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Fix Nord Racials Please

Manami
Manami
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Give us SOMETHING so we're not the least used race.

Seriously the racial bonuses are hugely unbalanced. Redguards aren't the only Fierce Fighters. Races like Orcs, Nord and Redguard should have Stamina Gain and light Attack gain. They are the most fierce melee fighters.
  • Daus
    Daus
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    Everyone including ZOS knows that Nords are a tad underwhelming. They're wanting to work on class balance first though which I believe is going to be in a good spot in Murkmire.

    @ZOS_RobGarrett would you happen to know if you guys plan on addressing racials next update?
  • idk
    idk
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    Nords are probably the 3rd or 4th choice for tanking. The passives are clearly in line with that.

    Even Woeler suggest them as a third or fourth choice for an off tank.
    Really, idk
  • Daus
    Daus
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    Honestly their racials are pretty good, but they need something for sustain. I'd keep everything else the same though.
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Daus wrote: »
    Honestly their racials are pretty good, but they need something for sustain. I'd keep everything else the same though.

    That’s fair. Frankly I have the same issue with my Imperial templar tank, though. Because Imperial. And templar tank... lol.
    I play ESO on XBOX NA
    My gameplay focus is creativity - through storytelling, character design, and character development (aka, I'm a dedicated role player)
    Current characters realized include:
    - Xandar (Altmer, magicka sorcerer, main crafter), a master of magic and a hopeless romantic; specializes in electric shock therapy and melodrama.
    - Vasha (Khajiit, magicka nightblade), a master thief and cunning murderer; specializes in trolling guards and general mayhem.
    - Alexander (Imperial, stamina templar, main tank), an artificer, futurist, and idealist; specializes structural integrity and gears. Mostly just gears.
    - Leoda (Bosmer, stamina warden, werewolf), a cheeky huntress dedicated to the Queen; specializes in putting arrows in your face.
    - Llaus (Dunmer, magicka dragonknight, vampire), a grim outcast with a temper; specializes in death by conflagration or exsanguination.
    - Shantava* (Redguard, stamina sorcerer), a pirate and treasure hunter; specializes in whirling blades, camel wrangling, and your money.
    - Kitara* (Breton, magicka warden, main healer), an elementalist and tree hugger; specializes in herbal remedies, tea, and pleasant bedside manner.
    * Work In Progress, may be deleted/revised
  • Daus
    Daus
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    Starlock wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Honestly their racials are pretty good, but they need something for sustain. I'd keep everything else the same though.

    That’s fair. Frankly I have the same issue with my Imperial templar tank, though. Because Imperial. And templar tank... lol.

    You're going to love next update then :smile:
  • BuddyAces
    BuddyAces
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    Starlock wrote: »
    Nords DO have something - they have racial passives like every other race does. You can read about them here - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nord

    You not liking the racials doesn’t make it broken and in need of fixing. They are already more of a fighter oriented race... just more on the tanky end like Imperials are. It’s fine. For those obsessed with min-maxing, balance will never be a thing anyway as power gamers will always figure out what is ‘best in slot’ and never pick anything else anyway.

    No. They are broken and it has nothing to do with min maxing. Something needs to change. Hate being pigeon holed into redguard for Stam toon.

    Let’s put it this way, the gap between redguard and other Stam orientated races is way too large. Even tightening up the gap would help beyond measure. Not saying every race needs to be on par but the gap shouldn’t be as big as it is.
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
  • Daus
    Daus
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    BuddyAces wrote: »
    Starlock wrote: »
    Nords DO have something - they have racial passives like every other race does. You can read about them here - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nord

    You not liking the racials doesn’t make it broken and in need of fixing. They are already more of a fighter oriented race... just more on the tanky end like Imperials are. It’s fine. For those obsessed with min-maxing, balance will never be a thing anyway as power gamers will always figure out what is ‘best in slot’ and never pick anything else anyway.

    No. They are broken and it has nothing to do with min maxing. Something needs to change. Hate being pigeon holed into redguard for Stam toon.

