Can this game support map, skyshard, motif sharing account wide?

Iselin

Some things that aren't currently account wide should be and some shouldn't.

It makes little sense to me to have the apex benefit of some achievements (costumes, emotes, skins, dyes, etc.) be account wide but the achievements themselves not be. That is just silly and a PITA for those of us who regularly play many different characters (I have a full stable of 15 myself.)

The riding skill is an obnoxious overly long grind and should be account wide. That's just extra grind for the sake of grind (and crown store relief from inconvenience, of course )

Skyshards definitely should not be for the obvious reason that they are related to skill points and those are an integral part of leveling. Making hard choices about which skill, morph or passive to unlock next is part of the leveling progression fun and having the over-abundance of points that account-wide skyshards would give you would trivialize that.

Motifs I'm ambivalent about. I get the "related to master writ" argument but that's a relative new thing in the game introduced with housing at the same time when they made it pretty well mandatory to concentrate all your crafting on one character. For the two years prior to that it made no difference whether you split your crafting into 2, 3 or more characters. As a matter of fact MMO vets who had crafte in other MMOs were more used to spreading them out than concentrating them since very few games have real, tangible advantages when you concentrate all crafting on one character. House item crafting pretty well put a stop to that midstream. At least the outfit part of those motifs is account-wide... that's something I guess.

FluffyDragg0n

wow. such hate. well I guess this is what defines humans.

Iselin

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

wow. such hate. well I guess this is what defines humans.

Use quotes please.

My non-hateful and mostly supportive of your point post just happens to be between your comment and the previous post that triggered you so without quotes it looks like you're responding to me when I know you're not

FluffyDragg0n

Well, one thing is for sure. The devs like it when people say no to other people's ideas and go open wide to take everything in a dev say. ehh. just another game with players. Guess Skyrim does have a benefit to it. Hope TES 6 won't be a letdown.
Never understood why some humans like being limited. do those people punish themselves at home as rewards?

therift

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

wow. such hate. well I guess this is what defines humans.

I'm going to assume your comment is directed at me, since I have strongly opposed your suggestion and pointed out in detail the problems I see with it.

This is not 'hate', no matter how much you dislike opposition to your suggestion. It is defense of fairness, defense of balance, and born from my desire that new players come to enjoy the game as much as I... despite the fact your suggestion, if implemented, would give me a nearly unassailable advantage over others.

This isn't hate, my stubborn friend. It is called 'Altruism'. Look it up.

Sheezabeast

therift wrote: »

No.

silvermistktralasub17_ESO wrote: »

There is actually a game-balance problem with sharing motifs and some achievements. Motifs and crafting related achievements do, directly, relate to the likelihood of master writs that a character can acquire. If every character had access to what your 'master' had, you could be getting excessive master writs for the effort, and that imbalances it, as master writs, and the vouchers from it, are a form of in-game currency. With things interconnected, making more things 'account wide', could very well have unintended consequences.

@Alassirna
Sneakybo, ExSO_Gold, Demure Dragon Dealings

Above is a spot-on explanation why motifs must not ever become an 'account-wide' option in the game.

As for 'account-wide' skyshards, no character should start the game with 113 skill points at Level 1.

You may think such features would be convenient for you, but what you suggest would create an enormous advantage for longer-term players over new players.

It would be incredibly unfair.

Limiting motifs and skyshards to individual characters is absolutely necessary to maintain balance. If you wish to create an account with 15 characters earning Master Writs, or an account with 15 characters that have all skill lines unlocked, there must be a time/expense penalty to balance such an advantage.

As for transit shrines, many key shrines are unlocked upon character creation, and others are easily unlocked using the Navigator system or simply walking.

Again... no way, not ever, don't be greedy, earn your advantages, and hell no.

Very well stated. 100% agree. Especially about master writs.

TheShadowScout

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Can this game support map, skyshard, motif sharing account wide?

That would be iffy...

Skyshards come with skill points, having those account wide would give alts of older accounts an even larger advantage then the champion system already does over new players. Not a good thing.

Map comes with exploration XP, so making the map account wide either would give newly made characters a ton of XP to boost their level without doing anythijng to earn it, or it would lock them out of all those exploration expees.

