The Veiled Heritance - Internal Consistency

Saphayla

The Veiled Heritance opposes the Aldmeri Dominion.
They claim that the alliance with the Wood Elves and the Khajiit has a negative influence on the Altmer culture and way of life
One of the things associated with the Altmer is they dislike of the Daedra (it means "not our ancestors" in their language, after all)

And yet, the Veiled Heritance has no problem taking aid from the Daedra in order to topple the Dominion (for example Kinlady Estre in Auridon)

Can anyone explain to me how that makes any sense at all?

qbit

Happens all the time; people ally with enemies to take down bigger enemies. The ends justify the means. Etc.

GreenHere

The same way that a giant minotaur can fly and summon elemental atronachs, I reckon.

Same way a werewolf boss can conjure lightning, fire, and frost attacks... with his sword and heavy armor.

Just like Earthgore (the monster set) summons a blood rain, and Blood Spawn encases you in earth.



Consistency and lore friendliness aren't exactly ZOS' strong suit, it seems. A lot of stuff in the game is sort of a stretch, if you pay attention too closely.

Not trying to be dismissive here, but actually want to help you; Try not to focus on such things too much, because you WILL find more and more and more. The game will steadily get less fun for you if you give too much attention to this sort of stuff. There's plenty of it.

GreenHere

qbit wrote: »

Happens all the time; people ally with enemies to take down bigger enemies. The ends justify the means. Etc.

But yeah, the OP's example isn't even odd. Exactly as @qbit said, people make deals with unsavory folks they'd rather not make deals with all the time to get what they want. Bartering power from Daedra is a big part of Elder Scrolls lore in general, really.

Saphayla

GreenHere wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Happens all the time; people ally with enemies to take down bigger enemies. The ends justify the means. Etc.

But yeah, the OP's example isn't even odd. Exactly as @qbit said, people make deals with unsavory folks they'd rather not make deals with all the time to get what they want. Bartering power from Daedra is a big part of Elder Scrolls lore in general, really.

While it's true that people in Tamriel like to make accords with the Daedra, it seems strange for the Veiled Heritance to ally with them. The Altmer think themselves as descendant from the Aedra and should be very hostile towards the Daedra, which is in contrast to the High Elves and the Khajiit. Since the sole purpose of the Veiled Heritance is to stop the Altmer culture from being diluted and destroyed, it seems weird that they'd contradict their religion (one of the most important aspects of culture) pursuing that goal

GreenHere

Saphayla wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

qbit wrote: »

Happens all the time; people ally with enemies to take down bigger enemies. The ends justify the means. Etc.

But yeah, the OP's example isn't even odd. Exactly as @qbit said, people make deals with unsavory folks they'd rather not make deals with all the time to get what they want. Bartering power from Daedra is a big part of Elder Scrolls lore in general, really.

While it's true that people in Tamriel like to make accords with the Daedra, it seems strange for the Veiled Heritance to ally with them. The Altmer think themselves as descendant from the Aedra and should be very hostile towards the Daedra, which is in contrast to the High Elves and the Khajiit. Since the sole purpose of the Veiled Heritance is to stop the Altmer culture from being diluted and destroyed, it seems weird that they'd contradict their religion (one of the most important aspects of culture) pursuing that goal

That's what makes {Spoiler} such a scumbag, and the Veiled Heritance such fools for following them. Not only are they on the wrong side of the fence morally, but they betrayed their people, their nation, and their gods to get what they wanted. Makes them a decent villain, imo.

(Sorry for possibly confusing pronouns. Avoiding names for the sake of those who've yet to go through the Auridon quest line.)

WhiteCoatSyndrome

My impression was that the Daedra worship wasn't something Estre was flaunting - there were a number of quests where you find a town overrun by Daedra and the survivors are expressing relief that she made it out beforehand, not realizing she brought the invasion in the first place. Even the fact she knew magic was kept quiet enough the Queen didn't know.

GreenHere wrote: »

The same way that a giant minotaur can fly and summon elemental atronachs, I reckon.

That makes sense though; recall that Minotaurs in Elderscrolls are descended from the winged bull Morihaus Breath-of-Kyne, who is the offspring of the nature goddess Kynareth. "My line is unbroken!" - obviously it's something Domihaus knows about, so if he's going to throw in his lot with Daedra worshippers anyway, they may as well be Daedra themed after natural elements to underscore the connection.

Bruccius

Saphayla wrote: »

The Veiled Heritance opposes the Aldmeri Dominion.
They claim that the alliance with the Wood Elves and the Khajiit has a negative influence on the Altmer culture and way of life
One of the things associated with the Altmer is they dislike of the Daedra (it means "not our ancestors" in their language, after all)

And yet, the Veiled Heritance has no problem taking aid from the Daedra in order to topple the Dominion (for example Kinlady Estre in Auridon)

Can anyone explain to me how that makes any sense at all?

The end justifies the means.

GreenHere

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

My impression was that the Daedra worship wasn't something Estre was flaunting - there were a number of quests where you find a town overrun by Daedra and the survivors are expressing relief that she made it out beforehand, not realizing she brought the invasion in the first place. Even the fact she knew magic was kept quiet enough the Queen didn't know.

GreenHere wrote: »

The same way that a giant minotaur can fly and summon elemental atronachs, I reckon.

