular build very well. Obviously, I will skew my CPs toward HA/LA attacks, also.

Instead of Twice Born, you may get more mileage out of Torug's Pact. It's another craftable set, if that's what you're really going for. Lower requirements, too, if that matters. (And, in case you're wondering, NO - it's not because of recent events & changes to how enchants are working; it's always been a good set.) Since TBS gives stamina (which you said you don't really need), Torug's might serve you better since it still gives Max Health, plus some extra Spell Resistance instead of Max Stamina, and you trade a Max Magicka slot for Spell Damage (which is generally a fairly even trade; you want both stats to be high as possible).

If you're doing lots of heavy/light attacks and keeping Elemental Blockade down, then your weapon enchantments are making up a not-insignificant portion of your overall damage. Boosting their potency might be the best thing for you, since it passively grants you damage (sort of), vs requiring you to work harder and do more skills etc.

Abigail wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

Checked how / with who, may I ask? I'm genuinely curious.

Not to derail the thread but agreed, the last official stance from ZOS was that macro keyboards etc. to set up scripted patterns were not okay. That was like three years ago though.

Thank you for contacting the Elder Scrolls Online. The use of macro's is perfectly legal. There is nothing wrong with using Macros, if you have a mouse or keyboard that can be set up with macro's and you wish to use them feel free. If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to reply to this email.

Warm Regards, Jon
The Elder Scrolls Support Team.

Interesting...

Still, I would refrain from openly advertising that you use macros. It's possible Jon was misinformed, or maybe another trigger happy employee may still take umbrage at your use of them regardless of what others said, or whatever. I would caution you against taking that reply as a shield against action on your account by ZOS; people have been (temp) banned for less. Proceed at your own risk, and all that. Just trying to look out for you. ;P

Also, ZOS aside, a great many players who lack empathy for people with different needs/abilities will get real ****ty with you about using macros, calling you a cheater , a noob, a no-good scoundrel who lacks honor, and whatnot. Hopefully you don't encounter these people, but I promise you they're around.

Abigail

@GreenHere

I hear you on all counts.

Your armor suggestion is precisely why I started this thread, and I shall follow up.

Re: macros, I've never had anyone question my playing, possibly because I've never tried to animation cancel, which I could do, but I'd be forever making adjustments because of lag/latency. With my limitations that would not be worth the effort. I don't usually accept dual requests because even with a well-tuned macro I lose unless the other player just screws up royally. The biggest drawback of macros is that even when they're preempted they will usually activate a couple more skills -- not good when you need a buff or want to lay down an aoe in a hurry. Switching bars is also a lot slower than doing so manually because the macro, if not slowed down will try to fire unintended skills. There are other drawbacks, like trying to include DOTs, remembering the macro wants to complete the routine even after you've stopped it. I suppose these can be overcome, but at my age it's not worth the effort. So, what I end up with is an imperfect rotation comprising 3 non-dot skills interspersed by LA and ending in a HA. If that's cheating, I can hardly see the advantage. If there were anyway I could reliably mash buttons, I'd do that instead. Or trying to manually hold down the left mouse button for 2 seconds -- sometimes yes, mostly no. You should see me trying to drag items out of my inventory, it's an all-day process. So, if someone thinks I've got unfair advantage, they really need to try playing this game while wearing a pair of thick woolen mittens.

That said, I've seen suspicious behavior -- characters camped over a node for half a day, making unusual movements at set intervals; or the guy at a dolmen who's there for hours, running through rotations even when the dolmen is down, and never moving from one spot.

zaria

Turelus wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Just want to pop in and suggest you redact the part about using macros. While I get why you use them, you should not admit it. It's against the ToS, and you're putting your account in jeopardy. Strongly advise you to remove that admission asap.

Actually, I have checked and using them with a Razor Naga mouse is okay. In any event, I have no choice; no macro no play.

Checked how / with who, may I ask? I'm genuinely curious.

Not to derail the thread but agreed, the last official stance from ZOS was that macro keyboards etc. to set up scripted patterns were not okay. That was like three years ago though.

Realistic in PvE you will get away with it, the bosses will not report you.
However macros works very well on dummies, however they lock you in an rotation. You want to block, wait to macro is done
So in PvP you will get killed and your killer will not report you either, yes you might run some gank or bomb stuff. might ask for trouble.

NyxWrench

I'd second GreenHere's suggestion of Torug's Pact. Aside from the reasons he gave, there's the important point that weapon enchantment damage doesn't depend on your stats (max magicka and spell damage), but will always give a constant result (relative to CP, since CP does affect it). That means that it maintains its usefulness even when you're building more defensively, and have lower magicka and/or spell damage.