Motiv... eh.It would make little sense fluff-wise, but... I guess there is no game-technical reason against it... BUT! They still sell motives in the crown store, so making it account wide would cut them off from any profits they might gain there from those with more cash then patience.

And there we come to the core of the matter.

They gain no profit from making any of this, so they won't make it.

Instead if they ever were to do anything in that direction... it would come -just- like "account wide riding" - aka, as crown store "convenience" consumable. Crown store "skyshard collection crystals" that give you all the skyshards and accompaning skill pointsin one region as "found". Crown store "regional maps" that unlock all the stuff on one map and gives the exploration XP without the need to visit. Crown store "achievement certificates" that give you certain achievements as unlocked. Crown store "library almanach folio" that give you a certain selection of books for your eidetic memory. And we already got motives, riding training and research speedup scrolls...
Still sounds like such a good idea when you have to pay through the nose for all of this???

VaranisArano

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Well, one thing is for sure. The devs like it when people say no to other people's ideas and go open wide to take everything in a dev say. ehh. just another game with players. Guess Skyrim does have a benefit to it. Hope TES 6 won't be a letdown.
Never understood why some humans like being limited. do those people punish themselves at home as rewards?

Yes, it probably does serve the Devs' purpose to have players debate and point out problems with suggestions in the forums.

A prime example is the recent shield nerf, where community feedback in the forums, discords, and class representatives got the cast time changed into a cap on shield strength. Or the Pynadonean motifs, which were included in fishing after a community outcry about putting the chapters in crown crates. Or 2 handed weapons counting for 2 set bonuses.

Nevertheless, that does not mean that the devs listen and change according to community feedback in every instance.


Your feedback: You want to the grind to be lowered for making new characters.

ZOS keeps adding new grinds to the game. Jewelry crafting is deliberately a grind. The new Murkmire daily achievements are a huge grind. Welkynar motif fragments are a grind.

ZOS deliberately changes the meta to force people to grind. Sets come and they go. Burning Spellweave. Spell Power Cure. Olorime. Relequen. All sets that players have had to grind for to be meta, some of which were replaced by a new meta set. ZOS doesnt have a class change token because they know that meta chasers will spend hours grinding to a new BIS class.

This isnt on accident. Its deliberate on ZOS' part. Its because they are an MMO who wants players to play the game as long as possible and that means getting them to grind the game instead of feeling satisified, getting bored, and leaving.


So unfortunately, it doesnt really matter how good your suggestion is. It just wont happen. ESO's history suggests that ZOS wants more grinding, not less. ZOS wants you to play the game longer, even if your satisfaction is lessened. Thats proven by update after update by the way ZOS balances the game.

Don't like it?
That's fine. I dont much like it either.
I do, however, understand why ZOS is doing what they do. Grinding = players playing ESO longer = profits. Until that changes, I expect the grinding to continue.

Jameliel

Hamish999 wrote: »

No, just no.
You have to explore and unlock things on each toon for a reason. Without the grind the game would get boring very quickly.
Why do people want easy mode give me everything right now, where's the fun and challenge in that?

So if you get bored, don't play. I get bored grinding skill points, mage guild books, etc. Guess what I do then....... I don't play. You're saying the grind isnt boring for you,but it's the opposite for many of us. For people who love to "grind" skill points and such, let them. For those of us who don't, allow account wide sharing of skill points and such. My enjoyable grind is in Cyrodiil.

Mancombe_Nosehair

therift wrote: »

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Yea. I agree that skyshards and map should be account based. If i want to revisit something, should be for fun not the need to unlock something. Also skyshard SP should work just like CP does. That means you get the skyshards at level 50.

I overlooked your statement that the 113 skill points from skyshards would unlock at level 50.

Nevertheless, I disagree. Gifting 113 skill points to every new champion rank character would still be unfair to newer players.

You're also overlooking the other 295 skill points in the game which can only be earned by completing game content.

What you suggest is still terribly unbalanced. In my case, your suggestion would mean that every new character I create and spend a few hours levelling to champion rank would automatically be gifted with 370 skill points... enough to unlock every single skill and nearly every single passive.

