Magicka Sorcerer Shield Nerf?

oMrRust

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

TheValar85

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

yes it was on teh pts as well, including patch notes, so basicly in pve we die like a dry leaf in a fire hurricane. and im not kididing i die instantly all the time. when some pug messes up with the mechanics and my shield no longer gives me maximum protection, and yes it is related to pvp demands. and if anyone says that a lie well goolge it gurl it is confirmed from ZOS it self.

I have kidnly opened a thread and ask ZOS to reverse this change oh BTW dont look for teh overload bar :S gonna burst out of anger and fustration. and you can see ZOS is teh lapdogs for the pvp players.

likecats

Shields got nerfed because of PVE, not PVP.
The devs made a post explaining how shields let you bypass PVE mechanics as well as making healers less useful.

In PVP, shields are really not a problem for any player who is not a PUG.

Caligamy_ESO

And so it begins..

Remember that time in a vet dungeon when we all complained about the magicka dps & healers being able to stay alive through the fight? ...You don't? Oh that's right because it never *** happened.

All hail your new stamina Seventh Legion overlords.

Haashhtaag

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

No it was a nerf because pve healers didn’t feel useful because of shields.

Caligamy_ESO

Haashhtaag wrote: »

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

No it was a nerf because pve healers didn’t feel useful because of shields.

And my PVE healer who uses shields is...? What?

TheValar85

likecats wrote: »

Shields got nerfed because of PVE, not PVP.
The devs made a post explaining how shields let you bypass PVE mechanics as well as making healers less useful.

thats clear BS mate. I am always runnign with a healer and shields dosent make them less usefull at all. they just dont have to worry about much for one person more offten who use shiled and thats a huge relief for teh healers in egneral when it comes to dungeon running with pugs, when bascily half of the group still dont move out of the Sheet or they completly forgot how to dodgerole or simply block. I know a sheet load of healers who are actualy very appreciated when some one in the group is using a shield while he can heal out some of the hopless players in general in dungeons.

So that theroy what teh "devs said" is faild in every term as explanation. And also explain to me why are the PVP forums are full of demanding sroc shield nerfs? Or other sorc related nerfs hm?
And yet we are here at teh full cicrcle runnigning a class again. And gurl if you wanna ask teh question hwo is that ruining a class? Well paly with it yourself including cyrodiil BG and pve enviroment, and you'll see for yoru self.

olsborg

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

TheValar85

olsborg wrote: »

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

thats not true. look up for your self in teh pvp threads, and on streames, and on youtube it was motivated by pvp and i dont even believe a damn thing what teh devs says in a cover story why did teh nerfed, everyone knows who is reading forums or watching pvp related streames or youtubers tehy are all cryied for sorc nerfs. Do your reasearch properly, and dont believe anything what teh devs says as a cower explanation.

AcadianPaladin

As a PvE healer, I assure you that my challenge is boss one-shots - NOT mages with shields. In fact, I love to see my magic dps running shields to make them a bit tougher.

TequilaFire

When do we yell Bingo?

Hurtfan

likecats wrote: »

Shields got nerfed because of PVE, not PVP.
The devs made a post explaining how shields let you bypass PVE mechanics as well as making healers less useful.

In PVP, shields are really not a problem for any player who is not a PUG.

Thanks for clarifying for the PvEers that constantly cry about PvP

It's because healers were basically not needed for dungeons. You just needed a tank and 3 DDs...now you will need a healer with the shield nerf...at least that's ZOS logic

RebornV3x

The shield nerf was mostly for PVE

likecats

TheValar85 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Shields got nerfed because of PVE, not PVP.
The devs made a post explaining how shields let you bypass PVE mechanics as well as making healers less useful.

thats clear BS mate. I am always runnign with a healer and shields dosent make them less usefull at all. they just dont have to worry about much for one person more offten who use shiled and thats a huge relief for teh healers in egneral when it comes to dungeon running with pugs, when bascily half of the group still dont move out of the Sheet or they completly forgot how to dodgerole or simply block. I know a sheet load of healers who are actualy very appreciated when some one in the group is using a shield while he can heal out some of the hopless players in general in dungeons.

So that theroy what teh "devs said" is faild in every term as explanation. And also explain to me why are the PVP forums are full of demanding sroc shield nerfs? Or other sorc related nerfs hm?
And yet we are here at teh full cicrcle runnigning a class again. And gurl if you wanna ask teh question hwo is that ruining a class? Well paly with it yourself including cyrodiil BG and pve enviroment, and you'll see for yoru self.

