Sorcs feel like sorcs again

Illuvatarr

I will be the first one to admit when I am wrong. This was an excellent patch by the developers and my apologies to them for my derisive comments prior. Sorcs need a few more tweaks (starting with their pets taking one slot each) and the class should be good to go.

I have not had this much fun playing my sorc in quite some time. I will be the first one to say I stand corrected.

Keep em coming.

RebornV3x

nice troll thread but 9/10 its a bit to obvious so far from what little i played on my PC account Sorcs are garbage went back to my xbox one just to get another week or 2 with a decent sorc i'm not happy at all with the patch this might be worse than Morrowind

Illuvatarr

Actually am completely serious. Everyone took a survivability hit. Stam classes especially. Sorcs no longer need or can facetank. Zooming around again shocking people. It’s a ton of fun.

TheYKcid

How, specifically, did Murkmire improve Sorcs' ability to "zoom around"?

What specific improvement to Sorcs' survival toolkit removed the need for them to be able to facetank?

ak_pvp

Oh boi just wait until you run into the enchant cooldown builds. Its like shieldbreaker on roids.

Illuvatarr

TheYKcid wrote: »

How, specifically, did Murkmire improve Sorcs' ability to "zoom around"?

What specific improvement to Sorcs' survival toolkit removed the need for them to be able to facetank?

Ball of Lightning and Boundless Storm both on your bar with empowered ward.

Been doing 1vX all night with this, using matriarch to burst heal when needed. You cant just stand there and facetank people.

Set up is shacklebreaker/lich (all impen) with domihaus shoulders and ilambris hat. Thinking of trading in hat/domihaus both for shadowrend.

bar is daedric prey/frags/fury/destructive reach (lightning)/matriarch
bar 2 is ball lightning/boundless storm/matriarch/power surge/empowered ward.

Never run out of magicka and was kiting several people earlier. If they get on me, I die. It should be that way. But frankly, not everyone is moving at light speed anymore (in fact I have been one of two or three people tonight who I have seen moving around fast non stop) so getting ganked has not happened but three times this evening.

The issue is pet survivability needs a major buff in pvp. However, these most recent speed changes were very very good (the damage shield changes were over the top). I can't believe I am saying it. I was 100 percent opposed to them prior to the patch.

Kikke

Even before the patch I did not need shields to kill scrubs in cyro..

Killing scrubs is the one thing we do easy.

Anyhow pre Nerfmire we still did not stand a chance against the meta stam builds played by anyone with a minimum knowledge of game mechanics.

And this patch did nothing for that, or rather. It made it worse!

But hey, that's just my opinion comming from maining my sorc for four years.

hero2zer0

Not sure if this thread is bait or not (99% sure it is actually bait, Will bite anyway) but - how can you sustain the pet heal (which costs alot of mag), boundless spam (expedition only lasts 4 secs now, costs alot of mag) and BoL which has a fatigue mechhanism? Also, a single shield (and not the stronger one at that) will last no more than 2 gcd, forcing you on the defensive most of the time. I’m not saying you’re lying, so what happend is you played against below average players.

Not saying your playstayle is bad, heck I’ve tried it myself last night, and what annoyed me the most was when the pet died I was basically either forced to streak 3-4 time away or just outright die.

Illuvatarr

hero2zer0 wrote: »

Not sure if this thread is bait or not (99% sure it is actually bait, Will bite anyway) but - how can you sustain the pet heal (which costs alot of mag), boundless spam (expedition only lasts 4 secs now, costs alot of mag) and BoL which has a fatigue mechhanism? Also, a single shield (and not the stronger one at that) will last no more than 2 gcd, forcing you on the defensive most of the time. I’m not saying you’re lying, so what happend is you played against below average players.

Not saying your playstayle is bad, heck I’ve tried it myself last night, and what annoyed me the most was when the pet died I was basically either forced to streak 3-4 time away or just outright die.

I have 2300 magicka regen with empowered ward up and lich adds 1k under 33 percent. Never run out of magicka and dont get hit. I will say that Ball Lightning needs to absorb physical damage as well, but that can still be dodged and/or blocked. Actually been playing against strong players all night. They just arent moving at light speed anymore. Made a ton of difference.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Illuvatarr wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

How, specifically, did Murkmire improve Sorcs' ability to "zoom around"?

What specific improvement to Sorcs' survival toolkit removed the need for them to be able to facetank?

Ball of Lightning and Boundless Storm both on your bar with empowered ward.

Been doing 1vX all night with this, using matriarch to burst heal when needed. You cant just stand there and facetank people.

