Letter for new players. Why I don't recommend to play this game. One year experience.

ruikkarikun

First I respect PVP players, but last updates, pve zones seems make this game more PVE based.

So I'm writing this to players who will focus on PVE.


Last days I found that there is a thing which is more worse than "pay to win".
It's a "nerf" (or you prefer to call it "balance changing")
So why I don't recommend this game.

When you will pick some class and enjoy game all will be good. Until "next update". The most players who play this game genre know what I mean "enjoy". It's gameplay, combat, some skills. sets etc.

But there is a PVP, and class which you choosed will kill some players, they will come to forum and will cry about it. In the next update you will get nerf. It will be cycling infinity process each a few months. Some pathces you maybe will be safe, but I can sure you sooner or later they will nerf some skills, sets, playstyle which you enjoy.

Funny thing that if you like casual playstyle this nerfs will hurt you too.

I'm not blaming pvp but fact is it works like this now. Yes there are a lot other factors (some devs could like only once class, some thing can be OP for real etc) but the main reason is PVP and cycling changing.

Also both PVP and PVE have toxic community.
Which is why I'm not surprised about asking gor nerfs.


When I first time entered PVP I got keep defence, we failed, I even didn't know how to place ballista. When enemies took keep they killed me and I got whisper from...guy who killed me with text like:

"hello b****s*** m* d*** go s**** to pve f***** scrub..." and more more also he standed on my character body and pressed CTRL for like 2-3 minutes

For 3-4 months in PVP I got a lot of this and saw terrible things, so I still believe it's a main reason which ruin PVE and game.
Sad that devs don't want to make separate skills for both PVP and PVE, it's really easy solution.

And one thing I don't understand is who are those who cries about OP some class. Like for 4 last monthes in VIVEC EU PC and battlegrounds I played as sorc. I'm casual player with own build, so ~ 70% of time I got killed and only 30% could kill. I killed casuals player and they killed me. It sounds fair. When I faced with good players I didn't have chance, it's ok.

But I'm about zerling, because on VIVEC 100% time I saw (prime, night, morning) all fight it's like when 20+ people kill single man, or 10 people kill 2 man, or premade guild group in discord kill pugs farming AP. In battlegrounds I saw 70% players was stamina and they didn't have problems with sorcs btw.
Vivec also for my feeling have more stamina players then magicka, and count of snipers/heavy armor stamina players is MORE then rest.

So where were those people which were killed from super OP sorcs? I don't know really. It's make me crazy. Like battlegrounds are no cp and shields are weaker there so I want to say that I'm sure the major part of playerbase is causals and they can't be sad about sorc is OP, Because as I said casual players killed me 70% of time, because it's hard to fight with any stamina player, which is just outrun your resources and kill with ez. So thing are even worse then if small group of toxic trolls can nerf any what they want.


For PVE. If you picked wrong class or like own gameplay you won't get high endgame content. If you have static group maybe you have chance otherwise no.
For example noone wants pet sorcs in vet trials now and after nerf it will be joke.
Also PVE elitist toxic toom but I think it's enough.

So I reccomend new players think through and if you're ready to handle infinity nerfs and toxic community then yes.

Chilly-McFreeze

Yep, absolutely, never ever was a nerf PVE inspired.

kathandira

ruikkarikun wrote: »

First I respect PVP players, but last updates, pve zones seems make this game more PVE based.

So I'm writing this to players who will focus on PVE.


Last days I found that there is a thing which is more worse than "pay to win".
It's a "nerf" (or you prefer to call it "balance changing")
So why I don't recommend this game.

You've played other online games right? Nerfs and Changes like these are common place.

silvermistktralasub17_ESO

It's worth noting that not all players enter the game with the same expectations, and your statement is very focused on end-game. I play pve completely, but also solo. I don't need or want to do end game content. I've also been playing since beta. Don't presume to know what everyone wants. And there might be those you're discouraging who won't care about the nerfs. So, please, don't throw fits in this way?

