Post NERF by Class

Cronopoly

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

Savos_Saren

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

PickleRick

Yo, I know you’re not suggesting Magika Warden is in a great place.

In all seriousness, Mag Sorc seems like it will have to be played like a knock off mageblade to be viable. Which is unfortunate because we had two very distinct ranged Magika classes and now they’ll be more homogeneous. The Harness/Hardened nerfs are awful but the healing ward upfront heal morph is the final nail in the coffin because it forces you to find HoTs or passive healing to get your health out of execute range without using another GCD or you risk getting melted through your shields.

Cronopoly

Savos_Saren wrote: »

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

I play all of them in roles mostly (ROCK flashback there) I just hate to see my 1st love Sorc so neutered / diminished (in my mind)
- PVE DPS - I love my baby Nightblade (gave her all my DK BSW DPS gear tbh lol)
- PVE Tank - my DK brute "always," I've dabbled in the past and made other Tanks, NB which I loved, nerf hit, then finally respecced her to her DPS glory.
- Healing Templar - Use my Argonian to PVP/PVE heal, she's just so strong. And once I find a group for Earthgore, (I need the helm) i'll move on to harder content...side note: (I'm CP 881, went in Forge with CP's Avg <450...2.5 hours later, the mechanics got us on the last Boss (No HM). Timer ran out for dropped gear swaps, out of repair kits...We didn't know to point the "Side" mechanics at the lava and bosses...lol)
- Warden - My newest Master Crafter - never fell in love with the class for some reason honestly. Tried the Ice Mage thingy, for a bit but didn't appeal to me, as it was obvious the ICE line was only there for tanking. Great ICE Ultimate but interest waned.

Cronopoly

PickleRick wrote: »

Yo, I know you’re not suggesting Magika Warden is in a great place.

In all seriousness, Mag Sorc seems like it will have to be played like a knock off mageblade to be viable. Which is unfortunate because we had two very distinct ranged Magika classes and now they’ll be more homogeneous. The Harness/Hardened nerfs are awful but the healing ward upfront heal morph is the final nail in the coffin because it forces you to find HoTs or passive healing to get your health out of execute range without using another GCD or you risk getting melted through your shields.

Truly I don't main a MagWarden, and only dabbled, so yeah you are spot on. I cannot speak to Warden as much.

Ozazz

@Savos_Saren shelve your class as its become worse/irrelevant and play mine there is no worse mentality to exert on this game than what you just did.

VaranisArano

Thats actually a pretty good description of this patch's nerfs.

ZOS: "Too much cannon, not enough glass. Lets change that!"

StamWhipCultist

yet anther qq thread.

Cronopoly

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

yet anther qq thread.

Deleted comment as I went overboard...

ak_pvp

Er, DK lost their core tanking to warden.
A warden tank beats DK in raw tankiness and tankiness with damage. It has better sustain (DK has better raw stat sustain, but higher drain) and has better healing.
A DK only is no1 in PvE because they provide a flames and something better than toughness, plus people are used to them. If you look at PvP, where core tanking and SYG based offense reaches its limits (PvE tanks spec for buffs too) then NB bests them for pure survival, and warden for allrounder damage tank.

Sorc was meant to be the fastest spook in the west, being squishy relatively, but putting the enemies on their toes by being able to deliver an impactful burst and moving around. They'd use that to get enemies where they want, and then surprise them with that burst. It has lost a lot of that.

Vahrokh

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

Why would someone who want to DPS, play a DK or Templar or an hybrid?

VaranisArano

Vahrokh wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

Why would someone who want to DPS, play a DK or Templar or an hybrid?

The regular chorus of templar, DK, and warden DDs who don't want to be healers or tanks complaining about how they are still behind in DPS?

Vahrokh

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

Why would someone who want to DPS, play a DK or Templar or an hybrid?

The regular chorus of templar, DK, and warden DDs who don't want to be healers or tanks complaining about how they are still behind in DPS?

When I rolled a sorc I knew and accepted the Ancient Triad Contract: you'll be a mage, you are a pure DPS class, you'll SUCK at tanking and be bad at healing.

When DKs started, they knew they were the "warrior archetype" and warriors are top tier tanks in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. Their very icon is a sword and shield.

When templars started, they knew they were the "healer archetype" and templars are top tier healers in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. To the the point that those who in WoW tried to DPS were denigrated as "lolret" (Retribution spec Paladin).

Who rolled a warden knew he'd be a sort-of hybrid and in every MMO hybrids suck, because they are jacks of all the trades and masters of none. They still manage to be very good tanks and healers.

It's really that simple.

I rolled a mage. I knew I'd have sucked at all but DPS and accepted it.

Now ZOS, changed the "contract" and makes sorcs mediocre DPS (at Murkmire DPS tests, templars do more DPS and Wardens are close) and STILL suck at tanking and healing.

Where's the deal? The trade off? If I play a pure class I DEMAND that zero versatility corresponds to top performance in the one specialist niche. Below melee but not by 10k+.

