Problem with Dwarven furniture plan drop rate

Saucy_Jack

So in an earlier patch (can't remember which one), an adjustment was made to furniture plan drop rates that basically amounted to "when you're in a certain zone, plans are more likely to drop that come from that zone", i.e. you're more likely to get Alinor plans in Summerset, and more likely to get Hlaalu/Telvanni/Indoril/etc. plans in Vvardenfell, and more likely to get Redguard plans in Alik'r, and Orc plans in Wrothgar, etc. etc. etc.

But there's no overarching province that's purely Dwemer! So as a result, we're relegated to grinding it out in dwarven ruins, where based on my experience the plan drop rates have NOT been adjusted the way the other zones' plan rates have. This is a comparatively easy fix; can it be implemented? I would imagine it'd just be a case of changing some percentage numbers in the loot lists.

Carbonised

Ayleid and Dwarven plans really need to be easier to find, and have their droprate increased. Especially the 4 Dwarven purples that have a significantly lower droprate than the others.
It doesn't need a massive increase, but a small one, to at least make them appear on an entire megaserver more than once in half a year or so ...

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

I don't think that drop rates on those super rare furnishings should be increased for several reasons. First, lore wise, they are supposed to be extremely rare pieces of information from long lost civilisations. So naturally it should be very hard to find them. Second, keeping the drop rate of those pieces low increases their value. So someone that manages to find one of those babies, can feel extremely satisfied for adding it to his/her collection or gaining a large amount of gold by selling it. Third furnishings are flavor or luxyry items, if you prefer, in the game. They are not essential for leveling up or combat so by being extremely rare to find they do not create balance issues between players.
So in conclusion, instead of increasing or decreasing the drop rate of some plans, I think that the entire process of furnishing farming should be reworked. The whole idea of spending hours and hours looting urns in some old dusty tomb or trespassing homes of prestigious furnishing collectors should be put under the umbrealla of a repeatable quest line. Perhaps an idea similar to the coventous countess quest in abah's landing, or the crow friend daily in the brass fortress. Or even a reputation based archeology faction, like the cyrodiilic collections that will send you in those places to loot items for repeatable quests and reward you with home goodies, vouchers and, rarely, those nice purple furnishings. You know, make the grind more fun.

essi2

I'd like to point out that the 'More likely to drop in [Racial Area]' only applies to the vanilla styles atm.

Alinor plans only drop in the Summerset zones/quest areas.

The Great Houses style plans only drop in Vvardenfell.


And there are plenty of Dwemer areas, every Dwemer ruin in the game from Dungeons to Quest areas and sub-zones drop Dwemer plans regardless of which parent zone they belong to.

Carbonised

essi2 wrote: »

I'd like to point out that the 'More likely to drop in [Racial Area]' only applies to the vanilla styles atm.

Alinor plans only drop in the Summerset zones/quest areas.

The Great Houses style plans only drop in Vvardenfell.


And there are plenty of Dwemer areas, every Dwemer ruin in the game from Dungeons to Quest areas and sub-zones drop Dwemer plans regardless of which parent zone they belong to.

I don't think you understand how the loottable and droprate really works.

Before the change in DLC droprates, the amount of Vvardenfell, Alinor or CWC plans you received was miniscule. Most of the recipes you pulled in DLC zones was base game plans. After the change, at least you get DLC themed recipes some of the time, though the majority of plans pulled in DLC zones is still base game. However, the DLC plans did go from being absolute rare unicorns to at least being in circulation on the servers.

Dwemer and Ayleid are exactly similar. The majority of plans you pull from Ayleid and Dwemer delves and dungeons are base game, with only a small amount of them being the Ayleid and Dwemer theme. And even still, the vast majority of these are greens and blues, with only a tiny subset being purples, and out of these, there are 5 or so Dwarven purples that are vastly rarer than all the others.

So it's funny how there are "pleny of Dwemer areas" as you say, yet the handful of Dwemer purples are by far the rarest recipes in the game, along with the Ayleid purples, of a magnitude that's far above any other recipes. Just goes to show how extremely miniscule the droprate is.

Minyassa

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Minyassa wrote: »

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

You can still acquire every single furnishing in the game that can be crafted and that is not BoP by purchasing it from the guild stores, from someone that knows the plan that you need. You don't HAVE to know the furnishing to make nice things in your house just find someone to craft it for you. Same goes for the materials required to cradt those items. If I can't farm them myself I buy them from the guild stores. You can have both exclusivity and nice things for your house, it's not an either/or situation.