Its not a theory of what the devs said, they literally made a post to explain why they are nerfing shields in the first place. You can voice your complains with the devs not me, I wasn't behind the changes.

The addition of crit and resistance was PVP motivated, but they mostly balance out. Maybe a small nerf vs medium armor and light armor, but nothing very significant.

Magsorcs are not OP at all in PVP, the forums literally complain about everything. I've played 4 classes extensively, could easily kill magsorc on all 4. It was a bit annoying that penetration and crit became meaningless against shields, but with the crit + resistance change, that should be fixed now without significantly nerfing shields.

jypcy

From the class rep meeting notes for the September meeting (emphasis added):

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer Shields:
We spent at least 30 minutes discussing shields. The gist of ZOS’s explanation to us what that they wanted to even the survivability between Stamina and Magicka (the specific example that a Magicka build could spam shields without paying attention to a Boss was used), ZOS wanted sorcerers to make more difficult decision regarding their class defense rather than just stack Magicka and have large shields, and ZOS feels that shields are quite a potent defense mechanic in that they are both excellent reactive and can be used proactively (something Breath of Life cannot do).

Every rep that spoke remarked that sorcerers already have to make difficult decisions with builds because sustain is an issue and lack of bar space, which means they already have trouble securing legit kills in PvP (i.e. not kill stealing by spamming mage’s wrath). We also noted that making shields so they can be critically hit was already a significant nerf that deserved testing on its own, and that the one-second cast-time will get sorcerers killed in a competitive PvP environment. We also said that ZOS has hit sorcerer offensive capability pretty hard the past year, which makes the sort of build diversity they want harder. They acknowledged this and did more than insinuate that sorcerer offense is going to be reformed in the future (at one point, a dev asked out loud if they could be specific. They could not). We told them without these offensive changes it was asking too much to hit the sorcerers with a nerf to their defense first and make them wait for this vague promise in the future. We also mentioned, numerous times, that the mechanic of cast-times is something that is disliked by many people because it breaks the flow of the fluid and ast paced combat that defines ESO. We also went through a bunch of other various reasons that folks on the forums and discords brought up. In short, we pressed and that’s why it lasted over 30 minutes.

With the changes to resistances, having instant cast damage shields is even going to make them even stronger in PvE. We acknowledged this as a potential issue and agreed some adjustment was going to be needed. ZOS seems to be open to refinements and reforms that match their desired goals. The Devs have indicated they are well aware of the feedback, they saw the memes, they know this is a huge change. Some ideas were bounced around. Someone (I forget who) brought up the possibility of lowering the shields to a desired size for PVE and adjusting Battlespirit so they aren’t useless in PvP. My impression is that ZOS is agreeable to making a different sort of adjustment, but they still want to keep their goals of Stamina Vs. Magicka survivability, want some sort of diversity into how sorcerers defend themselves, they don’t want a Magicka build spamming shields while ignoring PvE mechanics. The Devs ended our conversation with the thought whether or not a morph choice would be well received, that is if one morph had a one-second cast time and you got a large shield and another morph which removed the cast-time, but you’d get a smaller shield (the strengths were not mentioned specifically).

Feel free to check it out yourself. The thread is currently pinned in the Combat and Character Mechanics subforum.

olsborg

TheValar85 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

thats not true. look up for your self in teh pvp threads, and on streames, and on youtube it was motivated by pvp and i dont even believe a damn thing what teh devs says in a cover story why did teh nerfed, everyone knows who is reading forums or watching pvp related streames or youtubers tehy are all cryied for sorc nerfs. Do your reasearch properly, and dont believe anything what teh devs says as a cower explanation.

Ok, so I should disregard what the devs (the people who make changes in this game) sais is the reason for the changes they make and substitute my own reasons and conclusions? hmmkay.... /sarcasm

Hurtfan

jypcy wrote: »

From the class rep meeting notes for the September meeting (emphasis added):

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer Shields:
We spent at least 30 minutes discussing shields. The gist of ZOS’s explanation to us what that they wanted to even the survivability between Stamina and Magicka (the specific example that a Magicka build could spam shields without paying attention to a Boss was used), ZOS wanted sorcerers to make more difficult decision regarding their class defense rather than just stack Magicka and have large shields, and ZOS feels that shields are quite a potent defense mechanic in that they are both excellent reactive and can be used proactively (something Breath of Life cannot do).