I've been playing since console launch. Your system would guarantee that every newer player, or every player who has spent less time playing or completed less game content than me, would have fewer skills, less 'character power' and less financial might than me.

I can't think of anything else that would give such a tremendous advantage to older players over newer players. It's incredibly unfair, it sets a benchmark newer players would struggle to achieve, and it would drive many newer players out of the game.

You already have the ability to acquire around 100 skill points simply through levelling and walking around to outdoor skyshard locations. Zenimax has made this simple.

If this is too difficult, then, in my opinion, a single player game may be more satisfactory.

This.

therift

Regarding the issue of Mount skill, I agree this is an item that is long overdue for an improvement. It's a frequent complaint.

I'm at the point in the game of making new characters with a specific use in mind, such as PvP. Mount speed and stamina are critically important in getting to the fights where the most AP currency is earned. Yet we're offered only two ways to improve our mounts: buying mount improvements for cash, or improving mounts in-game at a pace which is locked to a single point of improvement every 20 hours.

Using cash, a mount can be improved to max value in minutes for about US$180.

In-game, improving a mount to max value is locked to a timeframe of 150 days (assuming you log in and train precisely every 20 hours)

Making mount improvements account-wide is not the solution, for the reasons I've stated earlier on fairness to newer players, considering that game currency is involved.

I'd like to see more options in-game.

Perhaps mount speed and stamina could improve passively the more your character uses her mount. This improvement rate would reduce over time, just like XP gains and levelling, but new players could improve their mounts without waiting on timers or spending gold.

Perhaps more than one lesson at a time could be purchased from the trainer for increasing amounts of gold. This would reduce a pain point for older players who have the gold and are experimenting with alternate builds.

I'm not convinced that Crown Store riding lessons are such a huge seller that Zenimax would be reluctant to improve in-game options.

Shah'linor_Vaelaris

The real disturbing thing is that all crown purchased items are not account bound but server bound...
As I said in another thread I play on ps eu server, but for summerfall I created a toon even in na server to help reaching the goal.
I found that all that I purchased in crown store, so paid with real money, were not in both servers, including dlcs...
I enjoyed reboot with nothing at all, money, cps etc, but it's ridiculous that I have to buy again items that I have already paid.
This imho is a real fail for ZO$...

idk

Can this game support sharing all those things OP is asking for. Obviously the answer is a big far YES. We already share access to unlocking styles.

Will it, Just as big of a NO.

Starting with the skill points, and yes, OP does ask for SP sharing. It is clearly unbalanced to have a level 10 character in lowbie PvP with much more skill points than someone that level would normally have. That is the first logical reason this will never happen.

Motifs are just as likely top not be shared. It is so easy to focus crafting on one or two characters. Even early in the game I had one crafter for armor and weapons ( and had the research) and another crafter with consumables. Made it easy to manage skill points that early. Of course with 350 skill points on both of those characters and more I have crafting on all, but find no reason to have the motifs on all.

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

So, can this game have such features or no?

SO again, yes this is something that can be done. However, it will not be done. Especially the skill points for the reason posted and other obvious reasons. Sorry.

Bouldercleave

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Yea. I agree that skyshards and map should be account based. If i want to revisit something, should be for fun not the need to unlock something. Also skyshard SP should work just like CP does. That means you get the skyshards at level 50.

If they held the skyshard skill points until 50, you would have a different balance issue. It would greatly interrupt the natural progression of the game. I gain SOME of the skyshard points while leveling to 50 - to hold them until you reach 50 would be a tremendous DISADVANTAGE to a player.

Sorry, but no.

FluffyDragg0n

All the people that said no. I will believe you all assuming you all had access to the games data files, code, did an extended analysis, spoke to the game lead design and were hired as paid analysts. Also did an extended survey on at least 40% of the playerbase, pooled all the answers and came to this conclusions.
Otherwise..... why?

VaranisArano

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

All the people that said no. I will believe you all assuming you all had access to the games data files, code, did an extended analysis, spoke to the game lead design and were hired as paid analysts. Also did an extended survey on at least 40% of the playerbase, pooled all the answers and came to this conclusions.
Otherwise..... why?

