Shield changes may be the final straw for me

Ihatenightblades

I never thought zos would be this clueless to what players want.

We USUALLY get what we ask not individually but as a whole community we ask for things and most of the time we get them.

I have yet to hear ANYBODY like this change and i know its not always about what we want its whats needed for the game.

Maybe zos feels the game is too easy to survive in pve and pvp? Well if they thought that they are WRONG.

Yes old dungeons are a piece of cake and shield stacking can be annoying to counter in pvp but they CAN be countered.

The animation i saw from harness magicka and hardened ward was disgusting...

This isnt about nerfs and buffs we can ALL take nerfs and buffs.

But this is changing the combat and flow of the whole game. If it was a change in the right direction most people would be happy but when there is a poll that shows 93% of players dont like it then maybe you should reconsider.

This is not a quitting thread this is just a discussion/statement i want the devs to see so they can maybe keep reading our negatives reviews to understand why its wrong.

I cant see myself playing much longer if this is the direction this game is headed i hope more people can express their opinion so we can stop this madness from happening.

If you havnt seen the animation of the cast I suggest you watch a pts video on YouTube you will not like it.

Again just wanna say i call for nerfs and buffs all the time and most of the time i dnt get them but it never made me not enjoy the game. I really feel this can be the dealbreaker for me and many others and i think of zos knew this they might change their mind its still pts nothing is official so im keeping my hopes up for now

SirDopey

Hahahah one of the biggest Nerf callers on the forums QQing over a Nerf.

Personally I like it. It's a good change for the game that will bring more balance to choosing between Stamina and Magic classes for both PVE and PVP

Gilvoth

i agree, the sorcerer shield 1 second cast time is just not a good idea.
my problem is that this will grow and things could get really bad for all the other classes.
and like i said now in every new "plz dont nerf sorc thread" ill repeat it here as well.

"i Hate sorcerers, i love killing them.
but i do not agree with the 1 second delay on shield casting.
infact, if that 1 second delay on shield casting goes live then it will be a trickle down effecT.
eventually leading to alot of very serious problems with elderscrolls online and may even be fatal for sorcerers and and up being fatal for all classes."

Freddycruz89

I personally like it. No more forever tanks

SirDopey

Not to mention the biggest complaint of Healers lately has been feeling irrelevant, a pretty fair call when you consider 3 dps and 1 tank is the go to for most hard achievements. Now, they're relevant again....

Riptide

Sure, I think its a good change. Its not the way Id have fixed shields, rather Id have done it like streak and made it cost more per cast.

But fixing it needed.

Been doin vet trials on magsorc the last number of months. But I lived through many, many templar nerfs. You adapt.

OP, toughen up. Or see ya.

qbit

They’ve either ran the numbers and predicted the impact will be minimal to sales or this is a bait and switch like they did with jewlery crafting to make everyone appreciate the 5x grind vs the 10x grind. Or their design team has collectively realized leadership will allow anything to pass so they’ve started pushing their personal bias.

Regardless, changes like this don’t get reverted after they hit PTS from what I’ve read. I’ve concluded the game is too stressful for me with this crap all over the map. I’m not starting over leveling a new toon with Skyshards, etc grinding new gear, etc just to have it all change again in three months. Time would be better spent on another MMO.

Now that I’ve experienced an MMO and how the devs and community operate, I now know what to look for. And a history of stability and small changes that don’t gut the game play of entire classes and obsolete my gear is at the top of my list.

ParaNostram

Making shields critable was a good fix. Making them then also effected by resistances was a good idea. The cast time, that was a bad idea. Hopefully ZOS can see this, but eh what do I know.

Thorstienn

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Again just wanna say i call for nerfs and buffs all the time and most of the time i dnt get them but it never made me not enjoy the game. I really feel this can be the dealbreaker for me and many others and i think of zos knew this they might change their mind its still pts nothing is official so im keeping my hopes up for now

As you say, nothing is official, let it run its course before you make an I'm quitting thread masquerading as something else.

As you say, players call for nerfs and buffs all the time; every player in an MMO is biased, let the developers develop the game they WANT us to be enjoying, if you don't enjoy it, GO! Their metrics will tell them if it was a good or bad change.

There are places to let the developers know your "playtested" critiques from PTS experience (Where you should be

@ZOS_GinaBruno

qbit

Are there any MMOs that have a history of small and incremental changes to class balance? Like proper change control being in place? I’d think a golden rule of design for this kind of game would be small and incremental changes. I mean, that makes sense in most fields of design and engineering.