Set up is shacklebreaker/lich (all impen) with domihaus shoulders and ilambris hat. Thinking of trading in hat/domihaus both for shadowrend.

bar is daedric prey/frags/fury/destructive reach (lightning)/matriarch
bar 2 is ball lightning/boundless storm/matriarch/power surge/empowered ward.

Never run out of magicka and was kiting several people earlier. If they get on me, I die. It should be that way. But frankly, not everyone is moving at light speed anymore (in fact I have been one of two or three people tonight who I have seen moving around fast non stop) so getting ganked has not happened but three times this evening.

The issue is pet survivability needs a major buff in pvp. However, these most recent changes were very very good. I can't believe I am saying it. I was 100 percent opposed to them prior to the patch.

There you go! You just gave them a reason to start another "Nerf Sorc Thread"! /s

TheYKcid

Illuvatarr wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

How, specifically, did Murkmire improve Sorcs' ability to "zoom around"?

What specific improvement to Sorcs' survival toolkit removed the need for them to be able to facetank?

Ball of Lightning and Boundless Storm both on your bar with empowered ward.

Been doing 1vX all night with this, using matriarch to burst heal when needed. You cant just stand there and facetank people.

Set up is shacklebreaker/lich (all impen) with domihaus shoulders and ilambris hat. Thinking of trading in hat/domihaus both for shadowrend.

bar is daedric prey/frags/fury/destructive reach (lightning)/matriarch
bar 2 is ball lightning/boundless storm/matriarch/power surge/empowered ward.

Never run out of magicka and was kiting several people earlier. If they get on me, I die. It should be that way. But frankly, not everyone is moving at light speed anymore (in fact I have been one of two or three people tonight who I have seen moving around fast non stop) so getting ganked has not happened but three times this evening.

The issue is pet survivability needs a major buff in pvp. However, these most recent changes were very very good. I can't believe I am saying it. I was 100 percent opposed to them prior to the patch.

How does that in any way make you mobile? Every stam build has access to 4s of major expedition on-demand via Quick Cloak or bow rolls. The former costs less resources and is attached to an incredibly strong buff, while the latter doesn't require a GCD and can be weaved-into other skills for quicker combos.

Meanwhile you have limited-to-no options for snaring them, while they conversely have plenty.

Gapclosers will be making their way onto more people's bars with the change to speed pots. 1 gapcloser = 1 streak nullified, except gapclosers don't have a stacking cost.

BoL is great against ranged mag builds specifically, bad against anything else. Losing the option to streak-through and stun multiple enemies means you can't drop pressure effectively when outnumbered.

I've always run streak+boundless+empowered on my bars, so I'm well aware of what the setup is and isn't capable of. And I have a sneaking suspicion you're grossly overestimating the calibre of the players in your "1vXs".

Take the build to Stormhaven/Bergama or wherever the duelling scene on your platform is situated and prove us wrong, though. If you're on PCNA I'd be happy to be personally involved.

Illuvatarr

TheYKcid wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

How, specifically, did Murkmire improve Sorcs' ability to "zoom around"?

What specific improvement to Sorcs' survival toolkit removed the need for them to be able to facetank?

Ball of Lightning and Boundless Storm both on your bar with empowered ward.

Been doing 1vX all night with this, using matriarch to burst heal when needed. You cant just stand there and facetank people.

Set up is shacklebreaker/lich (all impen) with domihaus shoulders and ilambris hat. Thinking of trading in hat/domihaus both for shadowrend.

bar is daedric prey/frags/fury/destructive reach (lightning)/matriarch
bar 2 is ball lightning/boundless storm/matriarch/power surge/empowered ward.

Never run out of magicka and was kiting several people earlier. If they get on me, I die. It should be that way. But frankly, not everyone is moving at light speed anymore (in fact I have been one of two or three people tonight who I have seen moving around fast non stop) so getting ganked has not happened but three times this evening.

The issue is pet survivability needs a major buff in pvp. However, these most recent changes were very very good. I can't believe I am saying it. I was 100 percent opposed to them prior to the patch.

How does that in any way make you mobile? Every stam build has access to 4s of major expedition on-demand via Quick Cloak or bow rolls. The former costs less resources and is attached to an incredibly strong buff, while the latter doesn't require a GCD and can be weaved-into other skills for quicker combos.

Meanwhile you have limited-to-no options for snaring them, while they conversely have plenty.

Gapclosers will be making their way onto more people's bars with the change to speed pots. 1 gapcloser = 1 streak nullified, except gapclosers don't have a stacking cost.

