Proof zos caters to sorcery over every other class.

Shadowasrial

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

Turelus

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

Kadoin

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

And what magic sets are those? Also, heard of absorb magic? It works well, really well.

Daedric_NB_187

El oh el

Anken5

The health cap is worst than the cast, so...

Shadowasrial

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

iiYuki

Shield changes affected all magicka light armour classes not just Sorcerers.

Shadowasrial

iiYuki wrote: »

Shield changes affected all magicka light armour classes not just Sorcerers.

Yes but it was mostly the sorcs who cried the most and even in thier “discussion” they mentioned sorcs were the most affected by this and “unplayable”

Turelus

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

I don't think all the other balance changes were as controversial as this one though. Yes everyone's had buffs or nerfs, but none so drastically out of line with the expectations of the game as adding a cast time to a defensive skill (at least none I can recall).

Also things are different now in that we also have the class reps who could go to ZOS and make clear arguments as to why this wasn't a good change. In the past all ZOS had to work with was hyperbolic ranting on the forums.

They've changed their path on things in the past as well. This isn't the first time something has come out with X but become Y by the end of PTS.

The_Brosteen

Wild guess here, do you just so happen to play an archer stam nb?

Shadowasrial

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Wild guess here, do you just so happen to play an archer stam nb?

No I play a dw 2h stam nb get it right

Reistr_the_Unbroken

This whole theme fits when everything is normal, then the forms explode in nerfs at the end and I’m not sure why
🤔

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8QPEVQp1MZw
Edit: to me at least it seems that way

Emma_Overload

No other class has EVER been nerfed as hard as Sorcerers.... over and over and over.

Morgul667

Even non sorc people acknowledge this was a bad change

Nightbades are in a good spot.

The_Brosteen

I do like the "When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed."

#makeprocsetsgreatagain amiright

HowlKimchi

Read up

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1

The revert of the cast time was because of the community and not ZOS.

BalticBlues

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No other class has EVER been nerfed as hard as Sorcerers.... over and over and over.

Unfotunately, yes, just a few examples:
- shields down to 6s
- streak costs rising with use (while Cloaking is not)
- frags lost CC
- Runecage dodgeable
- 3rd bar completely removed next patch
- Overload light attack nerfed -50% next patch
- shields receiving crit damage next patch
- shields capped at 40% HP next patch
... shall I continue? The next patch still is crippling.

In PvP, from now on I will only play my NB, even though I find Cloak to be (ch)easymode.
And my Sorc? Is becoming...

BalticBlues wrote: »

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I lost my 3rd bar, Overload and Shield power."

Turelus

BalticBlues wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No other class has EVER been nerfed as hard as Sorcerers.... over and over and over.

Unfotunately, yes, just a few examples:
- shields down to 6s
- streak costs rising with use (while Cloaking is not)
- frags lost CC
- Runecage dodgeable
- 3rd bar completely gone with next patch
- Overload light attack nerfed for -50%
- shields receiving crit damage with next patch
- shieldss capped at 40% with next patch

... shall I continue?
Even though the cast time is gone, the next patch still is crippling.

I'll just leave this here.

GallantGuardian

Turelus wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

I don't think all the other balance changes were as controversial as this one though. Yes everyone's had buffs or nerfs, but none so drastically out of line with the expectations of the game as adding a cast time to a defensive skill (at least none I can recall).

Also things are different now in that we also have the class reps who could go to ZOS and make clear arguments as to why this wasn't a good change. In the past all ZOS had to work with was hyperbolic ranting on the forums.

They've changed their path on things in the past as well. This isn't the first time something has come out with X but become Y by the end of PTS.

Repentance .... that was pretty controversial ... no other class has ever had to fight for sustain

Lord_Eomer

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

Sorc took only nerf since last year and are you still complaining about sorc?

This class is going to be weakest anyway!

usmguy1234

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

A nightblade complaining about lack of favoritism... color me amused.

Imperial_Voice

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

A nightblade complaining about lack of favoritism... color me amused.

Right? ZoS favorite child mad that its sibling got a new toy.