They are basically creating their own internal game of balance whack-a-mole when they make such big changes so quickly. Every problem they fix with a hammer creates five more problems. There’s a reason they don’t do surgery with chainsaws. Sorry for the hyperbole at the end.

C3N50R3D

Freddycruz89 wrote: »

I personally like it. No more forever tanks

Except the forever tanks in PvP are not magsorcs...

C3N50R3D

Riptide wrote: »

Sure, I think its a good change. Its not the way Id have fixed shields, rather Id have done it like streak and made it cost more per cast.

But fixing it needed.

Been doin vet trials on magsorc the last number of months. But I lived through many, many templar nerfs. You adapt.

OP, toughen up. Or see ya.

Templars have many more instant and HoT heals. Its not a fair comparison.

MajBludd

See you later!

Riptide

Oh hah, you must be new. Templars got hammered for years. Badly. We adjusted. Or shelved them a stretch. Lots took on the master class, magsorcs.

There were heaps of whining and I quit posts then too. Gnashing of teeth. Dramatic posts. Nerd rage.

It will work out. They may do something the lighten the pain, like .5 second rather than 1 second cast, thats often their way re PTS.

Either way we’ll adapt.

MANY mechanics are just shrugged off with shields, it had been out of hand a good long time.

ihazzit

Splattercat_83

Riptide wrote: »

MANY mechanics are just shrugged off with shields, it had been out of hand a good long time.

This is a statement of someone that dosen't do end game pve content.

C3N50R3D

Riptide wrote: »

Oh hah, you must be new. Templars got hammered for years. Badly. We adjusted. Or shelved them a stretch. Lots took on the master class, magsorcs.

There were heaps of whining and I quit posts then too. Gnashing of teeth. Dramatic posts. Nerd rage.

It will work out. They may do something the lighten the pain, like .5 second rather than 1 second cast, thats often their way re PTS.

Either way we’ll adapt.

MANY mechanics are just shrugged off with shields, it had been out of hand a good long time.

Mechanics shrugged off with shields. LMAO. You playing normal dungeon mode?

TheInfernalRage

See you in West Virginia man.

Raammzzaa

Personally, I would have rather them just made shields unstackable, but whatever... I think that the predictions of the end of sorcs are overblown though. We’ve heard it from templars, and DKs before them and yet they still are going strong.

In any case, don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

C3N50R3D

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Personally, I would have rather them just made shields unstackable, but whatever... I think that the predictions of the end of sorcs are overblown though. We’ve heard it from templars, and DKs before them and yet they still are going strong.

In any case, don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B087K6AdPMM

_Salty_

If you quit the game does that mean you will be quiting the forums too? Shucks. What will I do for laughs now.

Vixenator

I second this

Kel

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

C3N50R3D

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

Kel

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

So, the complaint is having to pay attention to mechanics and pre shield before damage? Is that really the complaint everyone's crying about..having to actually pay attention now?
Ok. You still get stronger shields because of resistance, not to mention they last longer. Seems a good trade off for one single second.

C3N50R3D

jabrone77 wrote: »

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

So, the complaint is having to pay attention and pre shield before damage? Is that really the complaint everyone's crying about..having to actually pay attention now?
Ok.

Magsorc dps is lower than magblade dps currently for competitive trials. This change will not only make sorcs less survivable in endgame trials but also lower their dps if they want to keep shields for certain trials. It seems to most serious players I have talked to that they did not put enough thought into the solution and have been inconsistent in their reasoning for the change.

FloppyTouch

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

So, the complaint is having to pay attention and pre shield before damage? Is that really the complaint everyone's crying about..having to actually pay attention now?
Ok.

Magsorc dps is lower than magblade dps currently for competitive trials. This change will not only make sorcs less survivable in endgame trials but also lower their dps if they want to keep shields for certain trials. It seems to most serious players I have talked to that they did not put enough thought into the solution and have been inconsistent in their reasoning for the change.

Every class is less dps then nbs let's compare templars and wardens to sorcs. Wow sorcs do more dps then them let's nerf them more...

Sorcs dont need to be brought up to nbs, nbs need to be brought down to every other class.

KalinRan

I think it's stupid how everyone seems to be so against making changes to their own build.
You have a lot of room to try new things now, see if you reach back to how strong you were or get even stronger.
The shield nerf isn't even the only change they made, and there's a lot of possibilities in between CP abilities, armor sets and different skills to make other viable builds capable of endgame content.

This is nothing new in the mmo genre; classes always get nerfed hard on all games and they've always been. And as an mmo, eso is better than the majority of other mmos out there.
It's free of a lot of stress that almost every other mmo pushes on its players.