    Let’s put it this way, the gap between redguard and other Stam orientated races is way too large. Even tightening up the gap would help beyond measure. Not saying every race needs to be on par but the gap shouldn’t be as big as it is.

    I'd personally give them something that gives them stamina back when they receive damage; with a cool down of course. This would make them better tanks, and help their sustain in all environments. It won't be as good/reliable as Adrenaline Rush, but it fits their persona of taking a beating while dishing it out.
  • BuddyAces
    BuddyAces
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    Daus wrote: »
    BuddyAces wrote: »
    Starlock wrote: »
    Nords DO have something - they have racial passives like every other race does. You can read about them here - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nord

    You not liking the racials doesn’t make it broken and in need of fixing. They are already more of a fighter oriented race... just more on the tanky end like Imperials are. It’s fine. For those obsessed with min-maxing, balance will never be a thing anyway as power gamers will always figure out what is ‘best in slot’ and never pick anything else anyway.

    No. They are broken and it has nothing to do with min maxing. Something needs to change. Hate being pigeon holed into redguard for Stam toon.

    Let’s put it this way, the gap between redguard and other Stam orientated races is way too large. Even tightening up the gap would help beyond measure. Not saying every race needs to be on par but the gap shouldn’t be as big as it is.

    I'd personally give them something that gives them stamina back when they receive damage; with a cool down of course. This would make them better tanks, and help their sustain in all environments. It won't be as good/reliable as Adrenaline Rush, but it fits their persona of taking a beating while dishing it out.

    They don’t need anything to help with tanking. Any class can be a perfect viable tank. Of my core group when we tackle 4 man content (hard mode, no death, speed runs, arenas) our tank is a khajit with a destro staff back bar. Outside of maybe vet trials you can get almost anything as a tank to work.

    Taking a race that isn’t what’s “bis” is a huge step behind the bis race. That gap should be nowhere near as large as it is.


    Edit
    I helped a group do a no death in scale, tank was an 18k health mag Sorc shield build (rip his tank next patch though). Anything can tank
    Edited by BuddyAces on September 30, 2018 6:58PM
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
  • Callous2208
    Callous2208
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    If you can believe it, Nord racials used to be worse. I made a joke thread like 2 years ago asking of there were any new nord roleplay builds since that's all they could excel at. :D
  • BuddyAces
    BuddyAces
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    If you can believe it, Nord racials used to be worse. I made a joke thread like 2 years ago asking of there were any new nord roleplay builds since that's all they could excel at. :D


    You remember offhand what they were? I’ve just always known that they kinda suck
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
  • Manami
    Manami
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    Daus and Buddy know what I mean. Give us SOMETHING for Sustainability.

    "You're 3rd pick for Tank" uh sure... Then why would you pick anything other than the first two.

    People who don't want to play that race and build don't seem to get it because they don't know the problem.

    And if they did it on lore bases, then why the hell do Nords not have the Stamina Regain stuff Redguards have? Deus has the right idea on that, that we should have a Stam Regain on damage taken. THAT is Nord lore 120%.
  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    Worth noting that the 6% damage mitigation passive doesn't actually end up being anywhere near that amount. Last information I saw about it from a reliable source pegged it at ~1-2%.

    I think a reasonable solution would be to make Nord very similar to stamina Breton (also going to address some much-needed Breton buffs here), replacing "6%" mitigation with ~4k armor (which actually is about 6% mitigation vs physical attacks and is actually quite valuable because getting armor is quite a bit harder than getting spell resist) and 2k spell resist. The health regen (probably worst stat ingame for most builds) would then be replaced with 3% stamina cost reduction to help Nord sustain. Honestly maybe even keep the health regen cause it isn't that strong but does help some niche builds.