@Alassirana
SneakyBo, ExSO_Gold, Demure Dragon Dealings

ssorgatem

That's life in a MMO.

Seriously, it's either that or broken misbalance that quickly gets stale.

ruikkarikun

kathandira wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

First I respect PVP players, but last updates, pve zones seems make this game more PVE based.

So I'm writing this to players who will focus on PVE.


Last days I found that there is a thing which is more worse than "pay to win".
It's a "nerf" (or you prefer to call it "balance changing")
So why I don't recommend this game.

You've played other online games right? Nerfs and Changes like these are common place.

Played. But changes there were based more on developers specific thoughts, not community asks in forum. Because many people even not read official forum.

NoTimeToWait

ruikkarikun wrote: »

For PVE. If you picked wrong class or like own gameplay you won't get high endgame content. If you have static group maybe you have chance otherwise no.
For example noone wants pet sorcs in vet trials now and after nerf it will be joke.
Also PVE elitist toxic toom but I think it's enough.

So I reccomend new players think through and if you're ready to handle infinity nerfs and toxic community then yes.

This part is just wrong. Even trading guilds run PVE endgame, quite successfully. You shouldn't expect easy vHRC clears or vAS, but you could be assured that vAA and vSO are achievable, as well as normal chapter trials and veteran DLC dungeons. And it is enough to have 20-25k DPS which is obtainable with any class non braindead builds. Yes, you will spend 2-3 hours finishing your first try in nAS, but it would be one of the best gaming experiences... so my suggestion: avoid toxic communities and stick to those who are friendly

If you want first-world trial runs on veteran complexity, well, then you are screwed (maybe)

Acrolas

Can I meme it if I didn't even read it?
I probably can.

kathandira

ruikkarikun wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

First I respect PVP players, but last updates, pve zones seems make this game more PVE based.

So I'm writing this to players who will focus on PVE.


Last days I found that there is a thing which is more worse than "pay to win".
It's a "nerf" (or you prefer to call it "balance changing")
So why I don't recommend this game.

You've played other online games right? Nerfs and Changes like these are common place.

Played. But changes there were based more on developers specific thoughts, not community asks in forum. Because many people even not read official forum.

That's debatable. Any online game I play, I read the forums to keep up with the community. What is happening right now is very common.

VaranisArano

My advice for PVEers starting to PVP is essentially: Are you willing to die a lot, slowly learn from mistakes, and practice a lot to get better probably with the help of a guild or a group? Good, because that's what the good PVPers do. They die. A lot. They practice. A lot. They learn from their mistakes and often have the help of a guild or a group. 9 times out of 10, the reason you died is that you need to learn to play better. Are you willing to put the time and effort in to learn to play better against players and not AI?


My advice for PVE players is to play the classes and the builds you enjoy at the level of content you are comfortable with. Yes. The nerfhammer happens. Suddenly everyone is telling you your class is useless. 9 times out of 10, your class just got a little less efficient at running top tier end-game content and its not as bad as they say (the shield nerfs, admittedly, are in the 1 out of 10 times category). So relax, and keep playing your classes the way you enjoy. Every class has something about them that's fun and enjoyable, so don't be afraid of variety.

In both PVP and PVE, if you chase the carrot of the meta, be aware that ZOS is going to make you chase that carrot every single update. Be prepared. On the other hand, you can complete all the content in slightly less efficient, non meta ways and do just fine.

ruikkarikun

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

For PVE. If you picked wrong class or like own gameplay you won't get high endgame content. If you have static group maybe you have chance otherwise no.
For example noone wants pet sorcs in vet trials now and after nerf it will be joke.
Also PVE elitist toxic toom but I think it's enough.

So I reccomend new players think through and if you're ready to handle infinity nerfs and toxic community then yes.

