Ebon Armory vs. Lunar Bastion

Datolite

I want your opinions on these two sets when compared, especially considering the recent changes to shields. I haven’t tested them against each other, but am planning to.

The only difference for the 4pc is that Lunar has 5% damage resist vs. Ebon's 1206 hp. Those are both nice for a tank, though I haven’t done the math as to which might benefit most. As for the 5pc…

-Ebon provides 1118 hp indefinitely for up to 12 people within 28 meters.
-Lunar gives a 2399 hp shield every 2 seconds for everyone within 8 meters.

So what we have is an obvious small vs. wide net scenario, where Ebon is meant for larger areas while Lunar is meant to keep the group tight. Besides that, there are a few points to consider:
-Up-time is 100% for Ebon and maybe closer to 80%-90% for Lunar with a decent healer.
-Ebon's 5pc hp bonus is non-negotiable.
-Lunar's 5pc is raised by Bastion CP.
-Lunar can be further strengthened by Lord Warden's resistance buff (among others), which is also 8 meters wide (and both procs have a very distinct area of protection).
-Both can technically cover an entire trial group, but Ebon has a much wider AoE.
-Ebon has better potential for tanks using hp-based shields due to the 2300+ hp it provides.
-Lunar takes some synergy (literally) between tank and healer, while Ebon is equip-and-forget.

Some questions raised:
-Would an aggressive healer make better use of the 1118 hp every 2 secs compared to a self-refreshing 2399 shield?
-Is Lunar affected by your magicka pool?
-What kind of synergies are good with these sets (ie. Brands of Imperium, Igneous Shield, Replenishing Barrier with Lunar)?

Any insightful answers are welcome!

GimpyPorcupine

Tank activating a healer-cast Bone Shield would double-stack shields for six seconds, could be nice in anticipation of a big hit. And the shield from the Synergy is based off the max health of the person who activates it, IIRC.

Datolite

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Tank activating a healer-cast Bone Shield would double-stack shields for six seconds, could be nice in anticipation of a big hit. And the shield from the Synergy is based off the max health of the person who activates it, IIRC.

This is the kind of answer I come here for. Bravo sir...

GimpyPorcupine

I thought a lot about this set (Lunar Bastion), because it looks really good on paper. Since the change in Synergy activation (standard GCD for activating, 20-second cool down for activating the same, or Shards/Orbs), I thought that there'd need to be enough variety of available synergies for the tank to hit one every 6-8 seconds to maintain 100% uptime. Purify, Shards/Orbs, Conduit are usually plentiful, but it requires the wearer to pace himself, and not activate every one he sees but rather wait until the Lunar shields are almost expired.

If a tank and healer play frequently together (looking at you couples ) then the healer could equip Twilight Remedy and spend a little (lot) less effort on healing the tank.

If I were committing to Lunar Bastion, I'd probably transmute at least 1 and maybe all 3 jewelry pieces to Harmony.

Datolite

Did a little math. With Bastion and 3x Harmony the shield would be close to 3.7k.

That synergy CD really kills the up-time though. What's the standard GCD at?

TheNightflame

buff twilight's minor force to 20 seconds!

Datolite

Did a test run in a couple of vet dungeons with Lunar/Imperium/Lord on a magplar with bone shield/radiant ward. The shields are great. 2.7k every 2 secs when it procs, on top of 14k every 15 secs. The difficult part is, indeed, timing the synergies (or in some newbs' cases, learning what a synergy is and why pressing X is important). This might be a very viable build if paired with an ebon/torug tank in trials.

Silver_Strider

Wasn't one of the negatives of Lunar Bastion that it only procced on 6 people at any given time?
Was that changed or am I just remembering wrong?

Royaji

Simple thing: in trials where Lunar Bastion might actually be helpful it is completely ruined by a small 8 meter radius. 8 meters is just too small. Consider that 4 of those are behind so usually you only have 4 meters in front. Useless in most fights in HoF, some in MoL, AS and CR. In places where people actually stack close enough to the tank - AA, HRC, SO it is not needed. We have outleveled those trials long ago, incoming damage is a joke.

Kinda the same story in dungeons. The stack and burn ones are easy enough to not care about Lunar, especially with the whole synergy juggling. And the newest ones require too much movement for Lunar to be useful or force tank to position separately.