    Final passives are:
    - 6% Stamina + 3% Stamina cost reduction
    - 9% Health + 2000 Cold Resist (chilled immunity)
    - 4000 Armor, 2000 Spell Resist (~6% mitigation vs physical, 3% vs magic)

    This is substantially better than Nord is currently. It will not be top DPS but should be noticeably tankier than it currently is with more sustain. Great resists/HP buff + stamina buffs make it viable as a tank race in PvE, more viable as a PvE DPS race, and as a PvP race (where chilled immunity is actually a bit underrated, making you impossible to maim via warden/FP/asylum destro/ice enchants).

    To be brought on par with Altmer/Dunmer, Breton also needs a buff. Either double the cost reduction or add ~5% magic damage. Virtually all PvE builds do far more elemental/fire damage than magic damage so this will not change PvE BiS.

    Final passives are:
    - 10% Magicka
    - 4k Spell Resist
    - 3% Magicka cost reduction + 5% magic damage
    Edited by lassitershawn on September 30, 2018 7:08PM
    William Thorne (main) - Breton Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Erik Ironskin - Nord Dragonknight Tank - EP NA
    Venasa Viri - Dunmer Nightblade DPS - EP NA
    Shade of Relequen - Altmer Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Astrid Winterborn - Breton Warden Tank - EP NA

    Immortal Redeemer x8, Gryphon Heart x4, Tick-Tock Tormentor

    Nightfighters - Lassi's Rock Collection - Factotum
  • Callous2208
    Callous2208
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    BuddyAces wrote: »
    If you can believe it, Nord racials used to be worse. I made a joke thread like 2 years ago asking of there were any new nord roleplay builds since that's all they could excel at. :D


    You remember offhand what they were? I’ve just always known that they kinda suck

    Dang been so long. I think reveler used to just be 2h experience gain and no drink buff. Resist frost was just that, resist frost and no hp buff. I think stalwart used to hp only and no max stam. Someone with a better memory than I will have to verify.
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    Been nord as my main and only toon for four years...love nord...hate the passives.

    I the mitigation passive could end up being more valuable. I don't feel it at all. Rofl
  • StamWhipCultist
    StamWhipCultist
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    Starlock wrote: »
    Nords DO have something - they have racial passives like every other race does. You can read about them here - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nord

    You not liking the racials doesn’t make it broken and in need of fixing. They are already more of a fighter oriented race... just more on the tanky end like Imperials are. It’s fine. For those obsessed with min-maxing, balance will never be a thing anyway as power gamers will always figure out what is ‘best in slot’ and never pick anything else anyway.

    Making racial passive slightly better than it is now would be fine. Nords are not magicka race, pretty much worst of all stamina related races and 3rd or 4th as tanking race. And if someone asked for slight buff, that is hardly a cry for making nords BiS, tbh.
    #stamwhip
  • BuddyAces
    BuddyAces
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    BuddyAces wrote: »
    If you can believe it, Nord racials used to be worse. I made a joke thread like 2 years ago asking of there were any new nord roleplay builds since that's all they could excel at. :D


    You remember offhand what they were? I’ve just always known that they kinda suck

    Dang been so long. I think reveler used to just be 2h experience gain and no drink buff. Resist frost was just that, resist frost and no hp buff. I think stalwart used to hp only and no max stam. Someone with a better memory than I will have to verify.

    Cuz all that pesky frost damage that is killing everyone outside of direfrost keep =p
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Starlock wrote: »
    Nords DO have something - they have racial passives like every other race does. You can read about them here - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nord

    You not liking the racials doesn’t make it broken and in need of fixing. They are already more of a fighter oriented race... just more on the tanky end like Imperials are. It’s fine. For those obsessed with min-maxing, balance will never be a thing anyway as power gamers will always figure out what is ‘best in slot’ and never pick anything else anyway.

    Making racial passive slightly better than it is now would be fine. Nords are not magicka race, pretty much worst of all stamina related races and 3rd or 4th as tanking race. And if someone asked for slight buff, that is hardly a cry for making nords BiS, tbh.

    I suppose I think a few miles further down the road.

    Let’s say Race X is ‘broken’ and needs ‘fixing’ because it is last place according to some power gamer’s metrics for some particular role. Let’s say we then ‘fix’ race X. This results in race Y or race Z being less optimized, or perhaps becoming the new last place. Guess what happens next?

