Dawnbreaker & Vigor needs looking at.

Emma_Overload

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

ChunkyCat

Ok.

I looked at them. They look good.

Next.

Emma_Overload

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Vigor is OP? You realize how untrue that is, right?

I don't know if Vigor needs to be nerfed, but Rapid Regen definitely needs to be BUFFED in order to compete.

Lexxypwns

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

3/10 too obvious you’re trolling

IZZEFlameLash

Pulque wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DBoS is overpowered.

It can be anim cancel to the point you can't counter it.

Dawnbreaker need to have his DOT REMOVED or at least GROUND based instead of player based.

DBoS is the best ultimate in the game because :

1. it's a AoE
2. Undodgeable
3. Cheap
4. Stun
5. That deal a lot of burst damage
6. + 20% vs vamp and WW
7. That deal a LOT of dot damage (it's a dot that stay on player so you take at least 1 dot in the burst since u need to breakfree then you take a lot more damage overtime).
8. Unpreditable and invisible with cut anim.

This is far too much when you look at other ultimate.

The DoT need to go

Meteor is the best ultimate in the game because :

1. it's a AoE
2. Undodgeable
3. Cheap
4. Knockback
5. That deal a lot of burst damage
6. Snare
7. YOU CAN THROW A METEOR 28M AWAY!!!!!!!!! WTF NERF THIS PLS!!!!!!!!!! THINK ABOUT 30MAN ZERF THROWING 30 METEORS TO YOU!!!! NO COUNTER PLAY!!!!!!!

The distance needs to go.

1. 125 vs 200. Now, which is cheaper?
2. Undodgeable but blockable if you don't pair it with unblockable, undodgeable CC.
3. DBoS is also AoE.
4. Deals lots of burst damage.
5. Meteor is very much telegraphed. DBoS is not. Especially when anim cancelled.

So yeah, DBoS is a better ult.

And no, DBoS is not better than Incap. Incap is still useable at 70 last I checked.
Tldr; DBoS is fine for now.

VarisVaris wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DBoS is overpowered.

It can be anim cancel to the point you can't counter it.

Dawnbreaker need to have his DOT REMOVED or at least GROUND based instead of player based.

DBoS is the best ultimate in the game because :

1. it's a AoE
2. Undodgeable
3. Cheap
4. Stun
5. That deal a lot of burst damage
6. + 20% vs vamp and WW
7. That deal a LOT of dot damage (it's a dot that stay on player so you take at least 1 dot in the burst since u need to breakfree then you take a lot more damage overtime).
8. Unpreditable and invisible with cut anim.

This is far too much when you look at other ultimate.

The DoT need to go

1. Aoe - As are pretty much all ults.
2. Again as are pretty much all ults, leaps, meteor, destro ult etc..
3. It's not cheap, its more normal ult cost, same cost as leap, more expensive than soul assault etc..
4. Yes most ults stun, leap, meteor, incap.
5. It can get a nice tooltip yeah but other ults have more straight up burst dmg for cost, again leap/ incap.
6. Thats part of the downsides to using vamp/ ww don't go them?
7. Yeah but if you survive the initial burst + dot tick then you're usually fine, dots aren't as threatening when over 5s.
8. What exactly do you mean by unpredictable? Its an ult people aren't physic and you can't know when someones going to ult, though with enough experience its becomes obvious when. I can ani cancel any skill.

Here is the perfect exemple of the potatoes using a OP ability and hwo try to find excuse to that with his lack of knowledge.

1. Not "pretty much all ulti are AoE", Incap, Berserker Strike, Rapid fire, Soul strike, Eternal guardian and overload (AoE is never used because useless). All theze ultimate hit hard, like dawnbreaker, but are single target. Dawnbreaker is the best AoE ultimate in the game, will explain in other points.
2. Most hard hitting ultimate are dodgeable, like incap, overload, berzerker strike.
3. Dawnbreaker is the the cheapiest uncounterable AoE stun hard hitting ultimate. Soul assault, incap, feral guardian and overload are single target and easely counterable or telegraphed and Secluded grove is a heal. There is 20 ultimate in the game that cost more than dawnbreaker, and 3 that have the same cost (there is 29 ultimate in the game). You can't say dawnbreaker isn't cheap. This is not an opinion, this is fact.
4. Meteor and leap are telegraphed and so counterble, incap is dodgeable and single target, Atro deal low AoE damage and is more expensive and soul theter is also more expensive. Dawnbreaker is the best stun ultimate.
5. Incap deal less damage than dawnbreaker because of the first DoT tick being in the burst. Leap deal sligtly more burst damage but is outclassed by DBoS because it's telegraphed. Meteor on magicka build can have better tooltip but it cost far more and is telegraphed. Berzerker strike cost more and is single target. This make DBoS the best burst damage ultimate.
6. DBoS is one the 4rd ulti able to deal 20% more damage to some people. It make it even better for damage.
7. The DoT is powerfull, near 3k tooltip per second, it add strong pressure that keep you in execute range while you heal/shield yourself vs execute spamming. that dot also make DBoS BiS for group play because if 3 of people use it, you add 10k+ tooltip per second dot for 4s after the burst, and it's AoE huge pressure.
8. DBoS can be cut anim so well you can't even see the animation, the audio cue is also very bad. A good player bait other good players, he don't use ulti when it's super obvious. No one with a half brain can die to a stamden turing around a rock and casting shalks for suddently turn with DBoS + execute. Leap, meteor, other AoE stun ultimate are telegraphed and can be very easely countered.

