"Abusing" CCs

Gibus043

In the last few months I've been playing a lot of PvP MagDK
Every now and then, I get some whisper from random people

Most are complaints about me "abusing" stuns.
It's very easy to stun/immobilize every 8s with Fossilize/Stone Giant/Talons
Eventually they run out of stamina and I get my kill. It's very effective against magicka classes who don't have a lot of stamina

But to be honest, I think they're right. This play style is too toxic to play against. I shouldn't rely on it

One thing is using your stun at the right time and burst. One thing is using it every time is off cooldown

Now I'm trying to play without Fossilize/Stone Giant. I use the whip's stun for my burst (it's getting removed next patch thought)
And of course it's a bit harder to fight other magdks

What do you think about it?
Do you use your CCs every time you can? Do you keep it just for your burst?

Biro123

Valid tactic.
If they choose to not have enough in their build to break-free on cooldown, that's on them, not you.
Remember, they are making up for it with stats in other areas, and they are choosing to take that risk.

Tonturri

It's a failure on your opponent's part to properly build to accommodate regular CC breaking.

Flame_of_Hades

The MagDk is the control class. people complaining about cc just haven't built well enough. I have no problems sustaining my stamina getting stunned every 8 seconds, while also blocking a lot.

ak_pvp

What should DK rely on then. Half the classes in the game are immune to roots. DK dots are worse than stam ones. Burst worse than stam ones. Speed worse than most classes. Escape doesn't exist. And less tanky than wardens (about equal to templars.)

You PC/EU? Wanna try locking down my FM using MDK?

VaranisArano

I think that anything that's not cheating is a fair tactic.

If you want to limit what you run, that's your perogative. Personally, I expect my opponents to bring their most efficient build to the table and I don't complain when I die.

I said the same about pre-nerf Sloads. Its in the game - its a valid gear set to run in PVP. If players choose not to use it, fine, but yelling at players running it is just venting frustration. Complain to the devs about problematic skills and sets.

Toc de Malsvi

CC'ing on CD is very important when facing high damage builds with poor sustain while not also playing a high damage build. If you don't CC them on CD they will out pressure you in most circumstances.

Players that get overly annoyed with this are too narcissistic to be objective. They run particular builds that perform well in particular circumstances and get super pissed if you don't play within their build types.

If Fossilize or Stone Giant are over-performing, they can be examined on their own merits. Everyone has access to CC of some sort and all can CC on CD as needed.

RedRook

It's not cheating, but I agree: it's toxic. I blame the current combat design before I'd blame the player - same as the OP proc-damage set of the moment. This is the game they've made for us. But CCs on cooldown are no fun.

Strider__Roshin

It's true, I beat my Mass Hysteria every night

Strider__Roshin

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

Maryal

I think part of the problem is the combination of stuns, snares, and lag (more visual effects = more lag) ... too many times you can't move your character when you are hit with this stuff, you push buttons but nothing happens, you have plenty of stamina to break free, and you try to break free but nothing happens. Then WHOMP ... you're looking at your death recap screen.

You don't notice the problem as much when you are playing offensively, but you do notice more when playing defensively because you have a very short window of time to react. While you may react timely, your timely reaction isn't being registered by the server in quite so timely a fashion. People in the heat of combat don't stop to think in those terms, they just get angry and, well, you know.

thankyourat

It's not really cheesy 1v1 you opponent should be able to manage their stamina. Xv1 though I agree this playstyle is completely toxic. Roots need to be on cooldown.

Moonsorrow

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

And thats why 100% of competitive pvp groups are full of dk, oh wait.. they are full of nightblades.

One can always tell the class with the "little too good arsenal" from how big their amounts are in the competitive groups.

Was gonna explain things further, but decided not to, think people have already tried but biased people are always biased.

idk

It is part of the design of the game. As long as it is you are not abusing anything. If they are going to be upset they should be upset with themselves for not being prepared.

Just ignore such whispers. I do.

thankyourat

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

And thats why 100% of competitive pvp groups are full of dk, oh wait.. they are full of nightblades.