    People whine about the new last place race being ‘broken’ and claim it needs to be ‘fixed.’ There’s no satisfying people who want to rank order everything from a power gaming standpoint and have their particular race be best (or not worst). Something always has to be first and worst. Unless, of course, you remove racials entirely or make them identical. Which is not likely to happen.
    Edited by Starlock on September 30, 2018 9:39PM
    I play ESO on XBOX NA
    My gameplay focus is creativity - through storytelling, character design, and character development (aka, I'm a dedicated role player)
    Current characters realized include:
    - Xandar (Altmer, magicka sorcerer, main crafter), a master of magic and a hopeless romantic; specializes in electric shock therapy and melodrama.
    - Vasha (Khajiit, magicka nightblade), a master thief and cunning murderer; specializes in trolling guards and general mayhem.
    - Alexander (Imperial, stamina templar, main tank), an artificer, futurist, and idealist; specializes structural integrity and gears. Mostly just gears.
    - Leoda (Bosmer, stamina warden, werewolf), a cheeky huntress dedicated to the Queen; specializes in putting arrows in your face.
    - Llaus (Dunmer, magicka dragonknight, vampire), a grim outcast with a temper; specializes in death by conflagration or exsanguination.
    - Shantava* (Redguard, stamina sorcerer), a pirate and treasure hunter; specializes in whirling blades, camel wrangling, and your money.
    - Kitara* (Breton, magicka warden, main healer), an elementalist and tree hugger; specializes in herbal remedies, tea, and pleasant bedside manner.
    * Work In Progress, may be deleted/revised
  • SydneyGrey
    SydneyGrey
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    To be brought on par with Altmer/Dunmer, Breton also needs a buff.
    SO MUCH THIS.
    I did a race change from Breton to Altmer recently, and the change in the damage I was doing was definitely large enough to be noticeable.. The build was identical except for the race change. This is the reason I can't stand it when people try to tell noobs that "race doesn't matter," because it actually can matter a lot.
    .... Now watch, because we're talking about it now, ZOS will nerf Altmer instead of buffing Bretons. Just you watch, it'll happen. :/

  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    To be brought on par with Altmer/Dunmer, Breton also needs a buff.
    SO MUCH THIS.
    I did a race change from Breton to Altmer recently, and the change in the damage I was doing was definitely large enough to be noticeable.. The build was identical except for the race change. This is the reason I can't stand it when people try to tell noobs that "race doesn't matter," because it actually can matter a lot.
    .... Now watch, because we're talking about it now, ZOS will nerf Altmer instead of buffing Bretons. Just you watch, it'll happen. :/

    It is extremely noticeable. I made an Altmer sorc so I wouldn't have to race change my main and the difference in PvE is very significant.
    William Thorne (main) - Breton Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Erik Ironskin - Nord Dragonknight Tank - EP NA
    Venasa Viri - Dunmer Nightblade DPS - EP NA
    Shade of Relequen - Altmer Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Astrid Winterborn - Breton Warden Tank - EP NA

    Immortal Redeemer x8, Gryphon Heart x4, Tick-Tock Tormentor

    Nightfighters - Lassi's Rock Collection - Factotum
  • weedgenius
    weedgenius
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    Worth noting that the 6% damage mitigation passive doesn't actually end up being anywhere near that amount. Last information I saw about it from a reliable source pegged it at ~1-2%.

    I think a reasonable solution would be to make Nord very similar to stamina Breton (also going to address some much-needed Breton buffs here), replacing "6%" mitigation with ~4k armor (which actually is about 6% mitigation vs physical attacks and is actually quite valuable because getting armor is quite a bit harder than getting spell resist) and 2k spell resist. The health regen (probably worst stat ingame for most builds) would then be replaced with 3% stamina cost reduction to help Nord sustain. Honestly maybe even keep the health regen cause it isn't that strong but does help some niche builds.