Datolite

Royaji wrote: »

Simple thing: in trials where Lunar Bastion might actually be helpful it is completely ruined by a small 8 meter radius. 8 meters is just too small. Consider that 4 of those are behind so usually you only have 4 meters in front. Useless in most fights in HoF, some in MoL, AS and CR. In places where people actually stack close enough to the tank - AA, HRC, SO it is not needed. We have outleveled those trials long ago, incoming damage is a joke.

Kinda the same story in dungeons. The stack and burn ones are easy enough to not care about Lunar, especially with the whole synergy juggling. And the newest ones require too much movement for Lunar to be useful or force tank to position separately.

While this is definitely worth considering, and I agree it's too small to be fully effective, you are confusing radius with diameter. Radius means there are 8 meters in front and behind you for a diameter of 16 meters.

I have seen the AoE of 8 meter radius procs. It's not great for the kind of fights you mention, but it's certainly not useless. During the vet dungeons I was always close enough to at least 2 of my allies to give them the shield.

That being said, it could be bigger....

kringled_1

What you describe is a 8m diameter (4 radius) but apart from that technicality, I agree completely. The range on Ebon means it's up almost all the time for all group members.

Royaji

Datolite wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Simple thing: in trials where Lunar Bastion might actually be helpful it is completely ruined by a small 8 meter radius. 8 meters is just too small. Consider that 4 of those are behind so usually you only have 4 meters in front. Useless in most fights in HoF, some in MoL, AS and CR. In places where people actually stack close enough to the tank - AA, HRC, SO it is not needed. We have outleveled those trials long ago, incoming damage is a joke.

Kinda the same story in dungeons. The stack and burn ones are easy enough to not care about Lunar, especially with the whole synergy juggling. And the newest ones require too much movement for Lunar to be useful or force tank to position separately.

While this is definitely worth considering, and I agree it's too small to be fully effective, you are confusing radius with diameter. Radius means there are 8 meters in front and behind you for a diameter of 16 meters.

I have seen the AoE of 8 meter radius procs. It's not great for the kind of fights you mention, but it's certainly not useless. During the vet dungeons I was always close enough to at least 2 of my allies to give them the shield.

That being said, it could be bigger....

My bad. Completely forgot it is indeed 8 meter radius. Lord Warden ring is so darn small that I assume it is 8 meters in diameter. And same with Lunar. It's not terrible but it really needs to be at least double that to be more useful.

Datolite

Royaji wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Simple thing: in trials where Lunar Bastion might actually be helpful it is completely ruined by a small 8 meter radius. 8 meters is just too small. Consider that 4 of those are behind so usually you only have 4 meters in front. Useless in most fights in HoF, some in MoL, AS and CR. In places where people actually stack close enough to the tank - AA, HRC, SO it is not needed. We have outleveled those trials long ago, incoming damage is a joke.

Kinda the same story in dungeons. The stack and burn ones are easy enough to not care about Lunar, especially with the whole synergy juggling. And the newest ones require too much movement for Lunar to be useful or force tank to position separately.

While this is definitely worth considering, and I agree it's too small to be fully effective, you are confusing radius with diameter. Radius means there are 8 meters in front and behind you for a diameter of 16 meters.

I have seen the AoE of 8 meter radius procs. It's not great for the kind of fights you mention, but it's certainly not useless. During the vet dungeons I was always close enough to at least 2 of my allies to give them the shield.

That being said, it could be bigger....

My bad. Completely forgot it is indeed 8 meter radius. Lord Warden ring is so darn small that I assume it is 8 meters in diameter. And same with Lunar. It's not terrible but it really needs to be at least double that to be more useful.

I think that's the tradeoff though, because Ebon is such a miniscule buff that only really makes a difference in trials with 12 people, whereas Lunar (paired with Imperium and Warden) would be stupid OP if it was 28 meters.

I'd rather have to be strategic with a small sphere of (basically) invincibility than have the sets watered down to apply to more people.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

I used Lunar Bastion on DK tank with Brands Imperium and Lord Warden, its good that's Lord Warden shows blue circle where is party will get shields from both sets and from my Fragmented Shield and Bone Shield, in Oh *** situations I can drop Replenishing Barrier.
Its good combinations in tight rooms and narrow ways and when there is synergy providing team.

I use Cinder Storm and Resolving Vigor on top so, if all goes good I get comfy house for melee DD where they are protected by 20K+ stack of Lord Warden hardened shields, and good healing from Vigor and Cinder Storm improved by Bone Surge Major Vitality and Fragmented Shield Major Mending, if Ring of Preservation wasn't so costly I would drop it on top as well as it will make my comfy house into little fortress.