Of course it does not scale up with the 5-piece bonus from Queen's Elegance. Queen's Elegance meshes well with Julianos, but doesn't have any real synergy with Torug's. Instead you'd probably want something like Spinner's (increased penetration) to go with Torug's.

GreenHere

NyxWrench wrote: »

I'd second GreenHere's suggestion of Torug's Pact. Aside from the reasons he gave, there's the important point that weapon enchantment damage doesn't depend on your stats (max magicka and spell damage), but will always give a constant result (relative to CP, since CP does affect it). That means that it maintains its usefulness even when you're building more defensively, and have lower magicka and/or spell damage.

Of course it does not scale up with the 5-piece bonus from Queen's Elegance. Queen's Elegance meshes well with Julianos, but doesn't have any real synergy with Torug's. Instead you'd probably want something like Spinner's (increased penetration) to go with Torug's.

Very good points! Which I failed to mention. +1 for exactly what Nyx has written here!

Aside from already owning a set of Elegance, it does you no particular favors with Torug's and you would indeed be better off with something like Spinner's.

In fact, I would not be surprised at all if Spinner's itself ended up making your heavy attacks stronger than Elegance if you're not already running high Spell Penetration. Especially on bosses/tougher targets. Their armor (thus, your penetration) values are the primary obstacle to you dealing damage to them.

Not sure if it's changed in recent patches (I doubt it, but haven't kept up with such details), but it used to be commonly held that Penetration was the #1 most efficient way to boost your damage, up until you reached the target's armor rating. Overland enemies and the like I believe are in the 12K armor range, while veteran/bosses/etc. are just above 18K (going from memory).

@Abigail, if at all possible, I highly recommend downloading the PTS. It allows you to easily switch these sets in and out to test at will, and you can have a certain amount of nerdy fun playing with such things without actually having to spend your "real" resources on them. Most all sets in the game come in these containers that you can just open and take from on the fly, so testing is a breeze. Just gotta go craft Crafted Sets (like Torug's, TBS, etc.) stuff yourself, but that's not too hard -- you can get infinite materials on the PTS too. Worth looking into at least, imo. I use the PTS for exactly the kind of stuff we're discussing in your thread way more than any other reason. It's basically just like the live server you normally play on, but with infinite playground mode available. (No invulnerability, instagib, or the like, though -- you're still in the "same game" so to speak.)

NyxWrench

GreenHere wrote: »

In fact, I would not be surprised at all if Spinner's itself ended up making your heavy attacks stronger than Elegance if you're not already running high Spell Penetration. Especially on bosses/tougher targets. Their armor (thus, your penetration) values are the primary obstacle to you dealing damage to them.

Not sure if it's changed in recent patches (I doubt it, but haven't kept up with such details), but it used to be commonly held that Penetration was the #1 most efficient way to boost your damage, up until you reached the target's armor rating. Overland enemies and the like I believe are in the 12K armor range, while veteran/bosses/etc. are just above 18K (going from memory).

What I've read is that overland mobs (other than world bosses) have 9100 resistance, and dungeon mobs (and world bosses) have 18,200. Assuming that's correct...

Overland mobs are easy, and using a light armor set is fine. If you use Torug's + Spinners, overall you end up with:

Start: 9,100 resistance
Destruction staff passive: -10% = 8,190
Spinner 5-piece (purple): -3329 = 4,861
Light armor passive: -4884 = -23

So with light armor, you're over the max you need while using Spinner's.

Contribution from Spinner's when using light armor: +7.1%
Contribution from Spinner's when using heavy armor: +8.0%


Dungeon mobs and world bosses start at 18,200. Assuming heavy armor here:

Start: 18,200 resistance
Destruction staff passive: -10% = 16,380
Spinner 5-piece (purple): -3329 = 13,051

Contribution from Spinner's when using heavy armor: +9.9%


Note that penetration won't help your pets, but then neither does Queen's Elegance. The choice between Queen's Elegance and Spinner's depends pretty much entirely on whether your light and heavy attacks are doing more than 50% of your total non-pet damage.

For my own Torug's-based non-pet set, light and heavy attacks make up 16%-19% of my total damage. I've seen demos where light attacks make up up to 22%-24% of all damage (with no heavy attacks). Anything in the 15%-25% range is only going to get a bonus of 3%-5% to your total damage due to Queen's Elegance, compared to the 7%-10% to overall damage with Spinners' penetration (not counting pets).

For a pet build, there's the usual recommendation of Necropotence, which seems like a reasonably good alternative to Queen's Elegance since you're only giving up the 126 damage for a ton of magicka that will help both your own damage and the pets' damage. I'm not sure how it would compare overall to Spinner's, though. It depends on how much of your damage comes from pets, vs personal damage.