Let's talk about the magicka warden nerfs

MLGProPlayer

The recent class rep notes included this bit:

In terms of damage output, at least when it comes to a target dummy parse, we did acknowledge the classes are relatively close to each other

This is concerning because magicka warden DPS has never been lower than it is on PTS right now (and it was always extremely low). Magdens are parsing around 15% behind all of the other magicka classes (around 50k vs. 57k at the high end).

This all started when ZOS castrated the bear. They nerfed its DPS by 30% while buffing some other skills to compensate. However, those other buffs came nowhere near to making up the lost DPS. Even without the bear nerf, magicka wardens would likely still have the lowest DPS in the game.

Another factor that makes playing a magden so tough is that they don't have any group utility. A casual player may glance at the warden's skills and see a ton of heals and buffs. However, all of those are attached to healing and tanking skills. Not one (other than an AOE major breach for clearing trash mobs, hooray!) is attached to DPS abilities. Warden DPS skills only deal damage. No group buffs. No target debuffs. Just pure damage, and low damage at that. Replacing a single DPS ability with a utility skill reduces their DPS even further.

So, I implore all magden players, if there are still any of you left after spending 15 months in the gutter, to make your voices heard on the PTS forum and to not let ZOS launch this patch without reverting the nerfs to this class, and possibly even buffing it some more to get it closer to the other classes.

As a side question, is there anyone who thought that magicka wardens needed a nerf? Were people seeing too many of them in vet trials? Were they topping PvP leader boards?

Namarkas

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Another factor that makes playing a magden so tough is that they don't have any group utility. A casual player may glance at the warden's skills and see a ton of heals and buffs. However, all of those are attached to healing and tanking skills. Not one (other than an AOE minor fracture for clearing trash mobs, hooray!) is attached to DPS abilities.

In all fairness, it's major fracture or breech, which can be pretty massive dependant on the situation. Now with decreased cost, it can be even stronger. And trash needs to be killed too, sometimes quick trash kills make the difference.
I don't know about current parses, but I guess with the possibility to run a shalk rotation Wardens might(?) have been overperforming with the strongest bear dps setup. Which is sadly the only setup they were viable atm, and only because the major slayer sets are so imbalanced in regards to the class that uses it.
On the side question: I don't think so, I just think they were scared that buffing wardens in that way could maybe have made them too stronk, so they gave the banhammer a good swing. Just another day at ESO

keevil111

No, magdens did not need a nerf. The bear nerf sucks and the arctic blast change sucks, too.

BUT! Magden is not set up to be on par with other magicka DDs. It is more of a utility class, able to perform all roles very well.

If they buff magden damage too much we would be OP with heals and tanky options.

I would like to see the frost line get buffed up for more damage and less tankiness. Along with the frost staff. That would make me very happy.

MLGProPlayer

keevil111 wrote: »

No, magdens did not need a nerf. The bear nerf sucks and the arctic blast change sucks, too.

BUT! Magden is not set up to be on par with other magicka DDs. It is more of a utility class, able to perform all roles very well.

If they buff magden damage too much we would be OP with heals and tanky options.

I would like to see the frost line get buffed up for more damage and less tankiness. Along with the frost staff. That would make me very happy.

The problem is that they're still second rate healers and tanks compared to templar and DK. And DPS magdens provide zero utility. It would be understandable that their DPS is lower IF they provided utility, but they have the lowest utility of any DPS class as well as the lowest damage.

MLGProPlayer

No one plays magicka warden anymore? Makes sense considering the state they've been in for 15 months now (and just received another round of nerfs).

Cronopoly

This must be a sarcasm post...

Lylith

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

No one plays magicka warden anymore? Makes sense considering the state they've been in for 15 months now (and just received another round of nerfs).

so my magwarden will stay on the shelf for the foreseeable future.

Anhedonie

I already made my points clear in official PTS thread. No point in repeating myself. I'll return to the game in next patch (5-6 months) and see if any changes are made. If not, this will be my last visit, I hope.

rumple9

Northern storm is better than the bear anyway

WuffyCerulei

The changes for the magden isn't as bad as it seems. I managed to pull a 39k parse on a 6 mill without the bear.

Sylvermynx

I have a very "young" magden. Level 17.... I find her fun to play in PVE, but it's all solo - my ping is so awful I just don't group.

Razorback174

But hey, they nerfed aggressive warhorn!

Want minor toughness? Gotta bring a warden now.

This is incredibly lazy and bad game design. But I can say that about this entire Murkmire update.

I can't understand why people want to add more classes to this game. They can't even balance the first new one they introduced over a year ago.

Jameliel

For a start, the skills that scale off health need to be changed to magic. Whoever implemented the health idea needs to be fired. Period point blank...no sugar coating or compromise. They should be escorted from whatever building they work out of. Next up, whoever came up with the frost staff tanking idea needs to he severely reprimanded and possibly fired as well. Its astounding how some of these ideas ever made it live. Speaks volumes about experience and intelligence. Besides this it makes it clear these designers are not playing the game much if any at all. It's disgusting.

MLGProPlayer

Razorback174 wrote: »

But hey, they nerfed aggressive warhorn!

Want minor toughness? Gotta bring a warden now.

This is incredibly lazy and bad game design. But I can say that about this entire Murkmire update.

I can't understand why people want to add more classes to this game. They can't even balance the first new one they introduced over a year ago.

Rather than buffing wardens so groups actually want to bring them along, they're forcing groups into bringing them. It's terrible game design. And of course this only affects warden healers (and possibly tanks) since DPS won't be applying group heals.

MLGProPlayer

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

The changes for the magden isn't as bad as it seems. I managed to pull a 39k parse on a 6 mill without the bear.

I'm sure you'd be getting 5k+ with any other magicka class at that level.

In a vacuum, magden numbers might not seem bad, but when compared to the other classes, they are.

Zardayne

Anhedonie wrote: »

I already made my points clear in official PTS thread. No point in repeating myself. I'll return to the game in next patch (5-6 months) and see if any changes are made. If not, this will be my last visit, I hope.

This is pretty what I'm planning to do. There's new MMOs coming down the pipe so I'll hold out for a more experienced team. ZOS sure made a beautiful world but when it comes to skills and balance I've always felt they are in over their head. They prove me right time after time too with all of their boneheaded moves. I swear all they do is throw random shite out there and hope to hell it sticks. I've never seen nothing like it. Like someone else said, it's lazy..