AOE vs Single Target Parse/Target Dummy

Royalthought

Simple request: I would like to see a group target dummy option. Where each target has seperate health and parse score isnt calculated until entire group is killed.

Why: Classes that have great Aoe abilities are currently judged exclusively on single target parses. (moreso pve)

Some classes have great single target kits but lesser Aoe potential.



Which class has the highest aoe potential? Wish we could test and see .

Bladerunner1

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

mocap

i think templar has highest AoE:
- barrage;
- spear;
- sweeps;
- ritual (low damage)

my templar dd/healer hybrid usually do 40-50% group dps in AoE trash fights.

FrancisCrawford

Isn't that a lot like placing multiple target dummies side by side?

Royalthought

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

susmitds

mocap wrote: »

i think templar has highest AoE:
- barrage;
- spear;
- sweeps;
- ritual (low damage)

my templar dd/healer hybrid usually do 40-50% group dps in AoE trash fights.

Stamden/Stamsorc has higher AoE damage than magplar.

Bladerunner1

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Royalthought

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Absolutely some classes do more AOE and some do more ST. But ultimately, it doesnt matter. ST DPS is the limiting factor on pushing score, as that is what takes down bosses. Groups that have enough DPS to push score, dont focus adds. They kill them with Cleave AOE damage.

Numbers for AOE DPS dont matter, they are simply pass/fail. Either you kill the adds with cleave before they can hurt the group, or you need to turn and focus the adds to prevent it. Stam sorcs have the best AOE damage of the stamina toons, but you wont find one in a good raid. Why? Because a NB does more ST damage, and their cleave is enough to kill what needs killed without having to specifically focus things. Sure some adds might need focused, but again, a NB is going to do a better job of it. In other words, all classes pass the test.

End of the day, nobody cares about AOE expcept people that are frustrated with the ST parses and want to inflate them, which is exactly what would happen with AOE dummies. Dont get me wrong, they might be fun, but they really arent going to be useful for end game raiders.

royo

Leaderboard groups absolutely care about AoE in the older trials. Trash speed splits are certainly a thing. However, stam is so far superior to mag in trash that it just further enforces stamblade dominance this patch. Perhaps stamdens will break in next patch.

hedna123b14_ESO

Royalthought wrote: »

Simple request: I would like to see a group target dummy option. Where each target has seperate health and parse score isnt calculated until entire group is killed.

Why: Classes that have great Aoe abilities are currently judged exclusively on single target parses. (moreso pve)

Some classes have great single target kits but lesser Aoe potential.



Which class has the highest aoe potential? Wish we could test and see .

But AoE dps doesnt matter

MashmalloMan

Aoe DPS matters to me and it's why I'd think Stam sorc is by far the strongest aoe class. Not everything in the game is based on trial single target DPS.

I get why it's important and why nightblades for example come out on top, but in comparison. If I can trade 2-4k DPS on a 60k single target DPS test for the best aoe dmg in the game. I'm happy.

See liko's parses comparing NB buffs on all the Stam classes with pts.

In group finder dungeons it's pretty important to me too. VMA is easy as well.

If you are interested in making easy money from skyreach runs, make a Stam sorc. It's hilarious.

Front bar 2x daggers - 1x infused weapon DMG, 1x nirnhoned poison - Deadly cloak - hurricane - beast trap - steel tornado - bound armaments - flawless dawnbreaker.

Back bar VMA infused bow absorb stamina, endless hail - razor caltrops - Crit surge - flex spot - bound armaments - absorption field (DMG morph, forgot name)

Monster set - stormfist / valkyn are both good aoe options. Sets. Use vicious ophidian + something that gives raw DMG/Crit, reach at least 9k pen, or use night mother's gaze with 4k pen and major fracture on everything.

Single target DPS is really all that matters to most people.

idk

First, if you want to see this it is possible on PC with combat metrics addon. We can see our total dps or boss and all addons as well as each individually.

However, it is up to each raid team to set their own standards. A well organized team and guild will have realistic requirements.