Fleshreaper

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Over the years every class has had nerfs undesirable to them, and every time they cry about it it seems to fall on deaf ears. But now the sorcs finally had thier dues coming and they cried and instead of following through like they have with every other class they caved and gave in. This is unacceptable. Why should one class get special consideration over all the other classes receiving nerfs? Nb critical damage builds were nerfed into the grave and left to rot. You capped crit chance, nerfed crit from stealth and sneak damage bonuses. We have impen as the primary trait choice in pvp. And now there is even talk of nerfing speed as well as the already known dodge chance. When ever a stam class gets an armor set that can effectively kill a shield stacking mag sorc it gets nerfed. All the while magic sets remain untouched. This is complete and utter favoritism. End rant

I hear ya, I do and I mostly agree. However, something to think about. When trying to find out what works and what does not work, you must first have a control subject. This just happens to be the sorc. ZOS uses the sorc as the base line and nerfs and/or buffs around the death to kill ratio. We the players do not have these numbers and we just have to "trust" ZOS to be fair. With this in mind, it's clear that sorcs are focus and I believe that is why they will always be a little more over powered then any other class.

Turelus

usmguy1234 wrote: »

A nightblade complaining about lack of favoritism... color me amused.

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Right? ZoS favorite child mad that its sibling got a new toy.

A year ago everyone was saying the same about Sorcerer. ZOS changes their favouritism on a yearly basis it seems.

Malyck

Shadowasrial wrote: »

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

Maybe this is a first. they listened to the community and the class leads. In the end their goal will still be accomplished by other means, but it won't affect the fluidity of combat as much. I play all classes and I rely on shields on many of them, so I am OK with the new proposed changes.

I applaud ZOS for listening and making compromises on this change. Hopefully this can lead the way forward on future changes.

pod88kk

The stamina version of each class hits harder than it's magicka version soooooo

visionality

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

Sorcs have been nerfed continuously over the last 12 monts, and the only tradeoff buff - rune cage unavoidable in exchange for the nerf of crystal frags - has been turned into a double-nerf within 12 weeks. So claiming sorcs would get special treatment by ZOS is just outright wrong. More telling might be the fact that a massive number of ppl have canceled their subscriptions since the sheld-nerf was published. ZOS hopes to give them the illusion they have listend to their anger and their arguments while in fact shields still are completely gutted, at least for PVP.

And on a side note: Complaining that one toxic nerf has been exchanged for another toxic nerf for a class you clearly despise is a sign of pathetic social and empathic abilities.

Hymzir

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe if we spent less time saying ZOS plays favourites or arguing about X vs Y and focused on providing clear feedback with evidence and no bias in the correct threads, we'd be listened to more often. Just a thought.

Also this was a change considered by many across the game as a bad change. Shields are still getting smacked down, just in a way more in line with expectations of how the game plays.

While I agree it is still a huge nerf to mag classes I’m more angry about the fact they caved about the cast time. Every other class has given loads of feedback about why thier class skill shouldn’t be nerfed and they never once retracted a nerf for the sake of feedback. This is a first and to be frank it’s not right that everyone else’s feedback was ignored over the years

It's actually not the first time they retracted a nerf due to community feedback... Remember when they wanted to nerf Haunting Curse? Sorcs were angry and made a lot of noise about it. In the end, not only was the nerf reverted, they ended up buffing Haunting Curse. So at least they didn't buff shields this time.

For a long long time, the general mood on the forums was that everyone over at ZOS played Sorcs and only Sorcs, 'cause they were never nerfed and only buffed. That was, of course, before the rise of the Nightblades, and after the fall of Vampire DKs. I still remember way back when NBs were a joke class, and how ridiculously OP DKs were at launch.

But it is true, that Sorcs have never had to deal with class destroying nerfs, the kind that force you to not only change your build and gear, but your playstyle as well. And that is why I think people put up such a clamor about the cast time. People, who have mostly played other classes since launch, have had to re-invent their builds and playstyles several times, so they are used to it. Sorcs have been mostly spared from this, and while there have been small diversions as stuff got changed, nerfed and buffed over the years, the core playstyle of the sorc has been the same for the past 4 years. Cast time on shields would have been the end of that.

Anyway, on topic, I like to think, that the reason, they caved in on the cast time, was due to the Class Rep thing. That things went differently this time because there was a way for the community to get through to the devs, and not due to Sorc favoritism. Hopefully, they will listen to the reps in future too, about any similarly disliked changes about to hit some other class.

Haashhtaag

Shadowasrial wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

Shield changes affected all magicka light armour classes not just Sorcerers.

Yes but it was mostly the sorcs who cried the most and even in thier “discussion” they mentioned sorcs were the most affected by this and “unplayable”

I would say all LA characters complained but sorcs being the most effected brought out more.

Yellow_Monolith

I wish Zos would do something about the state of Mag warden.

Kuramas9tails

EVERY CLASS NEEDS NERFED