One can always tell the class with the "little too good arsenal" from how big their amounts are in the competitive groups.

Was gonna explain things further, but decided not to, think people have already tried but biased people are always biased.

Idk the Xbox group comp seems to be stamina wardens, Magicka dks, and Magicka Templars. Magicka dks have been everywhere for a couple of patches now. I still don't see alot of Stam dks though. Mag dk has probably moved up to the best and most popular Magicka class

Solariken

I like that mdk is a beast in melee combat, it just sucks that they also happen to be immune to ranged attack. I don't even engage good mdk players unless I'm on a bleed build or I can Xv1 them, sad to admit.

Reverb

It's bad design that roots have no cooldown, so you can keep people snared in your talons indefinitely and then fossilize them every 8 seconds. It's a valid play style, and any fault lies with the devs, not any one playing like that. It's also the primary reason that almost all stam PvP toons are 2h and mag are vamps. Anyone who doesn't choose one of those builds is a sitting duck for you.

Moonsorrow

thankyourat wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

And thats why 100% of competitive pvp groups are full of dk, oh wait.. they are full of nightblades.

One can always tell the class with the "little too good arsenal" from how big their amounts are in the competitive groups.

Was gonna explain things further, but decided not to, think people have already tried but biased people are always biased.

Idk the Xbox group comp seems to be stamina wardens, Magicka dks, and Magicka Templars. Magicka dks have been everywhere for a couple of patches now. I still don't see alot of Stam dks though. Mag dk has probably moved up to the best and most popular Magicka class

Well, stamdens are strong of course, most groups got pretty much 2nd highest amounts of them, since for many stamden is what the stamDK used to be, or should be.. can aoe burst down nicely AND be tanky at the same time, have some of those with the typical bursty nbs and you got yourself a group.

Strider__Roshin

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

And thats why 100% of competitive pvp groups are full of dk, oh wait.. they are full of nightblades.

One can always tell the class with the "little too good arsenal" from how big their amounts are in the competitive groups.

Was gonna explain things further, but decided not to, think people have already tried but biased people are always biased.

You'd think everyone played a Nightblade and were the most OP class in the game if you read the forums. I'm afraid the scenario you gave only exists in your mind.

The class that fits your description the best would be wardens; both stam and magicka. The class that always has a presence no matter what the context would be magplars. Not that I'm downplaying the strength of Nightblades; they're certainly quite powerful especially with Cloak, but they're the minority when it comes to competitive PvP. Not as bad as stamDKs though. They're probably at the bottom.

CatchMeTrolling

The problem is cc immunity is broken and roots are implemented poorly.

Moonsorrow

Daus wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

And thats why 100% of competitive pvp groups are full of dk, oh wait.. they are full of nightblades.

One can always tell the class with the "little too good arsenal" from how big their amounts are in the competitive groups.

Was gonna explain things further, but decided not to, think people have already tried but biased people are always biased.

You'd think everyone played a Nightblade and were the most OP class in the game if you read the forums. I'm afraid the scenario you gave only exists in your mind.

The class that fits your description the best would be wardens; both stam and magicka. The class that always has a presence no matter what the context would be magplars. Not that I'm downplaying the strength of Nightblades; they're certainly quite powerful especially with Cloak, but they're the minority when it comes to competitive PvP. Not as bad as stamDKs though. They're probably at the bottom.

See, this is what i meant, well atleast you admitted to stamdk not being that strong, but then placing nightblades just above stamdk again like its pain to play and in need of buffs or something, can only laugh when reading your stuff and what exists in YOUR mind apparently.

LeifErickson

It's funny because if you go back in time to a year or two ago (Dark Brotherhood patch thru Homestead), not only was this not a complaint, but people didn't even know what talons and fossilize were. It just goes to show that the things people complain about aren't the OP things, but the popular things. How long have bleeds been in the game? Forever I think. But they have started to get complaints now more than ever.