Else, the game balance is simply broken.

f047ys3v3n

Honestly, I main mSorc and the moment and think mNb got wrecked more than sorc. Sure, I lost my nice sheild, but is it only slightly better than a harness shield anyway. NB lost that harness shield that it is every bit as dependent on as I am on mine and all magic toons are as we are basically squish balls with no health that can only block like 2 hits.

Aside from loosing shields, mNB's took it to the face in several other ways as well. They will now provide no group benefit at all though passive heals as all damage was removed from refreshing path and the damage from funnel has been halved so that the morph cannot be used. Similarly, their self heals are pretty garbage now as they can't do refreshing and swallow soul got a 10% nerf by removing the minor whatever. mNB's will be one of the weakest builds for self heals and offer no passive group heals, ouch.

If that wern't enough, mNB sustain was wrecked with the cast cost on relentless procs. Sure, we sorcs already had that on shards but we have decent DoT's and so can do a full heavy every rotation even if it is boring and miserable. The mNB DoT's are basically garbage. They are dependent on those procs and on being about to sustain with no full heavies for their damage.

As wrecked as Sorcs are getting, I fancy mNB's are getting worse. What they are getting reminds me of what templars got a few years ago that just made them completely non-functional for years. And really, mag players not using cheat engine for resistances are not really going to do so well anyway as they have been dependent on sheilds since the removal of soft caps, and making of every fight a big dps race, made health a thing of the past.

Vahrokh

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Honestly, I main mSorc and the moment and think mNb got wrecked more than sorc. Sure, I lost my nice sheild, but is it only slightly better than a harness shield anyway. NB lost that harness shield that it is every bit as dependent on as I am on mine and all magic toons are as we are basically squish balls with no health that can only block like 2 hits.

Aside from loosing shields, mNB's took it to the face in several other ways as well. They will now provide no group benefit at all though passive heals as all damage was removed from refreshing path and the damage from funnel has been halved so that the morph cannot be used. Similarly, their self heals are pretty garbage now as they can't do refreshing and swallow soul got a 10% nerf by removing the minor whatever. mNB's will be one of the weakest builds for self heals and offer no passive group heals, ouch.

If that wern't enough, mNB sustain was wrecked with the cast cost on relentless procs. Sure, we sorcs already had that on shards but we have decent DoT's and so can do a full heavy every rotation even if it is boring and miserable. The mNB DoT's are basically garbage. They are dependent on those procs and on being about to sustain with no full heavies for their damage.

As wrecked as Sorcs are getting, I fancy mNB's are getting worse. What they are getting reminds me of what templars got a few years ago that just made them completely non-functional for years. And really, mag players not using cheat engine for resistances are not really going to do so well anyway as they have been dependent on sheilds since the removal of soft caps, and making of every fight a big dps race, made health a thing of the past.

Well, I don't trust my magblade playing skill enough to give authoritative numbers. So I have checked other guys magblade solo parse videos on Youtube. The DPS is still the top for magicka builds (with templars getting much closers, the next meta could be N magblades + N templars for progression trials. What got nuked is the regen, that might require 1 regen enchant if the healers bubbles won't be enough. I am kinda against this "stringy" regen, because imo it does not make the game more challenging, but only more miserable.

VaranisArano

Vahrokh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

Why would someone who want to DPS, play a DK or Templar or an hybrid?

The regular chorus of templar, DK, and warden DDs who don't want to be healers or tanks complaining about how they are still behind in DPS?

When I rolled a sorc I knew and accepted the Ancient Triad Contract: you'll be a mage, you are a pure DPS class, you'll SUCK at tanking and be bad at healing.

When DKs started, they knew they were the "warrior archetype" and warriors are top tier tanks in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. Their very icon is a sword and shield.

When templars started, they knew they were the "healer archetype" and templars are top tier healers in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. To the the point that those who in WoW tried to DPS were denigrated as "lolret" (Retribution spec Paladin).

Who rolled a warden knew he'd be a sort-of hybrid and in every MMO hybrids suck, because they are jacks of all the trades and masters of none. They still manage to be very good tanks and healers.

It's really that simple.

I rolled a mage. I knew I'd have sucked at all but DPS and accepted it.

Now ZOS, changed the "contract" and makes sorcs mediocre DPS (at Murkmire DPS tests, templars do more DPS and Wardens are close) and STILL suck at tanking and healing.

Where's the deal? The trade off? If I play a pure class I DEMAND that zero versatility corresponds to top performance in the one specialist niche. Below melee but not by 10k+.

Else, the game balance is simply broken.

ZOS broke the "contract" when they gutted Templars to make Wardens decent and desired healers.

Savos_Saren

Ozazz wrote: »

@Savos_Saren shelve your class as its become worse/irrelevant and play mine there is no worse mentality to exert on this game than what you just did.

