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Kill the zergs.

Toc de Malsvi
Toc de Malsvi
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I had an idea that I thought might be interesting to discuss. What if the game punished players for zerging in a way that scaled and made sense?

The debuff could be called "Chaos of Battle", as a certain number of players begin to group within a small area the debuff is applied and grows with the introduction of more players. The debuff would return damage to allies from an alliances own attacks, in a scaling percentage. Getting too balled up and ulti dumping could result in killing ones own allies.

Groups could still group up and accept the extra healing requirements, but if the battle field becomes too saturated with players, groups would be strongly encouraged to withdraw distance themselves from the throng. Or press in and try to overwhelm the opponents before dying themselves.

The spreading out of zergs, should improve performance by some degree.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood
Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Templar's are evil..
  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
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    "Chaos of Battle" is always in Cyro, just follow a zerg and watch how people move back and forth. The PuG ball always fall back (or even collapse) if their front row get smashed, bombers caused a mayhem within the ball or an organized enemy group flanked them.
    AFK
  • Spartabunny08
    Spartabunny08
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    They're making changes that incentivize larger group play not smaller. They even said they don't want solo players to take resources by themselves. They said they know some will be able to and actually if you know how it's not hard but there's no way say a new player starting out in PvP could take a resource by themselves.
  • CompM4s
    CompM4s
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    For small scale battles, try out battlegrounds. Its why they made it.
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Cyrodiil is supposed to be designed for large scale group combat, specifically for groups of 2 to 24.

    The best answer is for ZOS to fix the lag and persistent performance issues. Cyrodiil used to support lots more players than it does now, and PVP would be healthier if the campaigns had more players.

    Hold ZOS accountable. No amount of changing player behavior is going to help when ZOS will not or can not fix Cyrodiil's lag and performance issues.

    And the punishment for daring to approach a 3-way faction fight at the last emp keep, in my experience, is immediate and repeated disconnection to the log in screen. How's that for a debuff?

    QFT
    Beta tester November 2013
  • dtsharples
    dtsharples
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    If you all slot Inevitable Detonation and aim it at them they pretty much melt due to their proximity.
    Shame that nobody uses the skill though ;)
  • Arkangeloski
    Arkangeloski
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    What they need to do is cap the AP for bigger groups the bigger the less you get.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    What they need to do is cap the AP for bigger groups the bigger the less you get.

    Already happens, effectively. You get less AP per player death the more people damage them.

    However, objective ticks have moved towards rewarding ALL players who contribute in some way to the fight. Thats because Cyrodiil really is designed for large scale combat! Its just that ZOS will not or can not fix the performance issues that prevent us from playing in the truly large numbers that used to PVP in Cyrodiil.
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Cyrodiil is supposed to be designed for large scale group combat, specifically for groups of 2 to 24.

    The best answer is for ZOS to fix the lag and persistent performance issues. Cyrodiil used to support lots more players than it does now, and PVP would be healthier if the campaigns had more players.

    Hold ZOS accountable. No amount of changing player behavior is going to help when ZOS will not or can not fix Cyrodiil's lag and performance issues.

    And the punishment for daring to approach a 3-way faction fight at the last emp keep, in my experience, is immediate and repeated disconnection to the log in screen. How's that for a debuff?

    I still remember fights with 100+ man guilds pushing a keep and it lagged less than it does now. The lag then seemed like it was because the client was "meh", now the lag seems server-side far too often.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    You can have large scale fights and still punish zerging a single gap. This isn't about getting rid of large fights, its about providing significant negative results for balling up in a zerg.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    You can have large scale fights and still punish zerging a single gap. This isn't about getting rid of large fights, its about providing significant negative results for balling up in a zerg.

    Like increased lag, skills not firing, and crashing to the log in screen?

    Look, last night in primetime PC/NA Vivec, Roebeck had an EP scroll and was AD's last emp keep. Thats exactly the sort of objective that should draw a massive response from AD and EP. And oh, oh, it did.

    Also lag, skills not firing, and lots and lots of crashes to log in.

    Cyrodiil is designed to draw players to objectives. A scroll and the last emp keep? Thats an important objective! Lots of players ought to be able to respond to that sort of important objective.