1. It practically throws money at the players. (If you're telling me you somehow went past cp400 and you're broke all the time, then you likely never got involved seriously with trading and/or crafting, but even then you can pull out 100k easily from some grinding.)
2. The quests are interesting for those that care about questing, it's very much like playing an elder scrolls single player.
3. It pushes no questing on players whatsoever if that is not what you care about. There's no more limits, no more boundaries, you can just jump to the type of content you want instantly.
4. There's no shameless money-grabbing (There's not a single item in the crown store that you need for endgame content or that brings any kind of utility. Meanwhile I've played mmos where in order to get the best gear in the game you had to pay cash, it was a privilege if you didn't want to be the second best in the game. On top of that, they grant you free crown crates practically all the time, and the membership grants you access to ALL dlcs. 1 month is as cheap as in any other mmo, and it still practically pays for itself by giving you its value worth in crowns and the utility of the craft bag)
5. The pvp and pve communities are split and the gameplays don't flow into one another, unlike in pretty much every other mmo where the gameplay is a grind of pve so you can be good at pvp.
6. And even more than that, you only need to do cp10-cp810 ONCE, afterwards any character you level instantly jumps to your overall cp, and all you need to do is re-do 1-50 for an alt, which goes by in 6 hours with ambrosia or even the grand scrolls that they give you just for logging on.
7. If at any moment during the game, you realized you messed up with your build, it's incredibly easy and cheap to re-spec your skills and attributes and champion points. (For those that really reached endgame content and complain about the nerf, well the game gives you more than plenty of all the resources that you need to just make another build using your most current knowledge of the game)

If despite all of this you still find the game too stressful and not worth reworking your build while they search for the mythical balance that they want to achieve, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I'm by no means somebody that plays a lot or hardcore. But the game is just easy, and it offers a lot of freedom and possibilities for fun builds for the type of content you're interested in.
It's a shame to see people go, but those type of people I'm actually glad not to be around of.

Mayrael

qbit wrote: »

Are there any MMOs that have a history of small and incremental changes to class balance? Like proper change control being in place? I’d think a golden rule of design for this kind of game would be small and incremental changes. I mean, that makes sense in most fields of design and engineering.

They are basically creating their own internal game of balance whack-a-mole when they make such big changes so quickly. Every problem they fix with a hammer creates five more problems. There’s a reason they don’t do surgery with chainsaws. Sorry for the hyperbole at the end.

Haha love it

C3N50R3D wrote: »

Freddycruz89 wrote: »

I personally like it. No more forever tanks

Except the forever tanks in PvP are not magsorcs...

This. Screwing all magicka users when they are already in worse spot than stamina (PvP) isn't the smartest thing.

Kel

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

So, the complaint is having to pay attention and pre shield before damage? Is that really the complaint everyone's crying about..having to actually pay attention now?
Ok.

Magsorc dps is lower than magblade dps currently for competitive trials. This change will not only make sorcs less survivable in endgame trials but also lower their dps if they want to keep shields for certain trials. It seems to most serious players I have talked to that they did not put enough thought into the solution and have been inconsistent in their reasoning for the change.

Still don't understand how stronger shields and a longer time (9 seconds up from 6) make sorcs less survivable.

C3N50R3D

jabrone77 wrote: »

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

C3N50R3D wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

So, healing ward has no cast time. You can still stack two shields. The resistance baked in make shields stronger. Yes, they can now be crit, but the resistance on the front end cancels out. Shields will still be as strong as they are now. The change seems to be for change sake.
Basically this comes down to one second and stacking two shields instead of stacking three.
It's going to be fine. Can we play it before we rush to judgment, or is that too logical?

You don't shield stack in trials. What may make sense for PvP does not make sense for PvE in this case. There were other ways ZoS could have handled the PvP issue without significantly hurting PvE.

So, the complaint is having to pay attention and pre shield before damage? Is that really the complaint everyone's crying about..having to actually pay attention now?
Ok.

Magsorc dps is lower than magblade dps currently for competitive trials. This change will not only make sorcs less survivable in endgame trials but also lower their dps if they want to keep shields for certain trials. It seems to most serious players I have talked to that they did not put enough thought into the solution and have been inconsistent in their reasoning for the change.

Still don't understand how stronger shields and a longer time (9 seconds up from 6) make sorcs less survivable.

I meant either you remain survivable but lower dps or go without a shield with the same dps but are not as survivable. Running for vMoL or portals in vCR, or vHoF quick cast shields can mean life or death.