Considering the primary interest for a test dummy parse is rather basic entry for a guild or even raid team, doing well in an actual trial fight and not dying being the main interest, Since the dps dummy is so rudimentary I do not see raid leads or guilds trying to do a test dummy fight with cleave damage taken into account.

Also, TTK of boss is more important. Adds will die regardless.

Royalthought

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Absolutely some classes do more AOE and some do more ST. But ultimately, it doesnt matter. ST DPS is the limiting factor on pushing score, as that is what takes down bosses. Groups that have enough DPS to push score, dont focus adds. They kill them with Cleave AOE damage.

Numbers for AOE DPS dont matter, they are simply pass/fail. Either you kill the adds with cleave before they can hurt the group, or you need to turn and focus the adds to prevent it. Stam sorcs have the best AOE damage of the stamina toons, but you wont find one in a good raid. Why? Because a NB does more ST damage, and their cleave is enough to kill what needs killed without having to specifically focus things. Sure some adds might need focused, but again, a NB is going to do a better job of it. In other words, all classes pass the test.

End of the day, nobody cares about AOE expcept people that are frustrated with the ST parses and want to inflate them, which is exactly what would happen with AOE dummies. Dont get me wrong, they might be fun, but they really arent going to be useful for end game raiders.

The reason for Aoe parse is to test and see where each class is at on the totem pole. I care... Has nothing to do with frustration. If you dont feel its important. Cool. Just try not to impose your opinion on everyone.

Btw, its up to Zos to make different things matter in end game pve. Thats an entirely different discussion.

hedna123b14_ESO

Royalthought wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Absolutely some classes do more AOE and some do more ST. But ultimately, it doesnt matter. ST DPS is the limiting factor on pushing score, as that is what takes down bosses. Groups that have enough DPS to push score, dont focus adds. They kill them with Cleave AOE damage.

Numbers for AOE DPS dont matter, they are simply pass/fail. Either you kill the adds with cleave before they can hurt the group, or you need to turn and focus the adds to prevent it. Stam sorcs have the best AOE damage of the stamina toons, but you wont find one in a good raid. Why? Because a NB does more ST damage, and their cleave is enough to kill what needs killed without having to specifically focus things. Sure some adds might need focused, but again, a NB is going to do a better job of it. In other words, all classes pass the test.

End of the day, nobody cares about AOE expcept people that are frustrated with the ST parses and want to inflate them, which is exactly what would happen with AOE dummies. Dont get me wrong, they might be fun, but they really arent going to be useful for end game raiders.

The reason for Aoe parse is to test and see where each class is at on the totem pole. I care... Has nothing to do with frustration. If you dont feel its important. Cool. Just try not to impose your opinion on everyone.

Btw, its up to Zos to make different things matter in end game pve. Thats an entirely different discussion.

It would matter if the adds in PvE were made meaningful and couldn't be cleaved. The main issue is while a stamsorc has more AoE than a stamblade the difference is not significant enough to bring them into a trial. For example if the sorc aoe was 50% more than a stamblade then it would make sense to bring a stamsorc into a trial like Maw where there is lots of trash, because you would wanna balance between single target and AoE dps. As it stands now, because how high the dps is overall stamsorc doesnt outshine NB nearly enough to warrant its use. It is 100% zoe fault, but it's TRUE- aoe dps doesnt matter...

JinMori

On pts i bought like 30+ dummies and got to almost 1 mil dps, just for the fun of it.

Bladerunner1

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Absolutely some classes do more AOE and some do more ST. But ultimately, it doesnt matter. ST DPS is the limiting factor on pushing score, as that is what takes down bosses. Groups that have enough DPS to push score, dont focus adds. They kill them with Cleave AOE damage.

Numbers for AOE DPS dont matter, they are simply pass/fail. Either you kill the adds with cleave before they can hurt the group, or you need to turn and focus the adds to prevent it. Stam sorcs have the best AOE damage of the stamina toons, but you wont find one in a good raid. Why? Because a NB does more ST damage, and their cleave is enough to kill what needs killed without having to specifically focus things. Sure some adds might need focused, but again, a NB is going to do a better job of it. In other words, all classes pass the test.