This part is just wrong. Even trading guilds run PVE endgame, quite successfully. You shouldn't expect easy vHRC clears or vAS, but you could be assured that vAA and and vSO are achievable, as well as normal DLC trials. And it is enough to have 20-25k DPS which is obtainable with any class non braindead builds.

If you want first-world trial runs on veteran complexity, well, then you are screwed (maybe)

When people ask in zone chat or guild and hear I'm pet sorc they refuse to invite me.
It's funny thing. If you do it with success does not automatically means all other can do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

I changed 7+ guilds, have friends with those problems, spoke with a lot people about this problem, so my thoughts based on some espirience anyway. But you can don't believe.

Ruinhorn

As a beta player, I can say, that this game COULD BE much and much better. It had an extremely high potential at the start, and now it's the most blaming and toxic game I've ever seen. Unfortunately.

I can't say much about PvP, 'cause I'm PvE player. But can give you recommendation for end-game in PvE.
Find a good small guild. Better if you made it with friends. 15-20 persons is enough. And that's how you will beat end-game content, like veteran Trials. Yes, this will take months, but you will always have a group of people you're comfortable to play with. I spent like half a year in such guild before Morrowind patch forced us to disband (I spent a year after in GW2, stunning game tho), but I remember only good and funny time we've spent together while beating vMoL, vAA/vHRa/vSO and etc.

But yes, ESO is an adult game with a lot of toxic people, it's true.
Anyway, find friends or nice people and play together. Talk in Discord, try veteran content without tutorials, wipe 100 times on the same boss. Whatever.

Turelus

I think anyone who's been playing MMO games would understand balance passes and nerfs happen, I've yet to play a game where it hasn't caused people to kick off.

Granted though that ZOS seems to take a sledgehammer to things without warning sometimes though.

Personally I don't think telling new players they should avoid the game is best, inform them of the games issues up front but let them try and it decide themselves.

There is also some misinformation or misrepresentation's of the game in your post. Sure end game leader board content might exclude some classes in PvE, but most trials guilds will still allow classes which are not perfect to play. If they're not, find a guild which does.

The game might have some toxic players who are vocal but it also has some amazing people, just check the #ESOFam on Twitter to see how great some people can be. It's about who you find and engage with, if you don't like toxic people mute them or don't play with them.

VaranisArano

ruikkarikun wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

For PVE. If you picked wrong class or like own gameplay you won't get high endgame content. If you have static group maybe you have chance otherwise no.
For example noone wants pet sorcs in vet trials now and after nerf it will be joke.
Also PVE elitist toxic toom but I think it's enough.

So I reccomend new players think through and if you're ready to handle infinity nerfs and toxic community then yes.

This part is just wrong. Even trading guilds run PVE endgame, quite successfully. You shouldn't expect easy vHRC clears or vAS, but you could be assured that vAA and and vSO are achievable, as well as normal DLC trials. And it is enough to have 20-25k DPS which is obtainable with any class non braindead builds.

If you want first-world trial runs on veteran complexity, well, then you are screwed (maybe)

When people ask in zone chat or guild and hear I'm pet sorc they refuse to invite me.
It's funny thing. If you do it with success does not automatically means all other can do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Whether or not its theoretically possible to complete all content with non-meta builds,
And
Whether or not the community will invite you to content in a non meta build,

Are two different things.

The first is a design issue with the game. The second is a community issue with the players.

ruikkarikun

Also I want someone comment that part when I describe situaton on Vivec and battlegrounds EU for last 4 monts. Maybe someone finally tell me where to find places where super OP sorcs humiliated zergs, and innocent weak stamina players?

Starlock

silvermistktralasub17_ESO wrote: »

It's worth noting that not all players enter the game with the same expectations, and your statement is very focused on end-game. I play pve completely, but also solo. I don't need or want to do end game content. I've also been playing since beta. Don't presume to know what everyone wants. And there might be those you're discouraging who won't care about the nerfs. So, please, don't throw fits in this way?

This, x10.