That makes sense though; recall that Minotaurs in Elderscrolls are descended from the winged bull Morihaus Breath-of-Kyne, who is the offspring of the nature goddess Kynareth. "My line is unbroken!" - obviously it's something Domihaus knows about, so if he's going to throw in his lot with Daedra worshippers anyway, they may as well be Daedra themed after natural elements to underscore the connection.

Fair point. They weren't great examples. And quite possibly things that I think are an odd mismatch when I come across them in game are ultimately lore friendly as well. But I think I'm not alone in feeling like some things in the game are poorly themed, and could have been done more uniquely. Feels like a lot of the time ZOS is just like, "idk, man... just throw some daedra in there or somethin... Wanna go to Chipotle for lunch?" At least to me.

Bosses in particular. I sometimes imagine conversations like this take place at ZOS:
Chris: "Well, does he have a fire attack?"
Jim: "No... he's a werewolf... fire isn't really --"
Chris: "WELL, COME ON, JIM!! Obviously they need a fire attack! It's a boss for Pete's sake!!"
Pete: "Actually, we had an interesting idea to have this boss do a sort of --"
Chris: "Shut up, Pete! No one asked for your creative ideas! Jim, you give that boss a fire attack, and also put some annoying plants in there too! Wolves love plants. They go together like peanut butter and miracle whip. Everyone knows that."
Jim: "Um... okay..."


And before someone rains on my one-man parade, and tells me Balorgh is totally lore friendly too; I don't care. The whole dungeon feels like a McDonalds PlayPlace version of a Deadric realm to me. It's some weird neon forest with color coded enemies and you can't even complete the whole dungeon as a werewolf. What kind of stupid **** is that? For real. I feel like it could have been done better. Plus, it was just another off-the-cuff example, which are apparently not my strong suit. :P

Point I was trying to make, is that if you let things like this bother you, the ESO experience is gonna be a lot less enjoyable for it. Sometimes you can dig into the lore a little and find a way for it to make sense. But sometimes it's just better to not think about it too much.

LickingHistSap

Kinlady Estre is a hypocrite is why. She didn't care about Altmeri purity nearly as much as she did taking the throne back for Naemon and herself after Ayrenn showed up and 'stole' it from her. Most in the Heritance wouldn't condone allying with a Daedric Prince, and after Estre dies none of them actually do IIRC.

Ajaxandriel

LickingHistSap wrote: »

Kinlady Estre is a hypocrite is why. She didn't care about Altmeri purity nearly as much as she did taking the throne back for Naemon and herself after Ayrenn showed up and 'stole' it from her.

This!

The theme is just like the Court of Bedlam: people concerned about purity who wreck havoc on this same purity, far harder than what they fought against in the first place.

Like being "more royalist than the king" is the path to darkness ... kind of morals.

Yet I was surprized about the actual Court of Bedlam in the game (with the black and red uniform) which is really daedric, compared to what appeared in the trailer (those with the black and white uniform, who speak "For honor!") but not in the actual story of the Chapter...

Moreover there's the "reflected court" in the solo plot of Razum-dar in the book of the collector box that appears nowhere else (maybe legit because Raz prevents it from the begining).

GreenHere

Way to avoid spoilers, guys. :P

Korah_Eaglecry

Saphayla wrote: »

The Veiled Heritance opposes the Aldmeri Dominion.
They claim that the alliance with the Wood Elves and the Khajiit has a negative influence on the Altmer culture and way of life
One of the things associated with the Altmer is they dislike of the Daedra (it means "not our ancestors" in their language, after all)

And yet, the Veiled Heritance has no problem taking aid from the Daedra in order to topple the Dominion (for example Kinlady Estre in Auridon)

Can anyone explain to me how that makes any sense at all?

It makes perfect sense when you look at those in charge. They want things to stay the same but theyre willing to create all kinds of chaos and upheaval to accomplish it. What better way to show how much of a hypocrite you are by killing your own citizens and destroying their livelihoods in the name of keeping things the same. For The VH to ultimately turn to Dagon and Molag Bal just shows how its not about keeping things the same, its not about protecting the purity of the Altmer society. Its about power and control. All that talk about protecting Altmer Society is just propaganda meant to sweep up as many simple minded Altmer as they could to their cause.

myskyrim26

The Veiled Heritance is not worshiping daedra. They just want to use daedric forces, because they don't have any reliable allies. They are few, thus they can't oppose AD by themselves. Just the same with DIrenni: they used daedra's help a lot, but they didn't worship daedra

veloSylraptor

I don't know why the inconsistencies with Daedra worship is confusing. All the talk about "protecting Altmer purity" and other such nonsense are just propaganda to lure in lower ranking members from reactionaries among the population.

Its just an appeal to the mer who happen to be paranoid about the other races, or simply got their feelings hurt so much when they no longer get to feel (as) special now that other members of the Dominion are considered equal citizens (or at least equal enough to be welcome into Summerset.) Which, you know, is the entire point of empire: to integrate all the diverse peoples living in the empire as citizens and full members of the empire. All the successful empires we can point to as examples are good at this integration to one degree or another.

Razum Dar is just being rational about how this thing is going to go if the Dominion wants to be a bigger power in Tamriel. He clearly doesn't take the Veiled Heritance (and the Court of Bedlam Altmers) seriously (aside from the actual threat they pose) because there is nothing to take seriously about them. They're just common people unfortunately roped in by propaganda spread by some people in power to accumulate more power.

Case in point: Kinlady Estre. Would she have as much success if she didn't go through all the propaganda and just stated the honest goal, "Put me in power!"

[Deleted User]

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