    Final passives are:
    - 6% Stamina + 3% Stamina cost reduction
    - 9% Health + 2000 Cold Resist (chilled immunity)
    - 4000 Armor, 2000 Spell Resist (~6% mitigation vs physical, 3% vs magic)

    This is substantially better than Nord is currently. It will not be top DPS but should be noticeably tankier than it currently is with more sustain. Great resists/HP buff + stamina buffs make it viable as a tank race in PvE, more viable as a PvE DPS race, and as a PvP race (where chilled immunity is actually a bit underrated, making you impossible to maim via warden/FP/asylum destro/ice enchants).

    To be brought on par with Altmer/Dunmer, Breton also needs a buff. Either double the cost reduction or add ~5% magic damage. Virtually all PvE builds do far more elemental/fire damage than magic damage so this will not change PvE BiS.

    Final passives are:
    - 10% Magicka
    - 4k Spell Resist
    - 3% Magicka cost reduction + 5% magic damage

    @lassitershawn Can you elaborate on why the Nord passive damage mitigation doesn't behave as one might assume it will?
    PS4 NA
  • lassitershawn
    lassitershawn
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    weedgenius wrote: »
    Worth noting that the 6% damage mitigation passive doesn't actually end up being anywhere near that amount. Last information I saw about it from a reliable source pegged it at ~1-2%.

    I think a reasonable solution would be to make Nord very similar to stamina Breton (also going to address some much-needed Breton buffs here), replacing "6%" mitigation with ~4k armor (which actually is about 6% mitigation vs physical attacks and is actually quite valuable because getting armor is quite a bit harder than getting spell resist) and 2k spell resist. The health regen (probably worst stat ingame for most builds) would then be replaced with 3% stamina cost reduction to help Nord sustain. Honestly maybe even keep the health regen cause it isn't that strong but does help some niche builds.

    Final passives are:
    - 6% Stamina + 3% Stamina cost reduction
    - 9% Health + 2000 Cold Resist (chilled immunity)
    - 4000 Armor, 2000 Spell Resist (~6% mitigation vs physical, 3% vs magic)

    This is substantially better than Nord is currently. It will not be top DPS but should be noticeably tankier than it currently is with more sustain. Great resists/HP buff + stamina buffs make it viable as a tank race in PvE, more viable as a PvE DPS race, and as a PvP race (where chilled immunity is actually a bit underrated, making you impossible to maim via warden/FP/asylum destro/ice enchants).

    To be brought on par with Altmer/Dunmer, Breton also needs a buff. Either double the cost reduction or add ~5% magic damage. Virtually all PvE builds do far more elemental/fire damage than magic damage so this will not change PvE BiS.

    Final passives are:
    - 10% Magicka
    - 4k Spell Resist
    - 3% Magicka cost reduction + 5% magic damage

    @lassitershawn Can you elaborate on why the Nord passive damage mitigation doesn't behave as one might assume it will?

    What I remember reading is that it applies after all other mitigation has been calculated. So you get hit, the damage is mitigated by block/armor/CP/protection buffs etc and THEN that damage is multiplied by 0.94. So you are mitigating 6% of whatever is left, not 6% off the top. Basically the 6% is not additive with other sources of mitigation. Obviously the actual mitigation you will get will vary, but the last information I saw on it said somewhere between 1 and 2%. In any case, it is far less useful than it would imply.
    William Thorne (main) - Breton Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Erik Ironskin - Nord Dragonknight Tank - EP NA
    Venasa Viri - Dunmer Nightblade DPS - EP NA
    Shade of Relequen - Altmer Sorcerer DPS - EP NA
    Astrid Winterborn - Breton Warden Tank - EP NA

    Immortal Redeemer x8, Gryphon Heart x4, Tick-Tock Tormentor

    Nightfighters - Lassi's Rock Collection - Factotum
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    Nord Passive Fixes
    Stalwart: Increase Max Stamina by 3/6/9%. Increase Health Regen by 5/10/15% and Healing Received by 1/3/5%
    Resist Frost: Increase Max Health by 3/6/9%. Increase Cold Resistance 693/1386/2079.
    Rugged: Reduce damage received by 2/4/6%. Restore 308/616/924 Stamina upon taking damage. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

    Increased their Max Stamina up to 9% from 6%.
    Gave them 5% Healing Received at the cost of 5% Health Regen
    Gave them a 924 Stamina return upon taking damage.