Because we're entirely capable of looking at the way ZOS is implementing more and more grinds into the game and extrapolating that the last thing ZOS is going to do is make that grind amazingly easy.

But it seems like the only answer you would accept is a Dev popping in here to tell you yes or no, which pretty much makes this discussion pointless.

FluffyDragg0n

Because we're entirely capable of looking at the way ZOS is implementing more and more grinds into the game and extrapolating that the last thing ZOS is going to do is make that grind amazingly easy.


how certain are you about this? and if it's true.... why agree to it? we are the playerbase. the game does not exist without us

Blacksmoke

Do you also want the best gear for free and unlimited gold and have someone play for you? If you cant put in the time and effort maybe this isnt the game for you.

FluffyDragg0n

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Do you also want the best gear for free and unlimited gold and have someone play for you? If you cant put in the time and effort maybe this isnt the game for you.

I will let you decide. Does this reply have a place in this thread? Think.

FluffyDragg0n

I have no idea how we got from collectibles to be account based to free unlimited gold. The topic is about skyshards and map exploration to be account shared for those who want. Now.... what do those replies have to do with the topic?

FluffyDragg0n

Make it a crown store purchase. Pay 5k crowns for entire tamriel unlocked on the account. boom. idea. bad, wrong. so far no one has come with a valid answer. It's unfair, its broken, gives x players advantage, gives y players a disadvantage. So broad explanations. make it concrete. make it long if necessary. but make it plausible.

Sheezabeast

Do you really expect a ZOS employee to actually come here to answer this? A quick search of the topic will show you how many threads about this have been made, and how the only time ZOS comments is when they're removing comments or editing posts of offensive nature. But tell me what makes your board more special than other peoples...

FluffyDragg0n

luton0watford4 wrote: »

therift wrote: »

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Yea. I agree that skyshards and map should be account based. If i want to revisit something, should be for fun not the need to unlock something. Also skyshard SP should work just like CP does. That means you get the skyshards at level 50.

I overlooked your statement that the 113 skill points from skyshards would unlock at level 50.

Nevertheless, I disagree. Gifting 113 skill points to every new champion rank character would still be unfair to newer players.

You're also overlooking the other 295 skill points in the game which can only be earned by completing game content.

What you suggest is still terribly unbalanced. In my case, your suggestion would mean that every new character I create and spend a few hours levelling to champion rank would automatically be gifted with 370 skill points... enough to unlock every single skill and nearly every single passive.

I've been playing since console launch. Your system would guarantee that every newer player, or every player who has spent less time playing or completed less game content than me, would have fewer skills, less 'character power' and less financial might than me.

I can't think of anything else that would give such a tremendous advantage to older players over newer players. It's incredibly unfair, it sets a benchmark newer players would struggle to achieve, and it would drive many newer players out of the game.

You already have the ability to acquire around 100 skill points simply through levelling and walking around to outdoor skyshard locations. Zenimax has made this simple.

If this is too difficult, then, in my opinion, a single player game may be more satisfactory.

This.

doesn't make sense. only in PvP this applies. and in PvP you are expected to have everything. so new players, old players. should meet some criteria if they want pvp and to win in pvp.

therift

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Make it a crown store purchase. Pay 5k crowns for entire tamriel unlocked on the account. boom. idea. bad, wrong. so far no one has come with a valid answer. It's unfair, its broken, gives x players advantage, gives y players a disadvantage. So broad explanations. make it concrete. make it long if necessary. but make it plausible.

I have given you several concrete, detailed explanations why. Go back and read my answers again. My 'plausibility' is incontrovertible to anyone with moderate experience playing this game and an interest in being kind and fair to the thousands of other people playing the game and the unknown number of people who will join in the future.

I have become convinced that no explanation, however long, detailed, and plausible will satisfy you. I am certain that if Matt Firor himself invited you to Bethesda, showed you all of the game data you wished to see, and spent patient hours explaining the science of Game Theory and the art of sharing, that you would remain completely unconvinced.

You posed a question and invited debate. Your sole response to opposing opinions has been to insinuate deceit, fraud, and anti-social attitudes on the part of your fellow players who have opposing viewpoints.