Every rep that spoke remarked that sorcerers already have to make difficult decisions with builds because sustain is an issue and lack of bar space, which means they already have trouble securing legit kills in PvP (i.e. not kill stealing by spamming mage’s wrath). We also noted that making shields so they can be critically hit was already a significant nerf that deserved testing on its own, and that the one-second cast-time will get sorcerers killed in a competitive PvP environment. We also said that ZOS has hit sorcerer offensive capability pretty hard the past year, which makes the sort of build diversity they want harder. They acknowledged this and did more than insinuate that sorcerer offense is going to be reformed in the future (at one point, a dev asked out loud if they could be specific. They could not). We told them without these offensive changes it was asking too much to hit the sorcerers with a nerf to their defense first and make them wait for this vague promise in the future. We also mentioned, numerous times, that the mechanic of cast-times is something that is disliked by many people because it breaks the flow of the fluid and ast paced combat that defines ESO. We also went through a bunch of other various reasons that folks on the forums and discords brought up. In short, we pressed and that’s why it lasted over 30 minutes.

With the changes to resistances, having instant cast damage shields is even going to make them even stronger in PvE. We acknowledged this as a potential issue and agreed some adjustment was going to be needed. ZOS seems to be open to refinements and reforms that match their desired goals. The Devs have indicated they are well aware of the feedback, they saw the memes, they know this is a huge change. Some ideas were bounced around. Someone (I forget who) brought up the possibility of lowering the shields to a desired size for PVE and adjusting Battlespirit so they aren’t useless in PvP. My impression is that ZOS is agreeable to making a different sort of adjustment, but they still want to keep their goals of Stamina Vs. Magicka survivability, want some sort of diversity into how sorcerers defend themselves, they don’t want a Magicka build spamming shields while ignoring PvE mechanics. The Devs ended our conversation with the thought whether or not a morph choice would be well received, that is if one morph had a one-second cast time and you got a large shield and another morph which removed the cast-time, but you’d get a smaller shield (the strengths were not mentioned specifically).

Feel free to check it out yourself. The thread is currently pinned in the Combat and Character Mechanics subforum.

In your face PvEers!

mikemacon

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

Davor

TequilaFire wrote: »

When do we yell Bingo?

I was going to. You bet me to it. BINGO!

likecats

mikemacon wrote: »

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

Lol, if they wanted to nerf shields in PVP, why would they go from a change that completely destroyed PVP shields (the cast time change) to a change that deliberately did not affect PVP shields significantly.

They have repeatedly stated that they are changing shields to make magtoons follow PVE mechanics, and their changes reflect that.

I don't necessarily agree with the change, but the nerf was because of PVE not PVP.

jypcy

mikemacon wrote: »

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

Except tmk shields weren’t really all that affected in PvP. I haven’t had access to PTS this cycle, but from what I’ve heard, PvP shields are about the same as before.

Keep in mind that this is ZOS’ game. If something’s not working how they intend it to, even if nobody in the community is complaining about it, they’re entitled to change it.

Juhasow

TheValar85 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

thats not true. look up for your self in teh pvp threads, and on streames, and on youtube it was motivated by pvp and i dont even believe a damn thing what teh devs says in a cover story why did teh nerfed, everyone knows who is reading forums or watching pvp related streames or youtubers tehy are all cryied for sorc nerfs. Do your reasearch properly, and dont believe anything what teh devs says as a cower explanation.

mikemacon

likecats wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

Lol, if they wanted to nerf shields in PVP, why would they go from a change that completely destroyed PVP shields (the cast time change) to a change that deliberately did not affect PVP shields significantly.

They have repeatedly stated that they are changing shields to make magtoons follow PVE mechanics, and their changes reflect that.

I don't necessarily agree with the change, but the nerf was because of PVE not PVP.

LOL because of the outcry

More gratuitous LOL.

Also throw in a Lulz for good measure.

TheValar85

mikemacon wrote: »

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

See? this is how you all should look through situations like this. Becasue whet this guy said are prooven facts, read up for your self on teh forum. No one ever Cyried in PVE about shiled users at all. NO ONE. How every on teh PVP threads there is always some lowbie QQ for a sorc nerfs because tehy cant paly with ther class and teh ycant use logic and strategy how to outsmart a sorcerer. And i dont have to give any proof or evidence for anyone its all over the forum and always the nerfs hitts the sorcerers. these palyers are (i am sorry for this ) are pathetic. Paly with Hello Kitty's Adventure if you cant outsmart a sorcerer in pvp or if you are lacking strategy or logical sense how to do it.