    It is 100% the fault of ZOS that players who are fighting for the objectives of Cyrodiil as designed have to deal with lag and persistent performance issues.
  • _Crow
    _Crow
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    You also got to think of this. More people like playing in zergs then don't. The people who don't are the loud minority, and the people who do are the silent majority, thats why zergs exist and always will. The game was made for MASSIVE fights, and like people are saying, the lag is 100% ZOS's fault. If players playing the game causes lag, then it's not the players fault.
    GM: Army of the Pact
    Loves War almost as much as Tbagging
    -Crow, Mag DK
    -Murder of Crows, Stam Warden
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Elong wrote: »
    _Crow wrote: »
    You also got to think of this. More people like playing in zergs then don't. The people who don't are the loud minority, and the people who do are the silent majority, thats why zergs exist and always will. The game was made for MASSIVE fights, and like people are saying, the lag is 100% ZOS's fault. If players playing the game causes lag, then it's not the players fault.

    Doesn't mean you should run around with 65 players in 3 raids (not an exaggeration, this number was confirmed last night) in prime time and not expect people to get upset though eh mate?

    :D
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Elong wrote: »
    _Crow wrote: »
    You also got to think of this. More people like playing in zergs then don't. The people who don't are the loud minority, and the people who do are the silent majority, thats why zergs exist and always will. The game was made for MASSIVE fights, and like people are saying, the lag is 100% ZOS's fault. If players playing the game causes lag, then it's not the players fault.

    Doesn't mean you should run around with 65 players in 3 raids (not an exaggeration, this number was confirmed last night) in prime time and not expect people to get upset though eh mate?

    Was this when all of EP was pushing Roebeck to get our Scroll back and the AD emperor dethroned by any chance?

    If so, heaven forbid that lots of EP show up to fight for a doubly important objective. Won't someone think of the server performance?!
    Edited by VaranisArano on September 30, 2018 1:15PM
  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    Friendly fire on...
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Elong
    Elong
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    Elong wrote: »
    _Crow wrote: »
    You also got to think of this. More people like playing in zergs then don't. The people who don't are the loud minority, and the people who do are the silent majority, thats why zergs exist and always will. The game was made for MASSIVE fights, and like people are saying, the lag is 100% ZOS's fault. If players playing the game causes lag, then it's not the players fault.

    Doesn't mean you should run around with 65 players in 3 raids (not an exaggeration, this number was confirmed last night) in prime time and not expect people to get upset though eh mate?

    Was this when all of EP was pushing Roebeck to get our Scroll back and the AD emperor dethroned by any chance?

    If so, heaven forbid that lots of EP show up to fight for a doubly important objective. Won't someone think of the server performance?!

    No.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Elong wrote: »
    Elong wrote: »
    _Crow wrote: »
    You also got to think of this. More people like playing in zergs then don't. The people who don't are the loud minority, and the people who do are the silent majority, thats why zergs exist and always will. The game was made for MASSIVE fights, and like people are saying, the lag is 100% ZOS's fault. If players playing the game causes lag, then it's not the players fault.

    Doesn't mean you should run around with 65 players in 3 raids (not an exaggeration, this number was confirmed last night) in prime time and not expect people to get upset though eh mate?

    Was this when all of EP was pushing Roebeck to get our Scroll back and the AD emperor dethroned by any chance?

    If so, heaven forbid that lots of EP show up to fight for a doubly important objective. Won't someone think of the server performance?!

    No.

    Okay.
  • tonemd
    tonemd
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    OPs Idea IS interesting, but don't have it trigger only when players mass. Just have it turned on when you enter Cyro and set it really low, like 2%. Maybe only apply it to only AOE attacks. That way it's inconsequential when only around a few players, but starts to approach a light attack or greater impact when faction stacked. It makes sense to the worlds logic as well.

    As long as the additional calculations don't add to worse performance, that might be a good addition.
  • Dominion_Nightblade
    Chrlynsch wrote: »
    Friendly fire on...

    Horry cow that would be hilarious.. I'm all for friendly fire though :) aoe zergs would be killin themselves.
  • Deep_01
    Deep_01
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    Just make a new non cp camp that punishes zerging and rewards solo play only. I'd switch to that in an instant.
    @Deepan on PC-EU
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