Add 3rd morph option to skills?

Enkil

It seems there are some big sweeping changes in patches sometimes, which help some builds and hurt others.

Why not help boost diversity and provide balance by creating a 3rd morph option of each skill instead of just the two options??

Spartabunny08

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

1 for each role. Damage, heals, tank.

Kilcosu

Other

I think that is something the developers will have to consider eventually. as the game grows and expansions are introduced they'll need something to shake things up, make it fresh. though I don't think that possibility will happen anytime soon

ScardyFox

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Simplistic - but a good idea for something new

Cronopoly

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Would Fix several disparities especially with much needed Stam Morphs to break the stranglehold on physical weapons that dominate most bars for Stam builds we see in use

idk

No, don’t add a 3rd morph option

Pretty much a no go for a couple solid reasons.

1. Zos has enough issues balancing the game and adding another layer increases that significantly. That alone is the reason Zos will not do this.
2. Skill point requirements are increased significantly which adds more grinding for alts which is the opposite direction the game has gone with the elimination of vet ranks and lowering the overall time it takes to level a new character.

DeadlyRecluse

Other

Class skills already have 3 options--the unmorphed+the two morphed.

Just need to swap the "standard" (or magicka) morph to the unmorphed slot, then add another specialist morph in it's place.

For example, make the default morph of templar sweeps Puncturing Sweeps, then let you morph it to Biting Jabs OR drop the heal from Puncturing in exchange for a different buff.

Or take another example, crit charge. Make Stampede the "unmorphed" version. Then when you morph it, you can keep stampede (the snare), morph to crit rush (get the bonus damage) or morph to a new morph that say, gives you minor savagery if you hit a target with it.

Boom, keep the exact same UI, same number of skills, but add a de facto 3rd option.


NB gap closer used to work this way--unmorphed was a magicka single target, morphed options were magicka weak AOE and stamina single target--lots of magblades kept the unmorphed version as it was a viable alternative to the magicka morph.

Enkil

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

I mean Base skill, then 3 different choices for morph (up from 2). Each skill morphed only once, but more choices.

I do not mean an additional morph which could require more skill points.

DeadlyRecluse

Other

Enkil wrote: »

I mean Base skill, then 3 different choices for morph (up from 2). Each skill morphed only once, but more choices.

I do not mean an additional morph which could require more skill points.

Yeah, I feel you--but why not use base UI by moving the most vanilla of the 3 morphs to the "base" slot? Accomplishes the same thing, less coding changes, and potentially saves skill points.

VaranisArano

No, don’t add a 3rd morph option

Given that we're rarely happy with how the devs balance 2 morphs, how is 3 options supposed to make this better?

Warganic

Other

Only for class abilities should this be a thing I didn't want to say yes or no. Maybe they could either give you a third option that would pull from both resources with different effects at lower costs that could validate actually using a hybrid build or just actually have some variety when it comes to stamina options.

ccfeeling

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Thats what diversity we need, Zos, please think about it!!!

_Ahala_

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

They can’t possibly make every winters embrace skill have three tank morphs... can they?

Cronopoly

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Though I like the idea as an idea, from a programming standpoint, it might be too much for ZOS to "serialize" new abilities and then try to balance potentially 1/3rd more skills into the current game. Balance is already difficult i'm afraid.

db0ssman

Other

I think this would create giant balancing issues if they tried to add in a third skill. TBH I don't really care if PvP becomes unbalanced because I think PvE in games gets ruined when PvP balancing becomes the focus, but this type of change could make it so there always would be a broken combo in PvE that becomes the must use or GTFO META.

One thing they could do that would have pretty little impact on the game itself, but make certain kinds of builds more viable is that they can make it so you can swap back and forth between the base & two morphs (for free, I know you can use shrines, but having to pay thousands of gold each time you want to play a type of content is unrealistic). This way you could change the morphs to what you need for the content you are playing.

A good example of how/why this would work is with the upcomming NB nerfs. If you play a NB healer, you probably use Funnel Health and refreshing path but both of those abilities are about to get nerfed into the ground. Funnel health will still be useful as a group hot in dungeons, but completely useless in basically all other PvE content. Refreshing path will still have good situational uses (like when the group is clustered together in a N trial/wb or if you know the tank will take a lot of aoe but stay put) but is mostly going to become useless. If you can swap between morphs, you can swap out fh and rp for swallow soul and twisting path when doing solo content and still be able to maintain that NB feel. Otherwise, you will have to choose to either be heavily reliant on Resto for healing or destro for damage in solo content.

Galaen_Frost

Other

A lot more stamina morphs are still needed for class skills.

Donny_Vito

Other

The amount of time/effort required for this would be too much. In order to add a 3rd morph for every single skill, and have it be balanced, would be a difficult undertaking. We'll probably just see more useful skill lines like the Psijic Order one with upcoming releases.

Enkil

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Cronopoly wrote: »

Though I like the idea as an idea, from a programming standpoint, it might be too much for ZOS[...] Balance is already difficult i'm afraid.