End of the day, nobody cares about AOE expcept people that are frustrated with the ST parses and want to inflate them, which is exactly what would happen with AOE dummies. Dont get me wrong, they might be fun, but they really arent going to be useful for end game raiders.

The reason for Aoe parse is to test and see where each class is at on the totem pole. I care... Has nothing to do with frustration. If you dont feel its important. Cool. Just try not to impose your opinion on everyone.

Btw, its up to Zos to make different things matter in end game pve. Thats an entirely different discussion.

It would matter if the adds in PvE were made meaningful and couldn't be cleaved. The main issue is while a stamsorc has more AoE than a stamblade the difference is not significant enough to bring them into a trial. For example if the sorc aoe was 50% more than a stamblade then it would make sense to bring a stamsorc into a trial like Maw where there is lots of trash, because you would wanna balance between single target and AoE dps. As it stands now, because how high the dps is overall stamsorc doesnt outshine NB nearly enough to warrant its use. It is 100% zoe fault, but it's TRUE- aoe dps doesnt matter...

Next patch it would be easy to make a Stamblade with around 40% more AOE. Just replace surprise attack with power extraction. It's cheap enough to used as the spammable. Single target DPS will drop by 1-2%. Unless you're trying to impress people with solo buffed DPS parses, then it's more of a loss without major fracture. Dunno why people always assume Stamblade is so far behind with AOE, it's almost like they don't even test this kind of stuff.

hedna123b14_ESO

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

I'd also like to see more options available that aren't locked behind achievements. Something that can be fine tuned with a health and resistance slider would be perfect.

And you're right that a combat metrics parse would reflect the combined health of all the dummies divided by the time to take down the last dummy. It's an inflated number that really only reflects the dummy with the worst crit RNG.

But each time a dummy falls over the chat window will populate with the independently calculated DPS against that dummy. If you were to arrange several precursors around a 6 million health dummy and use a sustainable rotation on the skeleton, the chat window will populate with dozens of DPS measurements against individual precursor dummies as they fall over. That's one of the things I look at when making a comparison between builds, an average of dozens of measurements rather than the full sum of health divided by the longest timed death.

The combat metrics parse would also show the list of independent DPS numbers, but the damage stats turn into a mess if they respawn while you aren't quite finished. And you'd want to keep penetration the same across all tests for consistency. But yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement.

Agreed.

I often hear debates about class vs class but it only ever revolves around single target dummies.

Having the option to test aoe parses without all the variables would be amazing. Im really interested in which class is actually top at aoe.

It could also add perspective on class balance. Some classes I beleive are just under appreciated.

Absolutely some classes do more AOE and some do more ST. But ultimately, it doesnt matter. ST DPS is the limiting factor on pushing score, as that is what takes down bosses. Groups that have enough DPS to push score, dont focus adds. They kill them with Cleave AOE damage.

Numbers for AOE DPS dont matter, they are simply pass/fail. Either you kill the adds with cleave before they can hurt the group, or you need to turn and focus the adds to prevent it. Stam sorcs have the best AOE damage of the stamina toons, but you wont find one in a good raid. Why? Because a NB does more ST damage, and their cleave is enough to kill what needs killed without having to specifically focus things. Sure some adds might need focused, but again, a NB is going to do a better job of it. In other words, all classes pass the test.

End of the day, nobody cares about AOE expcept people that are frustrated with the ST parses and want to inflate them, which is exactly what would happen with AOE dummies. Dont get me wrong, they might be fun, but they really arent going to be useful for end game raiders.

The reason for Aoe parse is to test and see where each class is at on the totem pole. I care... Has nothing to do with frustration. If you dont feel its important. Cool. Just try not to impose your opinion on everyone.

Btw, its up to Zos to make different things matter in end game pve. Thats an entirely different discussion.