It's fine to disagree with other people's opinions. But to belittle the people with opposing views and to demand ridiculous burdens of proof from them smacks of petulance at best and dishonesty at worst.

I can only conclude that at this point that you are either trolling us all for your amusement, or that you are so lazy and greedy that you have no concern whatsoever for your fellow players.

Change my mind. Why don't you offer the detailed, plausible argument supporting your viewpoint as I and others have done, beyond a simple 'I want it my way' argument?

idk

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Make it a crown store purchase. Pay 5k crowns for entire tamriel unlocked on the account. boom. idea. bad, wrong. so far no one has come with a valid answer. It's unfair, its broken, gives x players advantage, gives y players a disadvantage. So broad explanations. make it concrete. make it long if necessary. but make it plausible.

Now you want skill points to be a crown store unlock? I do not think so. That would be a bad step towards P2W even if one had unlocked them on a different character. OMG. Lowbie PvP would be so unbalanced against new players even more than it is now.

VaranisArano

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Because we're entirely capable of looking at the way ZOS is implementing more and more grinds into the game and extrapolating that the last thing ZOS is going to do is make that grind amazingly easy.


how certain are you about this? and if it's true.... why agree to it? we are the playerbase. the game does not exist without us

You see that "Quote button there at the bottom of each post? Use it, please, it will help make this much easier to tell who you are replying to.

How certain am I?
I've been playing since before One Tamriel and been paying attention as ZOS added more and more grinds to the game. I listed relevant examples in a previous comment.

Why agree to it?
I don't.
But I'm a realist. I dont see any reason for ZOS to stop doing it. More grinding = more players playing longer = more profits.

But we're the player base!
No. You and I are but one player in the overall playerbase. As long as over the entire player base ZOS makes more money from getting players to play longer by introducing more grinds...they will continue to do so.
ZOS would rather us play longer than play happier. Playing happier might get them more money from an individual player, but playing longer makes them more money over the whole game population.

How do you know that? You're not a dev!
I know that because if it werent making them money, they'd do something different. And over the last two years, ZOS keeps doubling down on more and more grinds. Therefore, players grinding thus playing the game longer makes them more money than the alternative.

Bouldercleave

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

All the people that said no. I will believe you all assuming you all had access to the games data files, code, did an extended analysis, spoke to the game lead design and were hired as paid analysts. Also did an extended survey on at least 40% of the playerbase, pooled all the answers and came to this conclusions.
Otherwise..... why?

No, we just all think it's a bad idea. I'm sorry that a lot of people disagree with you, but there is no need to get butt hurt about it.

Banana

Yep. Thats why I dont make alts.

VaranisArano

FluffyDragg0n wrote: »

Make it a crown store purchase. Pay 5k crowns for entire tamriel unlocked on the account. boom. idea. bad, wrong. so far no one has come with a valid answer. It's unfair, its broken, gives x players advantage, gives y players a disadvantage. So broad explanations. make it concrete. make it long if necessary. but make it plausible.

Because over the whole game population, ZOS makes a lot more than 5k crowns as people level up alts - whether that's through specific leveling items or just the stuff people buy as they continue to play the game like crown crates and cosmetics and DLC. Not to mention the encouragement to subscribe to ESO+, they want those people playing longer.

If they didn't make money, they wouldnt do it.


Now, you need to prove that ZOS can make more money by selling Tamriel Unlocked in one bundle than they can by nickel and diming players as they play. And keep in mind that ZOS has to pay a base upkeep on the servers and game hardware, so a windfall of cash is not sufficient. You need a fairly steady revenue stream for that.

Sevn

As long as pvp is a part of this game, no matter how small the population, you will have pvp players wanting to curtail the game for others. They will say no to this because it gives other players an advantage over them and their one toon having selves. Same reason they are against flying mounts.

Pve players are not going to care that you can speed up the process and jump right into a vet dungeon or a vet trial with them as it doesn't put them at any disadvantage whatsoever. Speaking strictly about skyshards and lorebooks.

Lastly, you're delusional if you ever thought a dev was going to come in here and respond, the only Zos comment you'll see is them removing various posts.