Healers Redundant for Vet/Hard Mode

skipsarg

As more updates to the game are released players are not taking a healer in their groups for vet/hard mode four man content. They don't need one because they are all using self sustain. Running with three dps and a tank or four dps. Any other healers having this issue?

shaielzafine

I have dps toons precisely for this reason, and on my healers I have gear for dps spec where I just change mundus / cp. Most things are better ran with 3 self healing dps + 1 tank that off heal. So, something like 2 magnbs & 1 petsorc or 3 magnbs + 1 dk tank. It's not really an issue for me, since I just swap toons or swap gear + cps to reach something like 30k dps requirement. It's just the way that the dungeons and content in ESO are designed, you will only need a pure healer build for trials. It's not possible to heal things to death, but it is possible to roll a magnb and do significant DPS while off healing.

jaws343

The problem with healers is the mechanics of many of the new dungeons are one shot. So having a healer is the least helpful because they cannot heal a player through a one shot mechanic. But an extra DPS makes these mechanics easier to mitigate and burn through.

Bouldercleave

This is what happens when you blur the line between PvE and PvP too much. By giving each class the ability to survive and self heal / damage mitigate for PvP, you water down the "Trinity" model of gameplay for PvE.

Ilithyania

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

weedgenius

That is basically the point of the shield changes they announced today.

From the class rep meeting notes from August:

ZOS’s high-level goals and things actively being worked on for update 20

• Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

The idea came from ZOS, not the class reps, FYI

WrathOfInnos

Ilithyania wrote: »

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

If that cast time goes live, healers are going to have to be on point. Nobody is going to slot shields with a delay, and it will fall entirely on healers to react with a burst heal with one second of heavy damage.

I can count on one hand the healers I have met in this game that can actually keep an eye on party bars and react quickly, while doing all the required mechanics and keeping themselves alive. The few that I am comfortable unslotting my shield.

I am very concerned about the environment that has just been created for healers that are less aware or have a slower reaction time. “Blaming the healer” will reach a whole new level. Healers are about to be very very important, I hope they are up to the task.

Bouldercleave

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ilithyania wrote: »

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

If that cast time goes live, healers are going to have to be on point. Nobody is going to slot shields with a delay, and it will fall entirely on healers to react with a burst heal with one second of heavy damage.

I can count on one hand the healers I have met in this game that can actually keep an eye on party bars and react quickly, while doing all the required mechanics and keeping themselves alive. The few that I am comfortable unslotting my shield.

I am very concerned about the environment that has just been created for healers that are less aware or have a slower reaction time. “Blaming the healer” will reach a whole new level. Healers are about to be very very important, I hope they are up to the task.

The cream of the crop will rise to the top. The rest will have to step up their game to a level that frankly - they should already be at. I think you will be surprised how many healers will get better simply because they need to.

I love being a healer, but haven't really bothered in ESO to this point. It may be time to dust off my Templar and brush up on my skills.

max_only

Healers need the shield too. Can’t tell how much my shield has saved my butt on my magTemp healer when pugging.

Shields were never the reason why healers were devalued.

Healers are devalued because of your dungeon design favoring one-shots and pass/fail mechanics instead of pressure phases.

weg0

Don’t forget healers rely heavily on a shield in most cases as well. I don’t use shields in pvp, but I am torn up about the impact this has overall.

Pink_Violinz

max_only wrote: »

Healers need the shield too. Can’t tell how much my shield has saved my butt on my magTemp healer when pugging.

Shields were never the reason why healers were devalued.

Honestly, I might get a dps prepped just because healing looks scary next patch. I rely on that shield too, not just the dps. Trying to do harder or faster content looks insane next patch just because of the cast time. You can't always react beforehand in such a fast setting, and you're a sitting duck during that cast time, including the healers. I am desperately hoping this gets reverted or heavily adjusted.

GimpyPorcupine

Was running Vet Selene's with a ~150 tank and the other DD was ~220. The "healer" was around 650 and a complete fake, a DPS sorc with dual destro, no matriarch, no energy orb, not a single group heal. The two junior players weren't able to keep themselves alive, and really needed a healer. So he says "sorry" and bows out. So after what was a 40 minute queue for me as DPS, we're now back in queue.

A few points I'd like to make. First, there are plenty of new players that aren't able to run a dungeon without a healer. Second, any mag DPS can slot a resto and a couple skills and adequately heal most dungeons. Third, any max-CP healer can slot a destro staff and a few skills and out-DPS a new player.

FrancisCrawford

I think the shield nerf completely destroys magicka sorcerer, and perhaps other classes as well.

But Healing Ward/Ward Ally are actually getting somewhat buffed, especially in classes that keep Major Ward/Major Resolve up. Perhaps switch to Ward Ally, and healers will get at least some shielding.

Kadoin

Don't forget damage keeps rising too from both the players and the enemies making healing even less useful...

jaws343

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I think the shield nerf completely destroys magicka sorcerer, and perhaps other classes as well.

But Healing Ward/Ward Ally are actually getting somewhat buffed, especially in classes that keep Major Ward/Major Resolve up. Perhaps switch to Ward Ally, and healers will get at least some shielding.