But if there is a lot of more synergy I better use Alkosh, if there is newcomer players who rarely activate synergy Bone Surge lose effectiveness, and in large open areas teammates tend to spread out, running out of my little home, that's make sad panda argonian, in such cases I switch to Bahraha's Curse.

raj72616a

my experience tanking vet dungeons with pug is that, half of the groups won't be giving you any synergy to proc your lunar bastion or alkosh.

Supportic

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Wasn't one of the negatives of Lunar Bastion that it only procced on 6 people at any given time?
Was that changed or am I just remembering wrong?

You are right. The set is saying "to you and your allies" which is missleading. The same text appears in the ability "Combat Prayer" or "Healing Springs". Lunar bastion can target up to max. of 6 players.

Datolite

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

I used Lunar Bastion on DK tank with Brands Imperium and Lord Warden, its good that's Lord Warden shows blue circle where is party will get shields from both sets and from my Fragmented Shield and Bone Shield, in Oh *** situations I can drop Replenishing Barrier.
Its good combinations in tight rooms and narrow ways and when there is synergy providing team.

I use Cinder Storm and Resolving Vigor on top so, if all goes good I get comfy house for melee DD where they are protected by 20K+ stack of Lord Warden hardened shields, and good healing from Vigor and Cinder Storm improved by Bone Surge Major Vitality and Fragmented Shield Major Mending, if Ring of Preservation wasn't so costly I would drop it on top as well as it will make my comfy house into little fortress.

But if there is a lot of more synergy I better use Alkosh, if there is newcomer players who rarely activate synergy Bone Surge lose effectiveness, and in large open areas teammates tend to spread out, running out of my little home, that's make sad panda argonian, in such cases I switch to Bahraha's Curse.

Ring of Preservation has such good potential for the house dynamic, but is just ruined by the cost and the 5m radius. Definitely needs an overhaul.

Also when it comes to pugs, I only really do easy dungeons with them so moot point. If they don't know how to synergize then I'm not going into vet Scalecaller with them lol.

GimpyPorcupine

Apologies in advance for the necro, but...

I've been running Lunar/Torug's on a DK while leveling Undaunted, and I'm very pleased with the results. The Murkmire change to damage shields so that they are now enhanced by resistances has made this set even stronger. (I'd strongly suggest looking at this thread by @paulsimonps because it explains in detail how damage mitigation works with shields.)

I have found it to be pretty easy, even in PUGs to maintain 100% uptime on the LB shield proc, which in turn makes the healer's job much easier.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I thought a lot about this set (Lunar Bastion), because it looks really good on paper. Since the change in Synergy activation (standard GCD for activating, 20-second cool down for activating the same, or Shards/Orbs), I thought that there'd need to be enough variety of available synergies for the tank to hit one every 6-8 seconds to maintain 100% uptime. Purify, Shards/Orbs, Conduit are usually plentiful, but it requires the wearer to pace himself, and not activate every one he sees but rather wait until the Lunar shields are almost expired.

If a tank and healer play frequently together (looking at you couples ) then the healer could equip Twilight Remedy and spend a little (lot) less effort on healing the tank.

If I were committing to Lunar Bastion, I'd probably transmute at least 1 and maybe all 3 jewelry pieces to Harmony.

I really loved using the twilight set... I didn't need an excuse to throw out orbs or shards all the time like a crazed buffoon. But with olorime and jorvuld I just can't justify it anymore. I have eight spare fingers that are ringless... Now if ZOS could let me slot twilight rings on them....

kojou

I use Lunar. It is great for keeping your melee alive through ground DoTs.

I pair it with Troll King and Alkosh. Between Nord, vigor, Lunar, and Troll king my tank is really hard to kill and giving all that to the Melee DPS is a nice bonus. Especially if I am going 1 tank and 3 DPS err... Please don't nerf me ZoS I love healers .

Krayl

Ebon all the way. Bastion's a tiny shield, bad area of effect. 1118 HP from ebon might seem small but you're giving a net gain of roughly 13.5K HP to your trial group. You're allowing all your dps to run one extra stam/mag glyph on their gear and still have good HP, so it's a net DPS gain there. Bastion is situational, but as pointed out, the situations where it would be most useful are in encounters that by the stack and burn design are already pretty trivial when everyone is over 30k dps without BiS gear or great rotations.

Tasear

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Wasn't one of the negatives of Lunar Bastion that it only procced on 6 people at any given time?
Was that changed or am I just remembering wrong?

This sounds like something that should be checked and changed if possible.