Balance changes rarely if ever impact me significantly. Why? I don’t hold competitive expectations. If I PvP (whch is rare), I don’t care about winning, I care about having fun. The guild I do PvP with shares that same expectation... we are there to have fun! For PvE, I am primarily a role player and storyteller. No balance changes will ruin that ever, even if I bemoan a signature ability that helps define one of my characters getting changed for (to me) no good reason. I like doing dungeons occasionally, but do not treat it competitively either. Again, I’m there to have fun. I don’t even believe in ‘end game.’ For players who don’t give a flying flip about being super competitive, the game is and always has been fine. More than fine... amazing!

Chicharron

from now on, every time I have doubts about a MMO I will say: what would ruikkarikun do?

DorianDragonRaze

Sooo true.
Playing since patch 1.6. Love this world as crazy, but getting so disappointed lately...
Probably ZOS shouldn't have created this game at all.

kathandira

ruikkarikun wrote: »

Also I want someone comment that part when I describe situaton on Vivec and battlegrounds EU for last 4 monts. Maybe someone finally tell me where to find places where super OP sorcs humiliated zergs, and innocent weak stamina players?

Wish I could. I have a hard 'No' stance towards PvP games with classes. Mostly because of the same issues you have. Constant re-balancing. In PvE I can deal with that, but not in PvP.

Wildcopper

Call the press. Someone got killed in PvP...

eso_nya

My advise would be:

if you r looking for a progressive endgame raiding game, eso is not for u.
if u r looking for a pvp game, stick with moba or fps.
if u r looking for an fantasy rpg with multiplayer elements, questing, stories and exploration, eso will keep u busy for a couple of years.

Kolache

Did you ever play WoW? There is a game that drastically changes periodically. Roll the dice when a new expansion comes along, your class might have half of it's abilities pruned and/or play completely differently.

Judging by polls and personal experience, half the people in this game think most of the PvE is too easy. Set bonuses are ESO's pokemon and they introduce new ones each expansion along with increasing the CP cap. Perhaps some changes are driven by PvP but I can't imagine how someone wouldn't expect regular balancing, read: "nerfing", to get PvE where ZOS wants it.

NoTimeToWait

ruikkarikun wrote: »

When people ask in zone chat or guild and hear I'm pet sorc they refuse to invite me.
It's funny thing. If you do it with success does not automatically means all other can do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

I changed 7+ guilds, have friends with those problems, spoke with a lot people about this problem, so my thoughts based on some espirience anyway. But you can don't believe.

Sorry, elaborate please. You try to apply and they ask what class you are playing on and refuse after you answer "pet sorc"?
Ok, maybe it is a problem.
I didn't say that it would be easy to find a decent guild. But it is quite possible. So you just have to try again and again until you have found suitable guild. This is how all MMOs are. At least, we have 5 guild slots available in TESO, so this process is going fast enough. And I would be grateful to the guildmasters who prevented me from wasting time by refusing entrance due to my class not being meta

Just try Social guilds first, they tend to be communicative and supportive

eso_nya wrote: »

My advise would be:

if you r looking for a progressive endgame raiding game, eso is not for u.
if u r looking for a pvp game, stick with moba or fps.
if u r looking for an fantasy rpg with multiplayer elements, questing, stories and exploration, eso will keep u busy for a couple of years.

If you are looking for Sims where somebody might kill you multiple times when you try to get "that boat" for your house... you might stay here for a couple of years too

Mintaka5

Yeah I don't get it either. OP magsorcs? Who are these players? I'd like to know so I can learn to play like them, because my magsorc with 3 shields stacked gets melted all the time. If there are any OP sorcs out there I'm sure it's just a few, and we all know that a few members of any society should not justify ruining the game for the rest of us.

Playing a magsorc is real pain point in most content (PvE or PvP). Instead of punishing the community with nerfs to classes, why doesn't ZOS buff weak things, instead of nerfing strong things? Manage the sets not the characters! If a set changes I can go find a new one to use. If my class changes I basically cannot enjoy my character build anymore.