    The Max Stamina increase as well as the mild sustain buff for taking damage should keep them on a fairly good spot as far as DPS specs are concerned. The only issue would be in PvP where constant damage would be easy to keep Rugged on CD, giving them pretty decent sustain when under pressure and coupled with their bulky nature, might be a little overtuned, but if that's the case, simply reduce/remove the Healing Received passive and keep the rest of the changes as they are. It might not make Nord the highest DPS spec but it should improve them a little bit while also making them much more worthwhile Tanks.
    Argonian forever
  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    Elfsbane: 250 weapon damage to all abilities against mer.

    Sounds fair.
    Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.
  • Atallanta
    Atallanta
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    Nords need some love :)
  • TheInfernalRage
    TheInfernalRage
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    one of my oldest characters is a nord Nightblade

    it is the illusion of hierarchy (and a whole lot of ***-ishness) that prevents people from playing with diversity


  • ayu_fever
    ayu_fever
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    my main of 2 years is a nord templar tank.

    why a nord?
    i prefer the nord race in elder scrolls. everything about them especially since i enjoy vikings and norse mythology (and no i am not a skyrim noob. my first elder scrolls game was morrowind on the original xbox in 2002. been hooked on the games since then and favored nords since then.).

    why a templar?
    if there is a holy knight or paladin class style of play that is what i use in every game.

    why a tank?
    i enjoy tanking the most. i do like to heal (ironically i have never made my templar a healer. wardens are the best in slot healers anyway. my NB and warden have that role covered).

    i have endured many hardships and even build shaming over 2 years.
    because i am a templar it was assumed i am the healer queued as a “fake tank.”
    “why is our tank not a DK?” -vote to kick-

    but... once the activity begins and the group sees her in action they all change their toon QUICK!!!
    kids these days... they all worry too much about what everyone else is doing instead of having FUN.
    this is a GAME.
    all characters are members of the ebonheart pact master race
    BLOOD FOR THE PACT


    Rebekah Straight-Fire, breton templar healer: THE FATEBRINGER (main character)
    Lucille Straight-Fire, high elf nightblade healer: THE DARK ANGEL
    Zelina Straight-Fire, wood elf warden stam deeps: THE RANGER
    Diana Straight-Fire, nord templar tank: THE CLERIC
    Sasha Straight-Fire, nord dragonknight tank: THE FORTRESS
    Falsetto Straight-Fire, orc sorcerer tank: THE SHOCKER
    Freyja Straight-Fire, nord warden PVP ice mage: THE ICEBERG
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
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    BuddyAces wrote: »
    BuddyAces wrote: »
    If you can believe it, Nord racials used to be worse. I made a joke thread like 2 years ago asking of there were any new nord roleplay builds since that's all they could excel at. :D


    You remember offhand what they were? I’ve just always known that they kinda suck

    Dang been so long. I think reveler used to just be 2h experience gain and no drink buff. Resist frost was just that, resist frost and no hp buff. I think stalwart used to hp only and no max stam. Someone with a better memory than I will have to verify.

    Cuz all that pesky frost damage that is killing everyone outside of direfrost keep =p


    They used to be even worse. It was like healthy recovery, Damage reduction and frost resist. (Even though Permafrost ultimates will completely destroy you).

    They should change change Stalwart to Stamina and health recovery instead.
    Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
    -Berj Stoneheart
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
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    Anhedonie wrote: »
    Elfsbane: 250 weapon damage to all abilities against mer.

    Sounds fair.

    This idea isn’t half bad. Most of the Mag meta riders are Dunmers or Altmer.
    Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
    -Berj Stoneheart
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