BoL is great against ranged mag builds specifically, bad against anything else. Losing the option to streak-through and stun multiple enemies means you can't drop pressure effectively when outnumbered.

I've always run streak+boundless+empowered on my bars, so I'm well aware of what the setup is and isn't capable of. And I have a sneaking suspicion you're grossly overestimating the calibre of the players in your "1vXs".

Take the build to Stormhaven/Bergama or wherever the duelling scene on your platform is situated and prove us wrong, though. If you're on PCNA I'd be happy to be personally involved.

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?
2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

TheYKcid

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?

Yes, for a whopping 4m radius. Even less than standard melee attack range. For perspective, people already acknowledge the radius on Boundless is almost negligible, and that's 5m.

2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

Thing is, most meta stam builds run very close to what is otherwise a duelling build in open world (DW/2H heavy armor, bleeds, etc.), with the only difference being one ability or potion swapped-out, if at all.

If you can't at the very least hold your own in a proper duel, you won't win meaningful 1v1s open world, let alone 1vXs.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this. Sorc is my 2nd most-played PvP class, and easily the one I find most fun. And even then I've pretty much given-up on it at this point. I want what's best for the class, and that involves assessing it objectively as well as in relation to the other specs.

I also have extensive experience on the other end, and know how easy it can be to demolish a Sorc with a typical stam build.

Being a contrarian just for the sake of it, and pretending that the class has no issues, doesn't do you or anyone else any favours.

Biro123

I had fun last night too.. but there are glaring issues..

Sustain and bar-space are the number 1 problems with sorc now.. by far. I have a build that can take a bit of damage - but just can't sustain for long without getting clear enough to dark exchange.. And even then really struggles for stam recov to sustain the sustain...
But damage is already poo - there is nothing I can take from to get more sustain.

Changing streak would help - to give longer range and lessen the repeat cast penalty - something needs to happen for bar-space.
I'm only running one shield, don't have an execute, only one heal and need to use pots for major sorcery. Yes, it uses one pet - but the build also REALLY needs a hot, too to really work.. whether from surge or rapid-regen... but there is no space..


But why did I have fun? Well, I could hardly kill anyone with my measily 1.8k spell-damage and 42k mag - unless overload was on.. Then it was fun - and felt like a sorc should. But even then, I saw a DK soak up a full 500 stack of overload, woven with the usual damage abilities - and also other people beating on him... Yeah, his health dropped to half - but was impossible to finish off, and was back up to 100% as soon as overload wore off..

And people still say DK's suck...

Illuvatarr

TheYKcid wrote: »

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?

Yes, for a whopping 4m radius. Even less than standard melee attack range. For perspective, people already acknowledge the radius on Boundless is almost negligible, and that's 5m.

2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

Thing is, most meta stam builds run very close to what is otherwise a duelling build in open world (DW/2H heavy armor, bleeds, etc.), with the only difference being one ability or potion swapped-out, if at all.

If you can't at the very least hold your own in a proper duel, you won't win meaningful 1v1s open world, let alone 1vXs.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this. Sorc is my 2nd most-played PvP class, and easily the one I find most fun. And even then I've pretty much given-up on it at this point. I want what's best for the class, and that involves assessing it objectively as well as in relation to the other specs.

I also have extensive experience on the other end, and know how easy it can be to demolish a Sorc with a typical stam build.

Being a contrarian just for the sake of it, and pretending that the class has no issues, doesn't do you or anyone else any favours.

I sill think the class needs work and I said that. I just think that stamina toons needed speed reduction and that has breathed life back into this game for me. But not in the way you think. The Sorc needs more ways to avoid damage, not soak it up. The class was meant to move around and not get hit. I can move around and escape now like the Sorc was marketed to play. We are on same side here buddy. The class needs work still. Let’s be clear. And It isn’t alone now. Mag wardens and mag blades do as well. Mag dks , on the other hand, are now the most powerful class in the game by leaps and bounds. It isn’t even close. The class should not be able to dps at range without a severe survivability hit.

Illuvatarr

Accidentally posted instead of an edit to prior comment. see above.

Mihael

Illuvatarr wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?

Yes, for a whopping 4m radius. Even less than standard melee attack range. For perspective, people already acknowledge the radius on Boundless is almost negligible, and that's 5m.

2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

Thing is, most meta stam builds run very close to what is otherwise a duelling build in open world (DW/2H heavy armor, bleeds, etc.), with the only difference being one ability or potion swapped-out, if at all.