I don't blame anyone here, but ZOS. They don't understand how good business works, and they cannot possibly make this game enjoyable. I'll remind you guys that Zenimax's first statement on their website is:

ZeniMax creates and publishes original interactive entertainment content...

Now stop destroying our game ZOS, and provide some *** entertainment value!

ruikkarikun

Wildcopper wrote: »

Call the press. Someone got killed in PvP...

Me? As I wrote I was killed 70% times and feel ok with this. That's why I'am curious where to find places to watch how shield OP sorcs kill all zergs, and stamina heavy armor etc in VIVEC PC EU or battlegrounds.

Just want to watch, because for last 4 month I see how Vivec dominated by stam players, and they have absolutely ZERO problems with killing stack shields sorcs.

My expirience base on 4 montsh (6-7 hours in Vivec most every day, as I'm farming AP for rings, telvars, molag, etc)

idk

Another unconstructive gripe thread about the pts.

ruikkarikun

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

When people ask in zone chat or guild and hear I'm pet sorc they refuse to invite me.
It's funny thing. If you do it with success does not automatically means all other can do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

I changed 7+ guilds, have friends with those problems, spoke with a lot people about this problem, so my thoughts based on some espirience anyway. But you can don't believe.

Sorry, elaborate please. You try to apply and they ask what class you are playing on and refuse after you answer "pet sorc"?
Ok, maybe it is a problem.
I didn't say that it would be easy to find a decent guild. But it is quite possible. So you just have to try again and again until you have found suitable guild. This is how all MMOs are. At least, we have 5 guild slots available in TESO, so this process is going fast enough. And I would be grateful to the guildmasters who prevented me from wasting time by refusing entrance due to my class not being meta

Just try Social guilds first, they tend to be communicative and supportive

I don't have close friends or static group and that's all. I looked for guild on this forum, found 5 guilds. Everyday tried to ask in guild chats about vet trials. (Both guilds are 480-500 ppl).
And I'm getting zero invites. Sometimes becuse of pet sroc, sometimes because of static groups, rest time when I'm asked noone answer simple.
Well how many guilds I must to change to get single invite to HoF for example.

ruikkarikun

Kolache wrote: »

Did you ever play WoW? There is a game that drastically changes periodically. Roll the dice when a new expansion comes along, your class might have half of it's abilities pruned and/or play completely differently.

Judging by polls and personal experience, half the people in this game think most of the PvE is too easy. Set bonuses are ESO's pokemon and they introduce new ones each expansion along with increasing the CP cap. Perhaps some changes are driven by PvP but I can't imagine how someone wouldn't expect regular balancing, read: "nerfing", to get PvE where ZOS wants it.

No. I'm sure it is, But it dosen't mean we must sit and accept aggressive cycling nerf practice, how do you think?
I'm talking about changes, alternatives instead of nerfing just at all, no more.

SilverIce58

It's funny that you, a petsorc, can't do any endgame stuff, but me, a petsorc, has completed almost everything in the game, with another petsorc. I've done every dungeon in the game on vet, and a few trials too. If you can't find an amicable guild to run content with, thats on you, and you alone.

ruikkarikun

SilverIce58 wrote: »

It's funny that you, a petsorc, can't do any endgame stuff, but me, a petsorc, has completed almost everything in the game, with another petsorc. I've done every dungeon in the game on vet, and a few trials too. If you can't find an amicable guild to run content with, thats on you, and you alone.

That's mean you got luck with finding right group. Yes I can be wrong, but It's my part of expirience, and some other guys with I talked about this problems. And that was just a part of my thoughts, not general.

oxygen_thief

ruikkarikun wrote: »

"hello b****s*** m* d*** go s**** to pve f***** scrub..." and more more also he standed on my character body and pressed CTRL for like 2-3 minutes

ive got only 2 hate whispers since 2016. i am just an awful sorc