Carbonised

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

You can still acquire every single furnishing in the game that can be crafted and that is not BoP by purchasing it from the guild stores, from someone that knows the plan that you need. You don't HAVE to know the furnishing to make nice things in your house just find someone to craft it for you. Same goes for the materials required to cradt those items. If I can't farm them myself I buy them from the guild stores. You can have both exclusivity and nice things for your house, it's not an either/or situation.

In these topics, some apologist like you inevitably finds their way here with comments like "I don't see anything wrong with this at all". Usually it's because they either a) have these recipes and get their knickers in a twist over someone else possibly getting them too, or b) don't have an understanding of how the droprates actually work, and think that "some things need to be rare", without understanding fundamentally just how rare/impossible these recipes are.

There's a world, a universe and a dimension of difference between buying a recipe that costs 5m gold and materials that cost a few thousand, even for the most expensive ones.

The very few times these recipes even surface, they are sold for 2-5m each. Compare that to something which is supposed to be one of the rarest drops in the game, Aetheric Cipher, which sits on a little less than 2m, and which is usually available on at least a handful or more of the server's trade guilds at any given time. Buying the Cipher will eventually make you gold, by selling Ambrosia. The demand for dwarven tables and ayleid bookshelves, however, is very minimal. Feel free to calculate how many ayleid bookcases, minus material cost, you have to sell to even bring back the 4-5m spent on the recipe.

In contrast, even the most rare CWC or Alinor recipes barely crossed 500k. 2 or 3 of the Alinor recipes have been sold for between 500k and 1m, but only after the droprate was nerfed, and people stopped farming them as much. It's not that the Ayleid and Dwarven recipes are somewhat rarer than other rare recipes, they're in an entirely different league. It's like looking at the Blackmarrow table before the increase in droprate, and saying "this is fine" despite it being rarer than every other reicpe in the game, and known by less than perhaps 5 people on an entire megaserver. And it's also not a very interesting table to begin with.

People who are into furniture crafting and housing all agree that something is off with these droprates, and that they should be increased. Everyone else than those belonging in club (a) who of course try and protect they million gold investment by locking everyone else out of the recipes. Maybe you should listen to those many people who actually have experience with the system from within, instead of simply stating an opinion without neither fact nor experience to back it up.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

In these topics, some apologist like you inevitably finds their way here with comments like "I don't see anything wrong with this at all". Usually it's because they either a) have these recipes and get their knickers in a twist over someone else possibly getting them too, or b) don't have an understanding of how the droprates actually work, and think that "some things need to be rare", without understanding fundamentally just how rare/impossible these recipes are.

Since it is so easy for you to patronize me, take some time and read my previous comment where I explain WHY I think drop rate of rare furnishings shouldn't be increased and HOW I believe the entire furnishing farming process could be made more enjoyable.
Also take closer look on the comment you quoted and understand that a furnishing plan from the furnishing itself are two different things.
And since the first comment was about dwarven furnishings in particular let's take a specific example: Diagram: Dwarven Engine, Turbine is a purple dwarven style furnishing with a rare drop rate. At this moment according to Tamriel Trade Center there is only one plan in the guild stores for 140,000 gold. If you think that 140,000 gold for a purple dwarven furnishing plan is too expensive you can search for the furnishing itself. So Dwarven Engine, Turbine has 2 listings at this moment in the guild stores for approximately 15,000 gold each. If you still think that paying 15,000 gold for a purple dwarven furnishing, not a plan is still too expensive, look for the player that crafted the item, contact him and ask him for a better price. You can even ask for more of this furnishing from this person I am sure they will be more than happy to sell them to you.

Carbonised

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

In these topics, some apologist like you inevitably finds their way here with comments like "I don't see anything wrong with this at all". Usually it's because they either a) have these recipes and get their knickers in a twist over someone else possibly getting them too, or b) don't have an understanding of how the droprates actually work, and think that "some things need to be rare", without understanding fundamentally just how rare/impossible these recipes are.