If you can't at the very least hold your own in a proper duel, you won't win meaningful 1v1s open world, let alone 1vXs.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this. Sorc is my 2nd most-played PvP class, and easily the one I find most fun. And even then I've pretty much given-up on it at this point. I want what's best for the class, and that involves assessing it objectively as well as in relation to the other specs.

I also have extensive experience on the other end, and know how easy it can be to demolish a Sorc with a typical stam build.

Being a contrarian just for the sake of it, and pretending that the class has no issues, doesn't do you or anyone else any favours.

I sill think the class needs work and I said that. I just think that stamina toons needed speed reduction and that has breathed life back into this game for me. But not in the way you think. The Sorc needs more ways to avoid damage, not soak it up. The class was meant to move around and not get hit. I can move around and escape now like the Sorc was marketed to play. We are on same side here buddy. The class needs work still. Let’s be clear. And It isn’t alone now. Mag wardens and mag blades do as well. Mag dks , on the other hand, are now the most powerful class in the game by leaps and bounds. It isn’t even close. The class should not be able to dps at range without a severe survivability hit.

How does a mag dk dps at range

PhoenixGrey

Illuvatarr wrote: »

I will be the first one to admit when I am wrong. This was an excellent patch by the developers and my apologies to them for my derisive comments prior. Sorcs need a few more tweaks (starting with their pets taking one slot each) and the class should be good to go.

I have not had this much fun playing my sorc in quite some time. I will be the first one to say I stand corrected.

Keep em coming.

I think it's a terrible patch overall.

ZOS went overboard with the speed nerfs and made it more zerg friendly.

I would have rather preferred removing cost increase for streak and giving other mag classes a speed option such as a speedy mist and introducing mag speed pots.

Everything is just slow and boring now.

thankyourat

TheYKcid wrote: »

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?

Yes, for a whopping 4m radius. Even less than standard melee attack range. For perspective, people already acknowledge the radius on Boundless is almost negligible, and that's 5m.

2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

Thing is, most meta stam builds run very close to what is otherwise a duelling build in open world (DW/2H heavy armor, bleeds, etc.), with the only difference being one ability or potion swapped-out, if at all.

If you can't at the very least hold your own in a proper duel, you won't win meaningful 1v1s open world, let alone 1vXs.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this. Sorc is my 2nd most-played PvP class, and easily the one I find most fun. And even then I've pretty much given-up on it at this point. I want what's best for the class, and that involves assessing it objectively as well as in relation to the other specs.

I also have extensive experience on the other end, and know how easy it can be to demolish a Sorc with a typical stam build.

Being a contrarian just for the sake of it, and pretending that the class has no issues, doesn't do you or anyone else any favours.

The open world sorc vs dueling build isn't really a sorc exclusive problem. No open world build will be able to compete with a dueling build no matter the class. At most you can just try to kite them to survive. In my opinion though duels have become useless and is not very meaningful anymore because players aren't dueling each other on open world builds. This is also a problem for solo play in general because zergers (groups of 3 or more players) have the ability to run dueling builds and still do well in their group. Where as a solo player doesn't have that option anymore.

BlackMadara

.

usmguy1234

thankyourat wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

1) You do know that Ball Lightning stuns as well, correct?

Yes, for a whopping 4m radius. Even less than standard melee attack range. For perspective, people already acknowledge the radius on Boundless is almost negligible, and that's 5m.

2) You are aware that a dueling spec has nothing to do with open world pvp, correct? I would never take this spec into a duel. Duels are meaningless anyways. Open world pvp is not.

Thing is, most meta stam builds run very close to what is otherwise a duelling build in open world (DW/2H heavy armor, bleeds, etc.), with the only difference being one ability or potion swapped-out, if at all.

If you can't at the very least hold your own in a proper duel, you won't win meaningful 1v1s open world, let alone 1vXs.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this. Sorc is my 2nd most-played PvP class, and easily the one I find most fun. And even then I've pretty much given-up on it at this point. I want what's best for the class, and that involves assessing it objectively as well as in relation to the other specs.

I also have extensive experience on the other end, and know how easy it can be to demolish a Sorc with a typical stam build.

Being a contrarian just for the sake of it, and pretending that the class has no issues, doesn't do you or anyone else any favours.

The open world sorc vs dueling build isn't really a sorc exclusive problem. No open world build will be able to compete with a dueling build no matter the class. At most you can just try to kite them to survive. In my opinion though duels have become useless and is not very meaningful anymore because players aren't dueling each other on open world builds. This is also a problem for solo play in general because zergers (groups of 3 or more players) have the ability to run dueling builds and still do well in their group. Where as a solo player doesn't have that option anymore.

This 100%.