SoLooney

How do shields make healers any less useful? Most healers I talk to prefer if magicka dps use shields cause it makes them tankier and easier to manage healing. Trial healers will never go out of style. Dungeons might be a different story

Who in pve is crying that shields are too strong? Lmao

All I hear in pvp is people whining about shield attackers from sorcs or any other magicka dps

So no, this change was made for pvp. They initially wanted a cast time because they wanted pvpers to decide was defending or attacking was better for certain situations

Mintaka5

TheValar85 wrote: »

I have kidnly opened a thread and ask ZOS to reverse this change oh BTW dont look for teh overload bar :S gonna burst out of anger and fustration. and you can see ZOS is teh lapdogs for the pvp players.

Where is this thread you speak of? I would like to contribute.

TheValar85

Juhasow wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

thats not true. look up for your self in teh pvp threads, and on streames, and on youtube it was motivated by pvp and i dont even believe a damn thing what teh devs says in a cover story why did teh nerfed, everyone knows who is reading forums or watching pvp related streames or youtubers tehy are all cryied for sorc nerfs. Do your reasearch properly, and dont believe anything what teh devs says as a cower explanation.

you cant proove me wrong so stop bicthing with me. look up for your self and then post me dellusion memes.

Jeremy

mikemacon wrote: »

Yeah...I’ve been reading the PTS threads since the Nerfmire shields nerf was introduced. The “we nerfed shields because of PVE...yeah, that’s the ticket! Because, ahhhhh...because healers aren’t feeling appreciated! Yeah! That’s the ticket!” excuse seems a bit...thin.

Everybody with two brain cells to rub together realizes it’s a nerf because of PVP, not PVE.

Literally no one was QQ’ing about shields in PVE.

On the other hand, almost literally every non-sorc was QQ’ing on the PVP forums about “@&$# shield stackers!!”

The “we ahhh...neerfed it because of healers! Yeah! Sure, why not...” seems more than a bit convenient, a hastily cobbled together retroactive justification for what is plainly intended to be a PVP nerf.

If I remember correctly, I believe the developers said the nerf was due to both PvE and PvP. They believed shields in general were too powerful because they provided too great a health boost and they wanted players to have to weigh more defensive options.

Kadoin

oMrRust wrote: »

Now scaling max to 50% of max health..?
I assume this is an attempt for nerf for pvp but the only nerf it's doing for is PVE
Barely any change to the wards in PVP. but in PVE.. would get a 15k damage shield but now max 7k with hardened ward..

It was changed because of PvE. With the changes to block, passive dodging, roll, etc. it should have been predicted that ZOS would eventually take action on shields. I'm honestly not surprised. You would be surprised if you knew just how powerful shield stacking really could become in PvE & PvP with certain builds and in the right conditions. HINT: It's a lot more than you can imagine...

angeleda

TheValar85 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Shieldnerf is motivated by pve, not pvp.

thats not true. look up for your self in teh pvp threads, and on streames, and on youtube it was motivated by pvp and i dont even believe a damn thing what teh devs says in a cover story why did teh nerfed, everyone knows who is reading forums or watching pvp related streames or youtubers tehy are all cryied for sorc nerfs. Do your reasearch properly, and dont believe anything what teh devs says as a cower explanation.

Noone cried about shields... If anything, NBs are what has always been the focal point of the community in terms of "nerf please".. (Which by the way are unnerfable :P because all ZoS staff are casual pugs that main stamNBs)...

therift

TheValar85 wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

Shields got nerfed because of PVE, not PVP.
The devs made a post explaining how shields let you bypass PVE mechanics as well as making healers less useful.

thats clear BS mate. I am always runnign with a healer and shields dosent make them less usefull at all. they just dont have to worry about much for one person more offten who use shiled and thats a huge relief for teh healers in egneral when it comes to dungeon running with pugs, when bascily half of the group still dont move out of the Sheet or they completly forgot how to dodgerole or simply block. I know a sheet load of healers who are actualy very appreciated when some one in the group is using a shield while he can heal out some of the hopless players in general in dungeons.

So that theroy what teh "devs said" is faild in every term as explanation. And also explain to me why are the PVP forums are full of demanding sroc shield nerfs? Or other sorc related nerfs hm?
And yet we are here at teh full cicrcle runnigning a class again. And gurl if you wanna ask teh question hwo is that ruining a class? Well paly with it yourself including cyrodiil BG and pve enviroment, and you'll see for yoru self.

Is this a humor? I'm not sure I get it.