Since it is so easy for you to patronize me, take some time and read my previous comment where I explain WHY I think drop rate of rare furnishings shouldn't be increased and HOW I believe the entire furnishing farming process could be made more enjoyable.
Also take closer look on the comment you quoted and understand that a furnishing plan from the furnishing itself are two different things.
And since the first comment was about dwarven furnishings in particular let's take a specific example: Diagram: Dwarven Engine, Turbine is a purple dwarven style furnishing with a rare drop rate. At this moment according to Tamriel Trade Center there is only one plan in the guild stores for 140,000 gold. If you think that 140,000 gold for a purple dwarven furnishing plan is too expensive you can search for the furnishing itself. So Dwarven Engine, Turbine has 2 listings at this moment in the guild stores for approximately 15,000 gold each. If you still think that paying 15,000 gold for a purple dwarven furnishing, not a plan is still too expensive, look for the player that crafted the item, contact him and ask him for a better price. You can even ask for more of this furnishing from this person I am sure they will be more than happy to sell them to you.

See, your comment shows how little you know about furnishings and plans. Dwarven Turbine is an easy plan, it's not among the 5 hard to get dwarven ones. I have it myself, and got it long ago.
Try search for the recipes for Dwarven Pew or Dwarven Table, Refined and Dwarven Table, Assembly. Or don't bother, they aren't there, and they never have been. My MM across 5 of the largest trade guilds on the server also has 0 sales in all time. The very, very few recipes that do surface are sold in zone chat and privately, for millions.
So if I come across as patronizing to you, maybe it's because you come here with an uninformed opinion without even knowing how the system works. And if I sound annoyed to you, maybe it's because you're like the hundreth person to do so.

Starlock

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

You can still acquire every single furnishing in the game that can be crafted and that is not BoP by purchasing it from the guild stores, from someone that knows the plan that you need. You don't HAVE to know the furnishing to make nice things in your house just find someone to craft it for you. Same goes for the materials required to cradt those items. If I can't farm them myself I buy them from the guild stores. You can have both exclusivity and nice things for your house, it's not an either/or situation.

It doesn’t work that way in reality for thes items, especially on console where we don’t have cheats like this ‘master merchant’ I keep hearing about. Virtually no one sells the finished pieces. In part because virtually no one sells dwemer frames. Which, by the way, also have a hideous drop rate.

You basically have to buy dwemer from crown store. Which really sucks since they yanked the one furnishing pack with little notice.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

I think that I am not making myself clear so I will repeat some things. Out of the thousand furnishings and furnishing plans this game has to offer you are complaining about the rare drop rate of 2. Maybe 5, maybe 10 if we add some other dwarven, ayleid and clockwork ones. I will be generous and say 20 furnishings in total have super rare drop rate. You can still find the furnishings themselves if you want them so much and have the coin to pay, you can still find the plans if you are dedicated to it and farm consistently, you can still make nice things in your house withote those rare ones.
Those 20 furnishings are super rare to find because not all things in games should be easy to obtain.There are scales of rarety. Easy to find, hard to find, rare and super rare. By flattening this scale all you achieve is making the process a plain trip from point A to point B.
Scales and variations also exist in people's opinions. There are not only those who agree with us and those who don't. For instance the fact that I did not set an example whit a furnishing plan that you consider rare, does not mean that I have absolutely no idea on furnishing farming.
So, once again in conclusion, grinding in mmorpgs is part of the genre itself. You can't have the one without the other. In my opinion the best way to approach grinding is by making the process more meaningfull and enjoyable and not by nerfing the drop rates. That's what I said in my first comment. If you have a counter arguement on that I would love to read it and think about it.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Starlock wrote: »

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

You can still acquire every single furnishing in the game that can be crafted and that is not BoP by purchasing it from the guild stores, from someone that knows the plan that you need. You don't HAVE to know the furnishing to make nice things in your house just find someone to craft it for you. Same goes for the materials required to cradt those items. If I can't farm them myself I buy them from the guild stores. You can have both exclusivity and nice things for your house, it's not an either/or situation.

It doesn’t work that way in reality for thes items, especially on console where we don’t have cheats like this ‘master merchant’ I keep hearing about. Virtually no one sells the finished pieces. In part because virtually no one sells dwemer frames. Which, by the way, also have a hideous drop rate.

You basically have to buy dwemer from crown store. Which really sucks since they yanked the one furnishing pack with little notice.

I don't use master merchant, instead I prefer viewing the prices in this site https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/

yodased

I am not certain this still exists, but dwarven ruins were put on a seperate and arbitrary cooldown of 30 minutes when the pages first dropped.

Reason being people were farming the motif way faster than the devs wanted. They slowed the process artifically.

You can test this if you like, go to a dwemer ruin and loot everything. Port to another ruin directly from that ruin and see if most if all containers are empty.