Vahrokh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

-- DK's were nerfed into the ground off of Godhood tanking in Light Armor, and payed for it with several Nerfs over time. The Internet vellum is not long enough to list them all.
They NEVER lost Core TANKING ability and in your face pressure. (Side note: I hate playing against DK's in PVP but respect them all the same)

-- Templars Core mechanics nerfed with Morrowind to make room for Warden Sales. (I cannot understate how pissed I was after the Nerfs that caused many Templar main players to quit, I took a 6 month hiatus from the game)
Templars NEVER lost Core Healing mastery

-- Nightblades have been plagued by some broken mechanics, and a beloved Siphon Tanking method of play given the (Sony NGE touch) by ZOS
Nightblades NEVER Lost the core Touch of Death DPS and are the strongest DPS class in PVP and PVE.

-- Wardens 1+ year old bebe's are Jack of all trades basically and Heal / Tank really well. Mediocre DPS. Lost their Sub's Stun pissing them off.

-- Sorcerers have been constantly nerfed over time. The FROG SLOWLY BOILED - Not saying that the prior nerfs to skills that the ZOS combat team designed in the 1st place...
Streak - Increased Cost plus self Root
Frags - Loss of Stun
Rune Cage ZOS knew it was OP (And was repeatedly advised on PTS) but it went live anyway...Sorc players get blamed.
Bound Armaments - Loss of Toggle, now mostly used for "Slotted" passive abilities (visual was cool as well)
Overload Ultimate (proposed)...PTS testing jury is still out...
Overload Bar (proposed)
Ward Shields (proposed) Crittable, >1 sec cast time, Interruptable (trashed)
Pets - Sigh...
Sorc's NEVER Lost what? Their Glass cannon status? Any Sorc would be lying if they say they have no DPS. Obviously they can DPS and well. They are losing their resilience under pressure. In PVE Vet content typically, certain Lieutenant mobs would charge a stun, and Sorcs could react and put up a shield real quick and block. I won't mention the Pay to Win Psijic Shield thingy... Some are saying the changes promote pre-casting shields, and really Helps Healers feel beloved and wanted in a sort of snowfl... SJW type of way... (btw, if you are offended then don't play a game that centers on Murder) Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to remind anyone of that...

If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE...

PVP P.S.
That all said, again should the changes go live, there's no reason to step into PVP as any class wearing Light Armor. Stamina has won the Gold, Heavy gets the Silver, and Light armor has been disqualified and has been sent home... So who are we going to be getting Realm points from. The new PVP most cancelled quest will be "Kill 20 Sorcs..."

In light of what you pointed out of the three classes (DK, Warden, Templar) you still say at the bottom, bolded part: "If this round of Nerfs goes live, Why should ANYONE play a Sorc over a Nightblade? In PVP or PVE..."

So even after you've pointed out that DKs, Wardens, and Templars are still strong- you still don't even consider playing any of those classes over a Sorc or a Nightblade…

Just sayin'...

Why would someone who want to DPS, play a DK or Templar or an hybrid?

The regular chorus of templar, DK, and warden DDs who don't want to be healers or tanks complaining about how they are still behind in DPS?

When I rolled a sorc I knew and accepted the Ancient Triad Contract: you'll be a mage, you are a pure DPS class, you'll SUCK at tanking and be bad at healing.

When DKs started, they knew they were the "warrior archetype" and warriors are top tier tanks in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. Their very icon is a sword and shield.

When templars started, they knew they were the "healer archetype" and templars are top tier healers in every game (not just MMOs). They knew this. To the the point that those who in WoW tried to DPS were denigrated as "lolret" (Retribution spec Paladin).

Who rolled a warden knew he'd be a sort-of hybrid and in every MMO hybrids suck, because they are jacks of all the trades and masters of none. They still manage to be very good tanks and healers.

It's really that simple.

I rolled a mage. I knew I'd have sucked at all but DPS and accepted it.

Now ZOS, changed the "contract" and makes sorcs mediocre DPS (at Murkmire DPS tests, templars do more DPS and Wardens are close) and STILL suck at tanking and healing.

Where's the deal? The trade off? If I play a pure class I DEMAND that zero versatility corresponds to top performance in the one specialist niche. Below melee but not by 10k+.

Else, the game balance is simply broken.

Strange, though.

Damage dealers complained that Templars were over perfoming in their heals. They got nerfed and had to adjust their gameplay.
Damage dealers complained that DKs were over performing in their tankiness. They got nered and had to adjust their gameplay.

Damage dealers applauded any changes that would allow them to kill Tanks and Healers faster in PVP. And now these damage dealers are "over performing" in PVP (because they got the tanks and healers nerfed). So what do you think ZOS's reaction is going to be?

They're going to nerf survivability for damage dealers so that they have to respec away from damage and put more points toward resistances.

I think nightblades are next. No more "oh ***" buttons where you instantly get a huge shield or you can instantly cloak through DOTs. No more immediately reengaging a fight.

Edited because of autocorrect.