It's also funny because magicka DK was actually better back then too. It's a shadow of its former self back a year or two ago (talking about Dark Brotherhood patch thru Homestead, not pre 1.6) and yet is now considered super strong and popular.

IZZEFlameLash

Don't even listen to your opponents' complaints about CC. They'd CC you every chance they get too. Slot back CCs. I use CC every opportunity I get.

Gilvoth

Gibus043 wrote: »

In the last few months I've been playing a lot of PvP MagDK
Every now and then, I get some whisper from random people

Most are complaints about me "abusing" stuns.
It's very easy to stun/immobilize every 8s with Fossilize/Stone Giant/Talons
Eventually they run out of stamina and I get my kill. It's very effective against magicka classes who don't have a lot of stamina

But to be honest, I think they're right. This play style is too toxic to play against. I shouldn't rely on it

One thing is using your stun at the right time and burst. One thing is using it every time is off cooldown

Now I'm trying to play without Fossilize/Stone Giant. I use the whip's stun for my burst (it's getting removed next patch thought)
And of course it's a bit harder to fight other magdks

What do you think about it?
Do you use your CCs every time you can? Do you keep it just for your burst?

thank you for being honest and admitting the truth about this stun lock and that break free from this takes sooo long that when you finally get a chance to break free your dead from the whip and damage.
it's an exploit that has been going on for 5 years that nobody has talked about because we kept thinking that devs knew about it.

Koensol

Solariken wrote: »

I like that mdk is a beast in melee combat, it just sucks that they also happen to be immune to ranged attack. I don't even engage good mdk players unless I'm on a bleed build or I can Xv1 them, sad to admit.

I'd have to agree with this. mDK's just counter a bit too many specs in a 1v1. In melee range they dominate most medium armor builds and they completely screw over magsorcs and magblades using destro. Bow builds also have little chance. Im not saying mDK is OP, because they aren't. But in a 1v1 there is no viable tactic for some classes/builds to outplay a mDK of similar skill. No other class hard counters certain specs like that.

Biro123

Koensol wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I like that mdk is a beast in melee combat, it just sucks that they also happen to be immune to ranged attack. I don't even engage good mdk players unless I'm on a bleed build or I can Xv1 them, sad to admit.

I'd have to agree with this. mDK's just counter a bit too many specs in a 1v1. In melee range they dominate most medium armor builds and they completely screw over magsorcs and magblades using destro. Bow builds also have little chance. Im not saying mDK is OP, because they aren't. But in a 1v1 there is no viable tactic for some classes/builds to outplay a mDK of similar skill. No other class hard counters certain specs like that.

Shhh.. They have a reputation to maintain y'know!

Skander

Problem: In non-cp after blocking 3 blows and cc freeing as magicka, you have 0 stamina

Biro123

Skander wrote: »

Problem: In non-cp after blocking 3 blows and cc freeing as magicka, you have 0 stamina

I don't really do no-cp, but have ran very low-stam builds in CP before. I know it isn't as unforgiving, but sometimes you just have to choose when not to use that stam.

ie. can you live with being rooted this time around? Can you take that hit rather than blocking? And in the worst-case, do you have to break this hard-cc, or can you choose to take the burst instead (ie defensive buffs all up and high health, and a healing ulti ready) so you will have stam when you REALLY need it.…

bardx86

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

anything that's not a NB is a little to good for you is it not?

ATomiX96

why is it toxic to cc someone every 6 seconds? you just grind them out of ressources until they eventually drop dead. completely valid strategy.

if you think fossilize is broken just imagine that scatter shot + incap still works for a 7 sec cc chain where they cant do anything if they dont have stam to break free.

Yes, it still works i had plenty of fun with it on my stamblade. Discovered it accidentally while trying to kick zerglings off alessia bridge last week.

ATomiX96

bardx86 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

In all seriousness though I think the DKs arsenal is a little too good

Melee: Haha! I win (roots, snares, AoE heal)
Range: Haha! I win (I whip my wings back and fourth)

anything that's not a NB is a little to good for you is it not?

he/she/it is a biased medium stamblade one trick let him/her/it be.