Very easily if it still exists, could be the reason of the dismal droprate

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

while most containers (urns, desks, backpacks etc) reset when you change instances dwemer containers share a unique cd. It is still like this it haven't changed. But the purple furnishing drop cooldown on each character is the same.

prof-dracko

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

I think that I am not making myself clear so I will repeat some things. Out of the thousand furnishings and furnishing plans this game has to offer you are complaining about the rare drop rate of 2. Maybe 5, maybe 10 if we add some other dwarven, ayleid and clockwork ones. I will be generous and say 20 furnishings in total have super rare drop rate. You can still find the furnishings themselves if you want them so much and have the coin to pay, you can still find the plans if you are dedicated to it and farm consistently, you can still make nice things in your house withote those rare ones.
Those 20 furnishings are super rare to find because not all things in games should be easy to obtain.There are scales of rarety. Easy to find, hard to find, rare and super rare. By flattening this scale all you achieve is making the process a plain trip from point A to point B.

Rarity is fine. If there's an Alinor or Breton or Khajiit plan that only drops one in a million times then fair play. But there are dozens of other furnishings in those styles. There's maybe 20 total Dwemer, far less Ayleid. For people looking to make a theme home, locking over half the available furnishings behind arbitrary rarity gates is ridiculous. I've gone through every Dwemer dungeon and delve and I opened every pot and jar I could find. Almost a year into this game with the exploring and I've only ever got 1 blue Dwemer plan. I've never found even a green Ayleid one. That shouldn't be the case.

If it WAS just one or two plans then I'd agree, there'd be no rights for complaint and that's how games go. But when it's a majority of them then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. They addressed this with the CWC, and now I find green and sometimes blue plans with enough regularity to make the grind present, but not disheartening. I even got lucky and found a purple, and judging by the guilds trader so are others. As some of the others have said, there are Dwemer and Ayleid plans that, due to insane drop rates, simply DO NOT EXIST in the traders, simply because no-one is getting them. In a game with thousands of players, does that not strike you as a bit unusual?

Saucy_Jack

Can we get someone to at least take a gander at the relevant drop % numbers to see if anything's off, @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

At the very least, can we get rid of that dumb dwemer-ruin-container arbitrary cooldown that - as far as I know - doesn't exist for any other container type in the game?

Minyassa

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

Hear hear. Some of us don't give a rat's patoot about exclusivity and just want to make nice things for our homes.

You can still acquire every single furnishing in the game that can be crafted and that is not BoP by purchasing it from the guild stores, from someone that knows the plan that you need. You don't HAVE to know the furnishing to make nice things in your house just find someone to craft it for you. Same goes for the materials required to cradt those items. If I can't farm them myself I buy them from the guild stores. You can have both exclusivity and nice things for your house, it's not an either/or situation.

But making them is an important part of my satisfaction. I could buy things in any game. This one has crafting I've learned, so I want to make my own furniture, because it's beyond awesome to walk through my house and know that all of the craftable furniture in a room I made myself. Buying it from someone else is really disappointing. So yeah, I do have to have the recipes for the nice things to make them for my home!

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

But making them is an important part of my satisfaction. I could buy things in any game. This one has crafting I've learned, so I want to make my own furniture, because it's beyond awesome to walk through my house and know that all of the craftable furniture in a room I made myself. Buying it from someone else is really disappointing. So yeah, I do have to have the recipes for the nice things to make them for my home!

I know the feeling. That's why I collect them myself. But at some point I realized that you can't loot all the furnishings in the game when you want them and even if you start farming them in a more dedicated and organised way the process will soon become tiring and seem more like a chore and you will feel the need to do something else in the game. And that's exactly why I said in my first comment that a rework in the way we farm our furnishings must be made. I just believe that the better way to do it is by rethinking the farming process and not by nerfing the drop rate.

angelncelestine

Ayleid purple plans are ridiculously rare. Anyone that says the drop rate is ok has no idea how painful the grind for the recipes are. I have farmed for hours upon hours, leveled 3 toons, and farmed 2 years worth of plunder skulls in Ayleid runes. You would think I would have at least one of them by now, but nope. The only people I know of that have them either have gotten them from plain luck, have brought there whole guild in to farm for hrs, or have a crap ton of gold to buy one if they happen to come up for sale. The drop rate is fine though, right?

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Anyone that says the drop rate is ok has no idea how painful the grind for the recipes are

Who said it's ok? Saying that the rarety of some luxury items should be kept as it is because they are meant to be rare, is different than saying that the drop rate is ok. That's why they are called "rare".