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It's too easy..TOO EASY TO THROW UP EFFECTIVE HEALTH WITH A FEW BUTTONS.
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Spectacular grouping of random thoughts. I applaud you.
yet another salty sorc. Nothing to see here, move on.
Interesting that you would say that to a long time Stamblade.
Was talking about OP. Seems rather obvious, rlly.
He's talking about me. The op. Who is a stamblade.2 -
nryerson1025✭✭✭✭nryerson1025 wrote: »The default control for roll dodging on pc actually requires you to press two buttons. 2x as difficult as casting a shield
If somebody uses the default option I don't care what they think about balance. Same with first person.
Like seriously, double tap for rolldodge? It's 2018 and not the damn middle ages.
EDIT: whooosh
not sure why you took my reply so seriously lol. i'm not actually arguing dodge rolling is two times as hard because you need to double tap0 -
Path✭✭✭✭✭Try Role-playing. You may find it more challenging.Fairy Tales Really Do Come True...Kinda.2 -
StamWhipCultist✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Spectacular grouping of random thoughts. I applaud you.
yet another salty sorc. Nothing to see here, move on.
Interesting that you would say that to a long time Stamblade.
Was talking about OP. Seems rather obvious, rlly.
He's talking about me. The op. Who is a stamblade.
why crying then?0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Comparison of shields and dodge roll pre-doomsday-patch:
Shields- Protects against AOE
- Protect against DOTs
- Protect against crits
- Synergies well with HOTs
- Good against decent burst
- Vulnerable against execution effects if on low life
- Consumes the GCD
Dodge roll- Doesn't protect against AOE at all
- Doesn't protect against DOTs at all
- Gives complete mitgation of most single target abilites, some still apply secondary effects.
- Gives snare and root immunity
- Is on a seperate cooldown from the GCD
- Has stacking costs
Conclusion: In PVE Shields are almost always better than dodgeroll due to the sheer amount of ground AOEs and otherwise undodgeable mechanics. Because magicka characters don't really use stamina for anything unless a mechanic dictates it, dodgeroll should almost always be available for them, essentially giving them a huge edge on stam characters.
In PVP its a different story. Most AOEs can be relatively easily avoided and generally deal way less damage than their single target counterpart. Because of this dodgeroll is a much better option there.
Due to the nature of the two defensive mechanics shield have a slight advantage in 1v1 and Xv1 situations while in 1vX dodgeroll vastly outperforms anything else until the stacking costs make it unviable to use.
Post-patch comparison:
Lol, still using shields in 2k18. Git gud scrub. Rekt.
First of all the bolded part. One roll dodge can mitigate damage of multiple skills thus it can be way more effective than shields that usually can take single attack + LA (now with critable shields even less).
Meaning usually:
1 shield = 1 offensive skill + LA
1 dodge = 1 or X of offensive skills and light attacks (where X can be even 100)
Ignoring GCD is so powerful feature but nobody talks about it. You can hit skill into roll dodge, than again hit some nukes into roll dodge dealing massive amount of damage while avoiding most if not all incoming damage, even if those damage come from multiple players.
Some secondary effects go through roll dodge, that's true, but through shields its every secondary effect. When you roll dodge flame reach, you mitigate not only initial burst but also dot and CC which makes roll dodge far better defensive mechanic. Shields protect just from damage and give nothing more.
...also roll dodge doesn't use a skill bar slot, doesn't require high resource pool to be effective meaning you can be super tanky and roll dodge still does the same what it does on full damage setup, allows you to reposition your self to use LoS or take you out of melee range.
Seriously, saying that shields are superior to roll dodge is blasphemy. You ever saw best solo PvPers? The best magicka players use higher stamina pool to be able to roll dodge more because it's so amazing defensive mechanic.
And just one question. What other defensive mechanic should use LA users if you say shields are cheese? Hmm I'm waiting. It's like saying that using roll dodge on stamina is cheese and you need to git gud.
Edited by Mayrael on September 23, 2018 7:42AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭dont play with 16k health.
if its possible to put points to increase your character's health and you are not using it in favor of damage, you have to suspect yourself.
PC EU0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭StamWhipCultist wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Spectacular grouping of random thoughts. I applaud you.
yet another salty sorc. Nothing to see here, move on.
Interesting that you would say that to a long time Stamblade.
Was talking about OP. Seems rather obvious, rlly.
He's talking about me. The op. Who is a stamblade.
why crying then?
Because I want balance and do not want to truck over magicka players like you.3 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StamWhipCultist wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »StamWhipCultist wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Spectacular grouping of random thoughts. I applaud you.
yet another salty sorc. Nothing to see here, move on.
Interesting that you would say that to a long time Stamblade.
Was talking about OP. Seems rather obvious, rlly.
He's talking about me. The op. Who is a stamblade.
why crying then?
We all benefit from a healthy population and game. We will all suffer if they're not.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »
It is common knowledge Devs do not know how the game plays well and it is because they do not really play their game. They often do poorly when they stream attempts on new content.
This is not unique to Zos either.Edited by idk on September 23, 2018 5:14PM1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »
It is common knowledge Devs do not know how the game plays well and it is because they do not really play their game. They often do poorly when they stream attempts on new content.
This is not unique to Zos either.
Ok, someone help me out as I see this said all the time. Is everyone at the company expected to be top tier players? Who is doing the playing? Forum reps? Combat techs? Rob stated he was playing ESO before they even hired him, I'm assuming you're calling him a liar? G the rouge now works there, he no longer plays?