It would matter if the adds in PvE were made meaningful and couldn't be cleaved. The main issue is while a stamsorc has more AoE than a stamblade the difference is not significant enough to bring them into a trial. For example if the sorc aoe was 50% more than a stamblade then it would make sense to bring a stamsorc into a trial like Maw where there is lots of trash, because you would wanna balance between single target and AoE dps. As it stands now, because how high the dps is overall stamsorc doesnt outshine NB nearly enough to warrant its use. It is 100% zoe fault, but it's TRUE- aoe dps doesnt matter...

Next patch it would be easy to make a Stamblade with around 40% more AOE. Just replace surprise attack with power extraction. It's cheap enough to used as the spammable. Single target DPS will drop by 1-2%. Unless you're trying to impress people with solo buffed DPS parses, then it's more of a loss without major fracture. Dunno why people always assume Stamblade is so far behind with AOE, it's almost like they don't even test this kind of stuff.

Yeah there isnt a huge difference between stam aoe dps

Maryal

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

Use combat metrics ... you can get the dps of the group as well as the individual target dummies. Regarding precursor dummies - You might have to get some friends to place their precursor dummies with yours in order to get a group of them. (precursor dummy is an award you can earn during a quest, so I think you can only place one of them in your home). I don't know if housing permissions allow others to place their precursor dummies in your home.

If that doesn't work, get some regular skeleton target dummies (not the robust ones) and place several in a group and go at your AOE rotation. Again, combat metrics will let you know your overall dps as well as your dps for each individual dummy.

Or, you could just go solo some content that has a lot of trash mobs ... again combat metrics will give you the info you need or are looking for.

Royalthought

Maryal wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

In before "AOE DPS doesn't matter in raids."

You could collect precursor dummies. They do have lower resistance than normal target dummies but they still work out if you want to compare AOE damaging skills and setups, and the dummies die in 5-20 seconds depending on the build, so it approximates the time to kill typical trash mobs. And they usually all die within a few seconds of each other so you don't have some respawn while you finish the rest.

The issue is the parse would still reflect damage done to a single target. Technically IIRC a dummy could repawn due to weak aoe rotation as long as that last one is killed quickly the parse only reflects that one. They could still have a higher parse.

Another issue is that lower health targets dying in 15-20 seconds reflect bust moreso than sustainable dps.

I do get the idea. Stack, stop watch, etc. Kinda like bloodspawn tests before dummies existed. But Qol tho..

Use combat metrics ... you can get the dps of the group as well as the individual target dummies. Regarding precursor dummies - You might have to get some friends to place their precursor dummies with yours in order to get a group of them. (precursor dummy is an award you can earn during a quest, so I think you can only place one of them in your home). I don't know if housing permissions allow others to place their precursor dummies in your home.

If that doesn't work, get some regular skeleton target dummies (not the robust ones) and place several in a group and go at your AOE rotation. Again, combat metrics will let you know your overall dps as well as your dps for each individual dummy.

Or, you could just go solo some content that has a lot of trash mobs ... again combat metrics will give you the info you need or are looking for.

Is that an add on? Im on Xbox btw.

Zos adding buff trackers, target skeletons (albeit single/aoe) make a huge difference on console.

Its nice to be able to test and create as opposed to using whatever I heard was best.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Royalthought wrote: »

Simple request: I would like to see a group target dummy option. Where each target has seperate health and parse score isnt calculated until entire group is killed.

Why: Classes that have great Aoe abilities are currently judged exclusively on single target parses. (moreso pve)

Some classes have great single target kits but lesser Aoe potential.



Which class has the highest aoe potential? Wish we could test and see .

People dont test this because 90% of bosses are strictly single target (ignoring trash). In all top dps rotations there is a fair amount of AOE used just for its single target damage, and these alone when stacked in a trial group is capable of melting any adds.

Not that it wouldnt be interesting to know this just for the hell of it. And AOE can be more useful in say, vet speed run challenges, where you only have 2DD and need to clear trash fast.