Yeah, this won't effect my healer's survivability. I either run ward ally or no shield on it. But it will increase the level of difficulty of keeping party members alive.

weedgenius

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ilithyania wrote: »

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

If that cast time goes live, healers are going to have to be on point. Nobody is going to slot shields with a delay, and it will fall entirely on healers to react with a burst heal with one second of heavy damage.

I can count on one hand the healers I have met in this game that can actually keep an eye on party bars and react quickly, while doing all the required mechanics and keeping themselves alive. The few that I am comfortable unslotting my shield.

I am very concerned about the environment that has just been created for healers that are less aware or have a slower reaction time. “Blaming the healer” will reach a whole new level. Healers are about to be very very important, I hope they are up to the task.

So you mean healers are going to have to..... heal??!!?

weedgenius

Kadoin wrote: »

Don't forget damage keeps rising too from both the players and the enemies making healing even less useful...

Honestly, I main a healer and I agree with you. I'm not sure why the team at ZOS thought reducing the effectiveness of shields would be a way to force groups to take healers. The REAL reason why healers aren't needed is because the newer dungeons, even on normal, will one-shot someone who is not doing the mechanics right. You can't heal a dps through a 40k instakill. So people take an extra dps instead of the healer in order to burn bosses down fast enough to avoid those mechanics all together.

skipsarg

Thanks for your answers. I am 780 healer and have all sets (gold) required of a healer (there are now many), I'm pretty good at what I do but I stuff up just like everyone else. I have very rarely used shields but I have been healing since the games release and listen to needs and wants of people in the groups I run with. My view on healers is if your a healer heal with support buffs/dots. Earthgore is amazing. I really don't want to stop as I enjoy the role

What_In_Tarnation

I really think even with shield nerfed, the situation won't changed that much tbh. Especially in most of dungeons

I'm picturing a group composed like 2 Stam DD + 1 Magplar DD + 1 DK tank.

2 stam DD responsible for off-heal with echo/resolving vigor just like mag NB used to with refreshing patch + funnel.

Magplar.. shards machines for group and deal good dps as well. And if group really need a healer, then equip resto and change some abilities. Magplar will still be a good dps as well.

But this is for experienced group ofc. PuGs still need good healer.

skipsarg

weedgenius wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ilithyania wrote: »

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

If that cast time goes live, healers are going to have to be on point. Nobody is going to slot shields with a delay, and it will fall entirely on healers to react with a burst heal with one second of heavy damage.

I can count on one hand the healers I have met in this game that can actually keep an eye on party bars and react quickly, while doing all the required mechanics and keeping themselves alive. The few that I am comfortable unslotting my shield.

I am very concerned about the environment that has just been created for healers that are less aware or have a slower reaction time. “Blaming the healer” will reach a whole new level. Healers are about to be very very important, I hope they are up to the task.

So you mean healers are going to have to..... heal??!!?

Haha yes they are. My role is healer so I heal - Destro/Resto with support buffs and dots. Most I run with unslot there shields if I'm healing. I play on xbox console. I love the role

Ardan147

weedgenius wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ilithyania wrote: »

with upcoming shield changes your gonna need some heals now

If that cast time goes live, healers are going to have to be on point. Nobody is going to slot shields with a delay, and it will fall entirely on healers to react with a burst heal with one second of heavy damage.

I can count on one hand the healers I have met in this game that can actually keep an eye on party bars and react quickly, while doing all the required mechanics and keeping themselves alive. The few that I am comfortable unslotting my shield.

I am very concerned about the environment that has just been created for healers that are less aware or have a slower reaction time. “Blaming the healer” will reach a whole new level. Healers are about to be very very important, I hope they are up to the task.

So you mean healers are going to have to..... heal??!!?

Since they're basically taking away the ability of damage dealers to compensate for a healer who isn't up to the task of keeping them alive.

aetherial_heavenn

max_only wrote: »

Healers need the shield too. Can’t tell how much my shield has saved my butt on my magTemp healer when pugging.

Shields were never the reason why healers were devalued.

This.

The one shot mechanics and high dps burn it down to bipass mechanics in dungeons are the reasons healers are redundant. Not shields.

This change is so stupid for light armour wearers of all classes. It breaks the game for everyone. Except nightblades.

LadyLethalla

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

This change is so stupid for light armour wearers of all classes. It breaks the game for everyone. Except nightblades.

Uhhh, no. I want to get my magblade through VMA but I know now that I'll have to do it before Murkmire hits consoles. Can't get her through VMA with high ping, slow reflexes and a 1 sec cast time.

zaria

jaws343 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I think the shield nerf completely destroys magicka sorcerer, and perhaps other classes as well.

But Healing Ward/Ward Ally are actually getting somewhat buffed, especially in classes that keep Major Ward/Major Resolve up. Perhaps switch to Ward Ally, and healers will get at least some shielding.

Yeah, this won't effect my healer's survivability. I either run ward ally or no shield on it. But it will increase the level of difficulty of keeping party members alive.

Magic build== healer for me because shorter pug times and better healer than dd. Shields is very nice then group takes serious damage or its one shots they can negate.