Where are you guys getting your info on all of there employees or are you basing this premise of their entire staff off of a few livestreams?
Quick question, can you guys complete said content? Honest question.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You think roll dodging is free?CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah even since the PTS notes dropped I've been thinking if I really want people to like me + farm account stars I should really just spout off a bunch of random sorc outrage comments. Throw in a threat to un-sub, bash a dev, or delete my sorc. Think of all the "awesome" likes I'd get.Bouldercleave wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Spectacular grouping of random thoughts. I applaud you.
Thanks
It was worth at least the awesome that you got!
0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button...Which button was that again? Oh yeah roll dodge. I mean I can roll to infinity and beyond even with the stacking of roll dodge. At least with shields they cost around 9k for every 3 wards. So every 4 seconds maybe less than that you're wasting 9k magicka on shields. That is a bit too easy considering there is a choice. You can maximize dmg and be out of magicka in less than a minute in pvp or focus on sustain and do crap dmg but be able to survive. Yep too easy, sorc jack of all trades. 6000 spell dmg and 60k magicka with 5000 regen. Dev has no idea what he's talking about easy lol. This entire game is easy bro. Not just magicka users.Micah_Bayer wrote: »
Its refreshing to see some real accurate actual honesty on here for a change.Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »
It is common knowledge Devs do not know how the game plays well and it is because they do not really play their game. They often do poorly when they stream attempts on new content.
This is not unique to Zos either.
Ok, someone help me out as I see this said all the time. Is everyone at the company expected to be top tier players? Who is doing the playing? Forum reps? Combat techs? Rob stated he was playing ESO before they even hired him, I'm assuming you're calling him a liar? G the rouge now works there, he no longer plays?
Where are you guys getting your info on all of there employees or are you basing this premise of their entire staff off of a few livestreams?
Quick question, can you guys complete said content? Honest question.
If you are required to be a balance developer yes.. It in my opinion is one of the more important areas that devs need to know the game Pve and PvP aspects, if not they are pointless and not doing their jobs..
No i cannot complete said content but i don't claim to be a balance developer or take the money for it.
If they are making hats and clothes i'd say its not a requirement to know the game well..
Edited by DanteYoda on September 24, 2018 12:31AM0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Comparison of shields and dodge roll pre-doomsday-patch:
Shields- Protects against AOE
- Protect against DOTs
- Protect against crits
- Synergies well with HOTs
- Good against decent burst
- Vulnerable against execution effects if on low life
- Consumes the GCD
Dodge roll- Doesn't protect against AOE at all
- Doesn't protect against DOTs at all
- Gives complete mitgation of most single target abilites, some still apply secondary effects.
- Gives snare and root immunity
- Is on a seperate cooldown from the GCD
- Has stacking costs
Conclusion: In PVE Shields are almost always better than dodgeroll due to the sheer amount of ground AOEs and otherwise undodgeable mechanics. Because magicka characters don't really use stamina for anything unless a mechanic dictates it, dodgeroll should almost always be available for them, essentially giving them a huge edge on stam characters.
In PVP its a different story. Most AOEs can be relatively easily avoided and generally deal way less damage than their single target counterpart. Because of this dodgeroll is a much better option there.
Due to the nature of the two defensive mechanics shield have a slight advantage in 1v1 and Xv1 situations while in 1vX dodgeroll vastly outperforms anything else until the stacking costs make it unviable to use.
Post-patch comparison:
Lol, still using shields in 2k18. Git gud scrub. Rekt.
This is where the problem is here, zos are nerfing something which are bad in pvp and only really very strong in the last 2 pve dungeons because of crappy pve designs done by them.
It's their choice to throw out a stupid amount of aoe and undodgable dps and is just lazy design to be honest.
Where are the healer checks?
Where are the more skilled skilled avoid mechanics for dmg? Why is it designed in a way wherre everyone can only survive by face tanking with shields or they get 1 shot.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.
You can dodge dots and aoes0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.
You can dodge dots and aoes
No you can't.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.
You can dodge dots and aoes
No you can't.
You cant dodge rending slashes or venom arrow?0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.
You can dodge dots and aoes
No you can't.
You cant dodge rending slashes or venom arrow?
You can't dodge to dot component no.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oh too easy to throw up effective health is it? Wow hmm..How interesting, i can avoid 100% DMG with the click of one button.
I want to live in this universe where roll dodge ignores dots and AOEs.
The shield cast time change is messed up and unnecessary. That doesn't mean we should throw the reality of the game as it is out of the window to strengthen our points.
You can dodge dots and aoes
No you can't.
You cant dodge rending slashes or venom arrow?
You can't dodge to dot component no.
Well if you dodge before hand. Then you dodge the skill and the dot component all together. Mag chars only have what? 1 dodge and one cc break before they are out?0 -
JamuThatsWho✭✭✭✭✭
✭Those are certainly all words.@JamuThatsWho - PC EU - CP2100
Main:
Vasiir-jo - Khajiit Magicka Necromancer, AD
Alts:Sul-Mael Hlarothran - Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer, EP
Ushaar-Ixaht - Argonian Magicka Nightblade, DC
Rorbakh gro-Khraag - Orc Stamina Templar, AD
Anduuroon - Altmer Magicka Warden, EP
Travanius Braelia - Imperial Stamina Dragonknight, DC
Daeralon - Bosmer Stamina Arcanist, AD0 -
ZOS_MikaadminSince this thread hasn't been terribly constructive and has derailed rather quickly, we have decided to close it down. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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