Warganic wrote: »

Only for class abilities should this be a thing[...]

Donny_Vito wrote: »

[...] add a 3rd morph for every single skill, and have it be balanced, would be a difficult undertaking

Currently the devs change/delete skills and morphs that are already working just to make room for new skills because they are too limited. Balance is far more difficult when you don't have enough options to provide balance in a complex and comprehensive manner.

Maybe just limit it to class skills only and roll it out in phases over time (i.e. one skill line per class each til all three fleshed out).

Having enjoyed working with a very interactive, communicative, and responsive dev team as a class advocate in Shadowbane, a pure PvP mmo with 22 classes and 40+ disciplines, where balance was absolutely paramount, I have a hard time accepting these modern devs can't achieve much better balance outcomes than what exists in ESO now.

UPrime

No, don’t add a 3rd morph option

The problem is it's hard to make good "real" options. If option is always wrong or always right, then it's not really an option. We have a stam vs mag options now which make sense. The ability itself is either defensive or offensive. I don't think addition a 3rd option would necessarily do the job because it's a bandaid to something else.

Fix the root problem and you don't need a 3rd option.

craftycarper73

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

I voted yes, really good idea.

To expand on it a little further, why not 2 further morph's the 3rd & 4th morph's should be a pvp specific, that can only be used inside pvp area's, the pve morphs can only be used in pve specific area's, that way they can balance the 2 parts of the game accordingly, you would hope.

Thoughts?

OrphanHelgen

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

I made suggestion about this around 2 years ago. Ofc they should, it's insanely awkward how they haven't done this yet. Lack of creativity is my biggest guess.

GimpyPorcupine

Didn't vote, because I'm not sure how to categorize this, but:

Similar to Bound Weapons in previous ES games, add a 3rd morph to Weapon Skills that flip staves to Stamina and physical weapons to Magicka. Add a World or Guild skill line (Conjuration is lore-friendly) that works as a toggle. When toggled on, base damage of the weapon becomes the other type. Fire/Frost/Shock would become Poison/Physical/Disease damage. Not sure how to work that the other way; meaning, does 1H/S do straight Magic damage, or elemental.

SirMewser

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Enkil wrote: »

It seems there are some big sweeping changes in patches sometimes, which help some builds and hurt others.

Why not help boost diversity and provide balance by creating a 3rd morph option of each skill instead of just the two options??

Conjured Ward 3rd morph option: "This ability no longer has a cast time but reduces the shield strength and duration by half."

To keep this ability in line with our motives in update 20.

Sanctum74

Other

Sounds like a great idea, but adding a 3'rd morph would take Zos years of buffs and nerfs until they got it right. They still can't figure out what they want with the existing morphs.

I'd rather we get an option to unlock both morphs so we can easily switch back and forth without having to leave cyrodiil, dungeons, etc and then have to sit through a quee again just to change a few skills.

Defilted

Other

You need one of two things.

-Battle Spirit that changes the skills for PVP only for better balance. Remain two morphs.

-Four morphs(Two PVE, two PVP)

RedRook

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Class skills already have 3 options--the unmorphed+the two morphed.

Just need to swap the "standard" (or magicka) morph to the unmorphed slot, then add another specialist morph in it's place.

For example, make the default morph of templar sweeps Puncturing Sweeps, then let you morph it to Biting Jabs OR drop the heal from Puncturing in exchange for a different buff.

Or take another example, crit charge. Make Stampede the "unmorphed" version. Then when you morph it, you can keep stampede (the snare), morph to crit rush (get the bonus damage) or morph to a new morph that say, gives you minor savagery if you hit a target with it.

Boom, keep the exact same UI, same number of skills, but add a de facto 3rd option.


NB gap closer used to work this way--unmorphed was a magicka single target, morphed options were magicka weak AOE and stamina single target--lots of magblades kept the unmorphed version as it was a viable alternative to the magicka morph.

This would be great, especially since may of the unmorphed versions frankly suck anyway. ZOS seems to be going the other way instead, removing the extras from the morphed versions. Stun on frags, stun on shalks, damage on refreshing path, all gone.

It's like they can't remember we have precious few ability slots. Or, more likely, they're headed toward light and heavy attacks as our bread and butter, and class abilities for flavor. Gross.

usmcjdking

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

Honestly....

This is probably the best suggestion I've seen in quite some time and it's so blatantly simple. Hopefully it'll come with the next big patch where they don't give us more end game that 250 players will do. Fix and improve what you have.

ck37090

No, don’t add a 3rd morph option

Kinda hard to support when some skills don't have one or two options that people use... They are still making changes that have players stopping the use of some skills altogether

scipionumatia

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

as long as one of those options is stamwhip you have my full support

Enkil

Yes, give each skill 3 morph options instead of 2

https://youtu.be/KdS6HFQ_LUc

Chains and Whips excite me too!

firedrgn

Other

Just make a pvp morph and a pve morph. Trying to balance a game is hard enough but they are trying to balance pve and pvp at the same time.