If every stamplayer is using DBoS it's because it's the best overall offensive ultimate in the game.

There is no ultimate in the game that deal as much damage in AoE with a stun. The damage is so good it's prefered over single target ultimate, and it's deal the best AoE damage in the game.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting is overpowered and just kills similar abilities like Leap or meteor or crescent sweep.
The versatility of the ultimate make it BiS for all stamina player and magsorc/magplar/magden hwo want unpredictable burst.

how about some of you mag classes put on a defensive set instead of running around glass cannnon damage builds and you will see the skills your complaining about will hit alot less harder

Tell that to forumblades instead of complaining about how OP magicka is, complaining about shields and how useless Incap is. Not every magicka builds are shield dependent btw.

Munavar

Change Vigor to a self HoT instead of being stacked with every other stambro and then its would be 'OK'. Though it is still tied to weapon power which can get to a high value given the 'reason' of "melee is risky".

Finviuswe

Emma_Overload wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Vigor is OP? You realize how untrue that is, right?

I don't know if Vigor needs to be nerfed, but Rapid Regen definitely needs to be BUFFED in order to compete.

Give the resto staff skill line the burst heal it desparately needs and we are all good

Emma_Overload

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

3/10 too obvious you’re trolling

1) Vigor allows Stam builds to have high damage weapons on both bars. Resto skills force you to waste one bar on a Resto staff.

2) When you cast Vigor, it always works. When you cast Rapid Regen, it's an RNG crapshoot whether it even decides to heal YOU at all.

3) Finally, Vigor has a much bigger heal per second than Rapid Regen.

So who is trolling?

Lexxypwns

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

3/10 too obvious you’re trolling

1) Vigor allows Stam builds to have high damage weapons on both bars. Resto skills force you to waste one bar on a Resto staff.

2) When you cast Vigor, it always works. When you cast Rapid Regen, it's an RNG crapshoot whether it even decides to heal YOU at all.

3) Finally, Vigor has a much bigger heal per second than Rapid Regen.

So who is trolling?

Idk what you’re ranting about Rapid Regen for, but I’m referring to Springs outhealing vigor and stacking with itself from a single caster. In addition Magika has either other ways to heal(embers, lash, strife, path, BoL, arctic wind, vines, budding seed, rapid regen), damage shields, or both.

Iki

Only thing I would change with dawnbreaker is its cost, now it`s bit too cheap considering how powerful it is. Many people consider it better option for pvp than meteor for example while db costs much less. Meanwhile we have weapon-ultimates like berserker-strike and lacerate that almost none ever use in pvp and they cost 150 ultimate while dawnbreaker costs only 125.
They should simply switch those costs, 125 for berserker-strike and lacerate and dawnbreaker 150.
Vigor is fine as it is.

Solariken

Iki wrote: »

Only thing I would change with dawnbreaker is its cost, now it`s bit too cheap considering how powerful it is. Many people consider it better option for pvp than meteor for example while db costs much less. Meanwhile we have weapon-ultimates like berserker-strike and lacerate that almost none ever use in pvp and they cost 150 ultimate while dawnbreaker costs only 125.
They should simply switch those costs, 125 for berserker-strike and lacerate and dawnbreaker 150.
Vigor is fine as it is.

I would be on board with this.

Emma_Overload

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

3/10 too obvious you’re trolling

1) Vigor allows Stam builds to have high damage weapons on both bars. Resto skills force you to waste one bar on a Resto staff.

2) When you cast Vigor, it always works. When you cast Rapid Regen, it's an RNG crapshoot whether it even decides to heal YOU at all.

3) Finally, Vigor has a much bigger heal per second than Rapid Regen.

So who is trolling?

Idk what you’re ranting about Rapid Regen for, but I’m referring to Springs outhealing vigor and stacking with itself from a single caster. In addition Magika has either other ways to heal(embers, lash, strife, path, BoL, arctic wind, vines, budding seed, rapid regen), damage shields, or both.

Springs doesn't stick with you like Vigor does. I'm lucky to get the first tick. PvP moves too fast for something like that.

LoadingScreen

Aedaryl wrote: »

DBoS is overpowered.

It can be anim cancel to the point you can't counter it.

Dawnbreaker need to have his DOT REMOVED or at least GROUND based instead of player based.

DBoS is the best ultimate in the game because :

1. it's a AoE
2. Undodgeable
3. Cheap
4. Stun
5. That deal a lot of burst damage
6. + 20% vs vamp and WW
7. That deal a LOT of dot damage (it's a dot that stay on player so you take at least 1 dot in the burst since u need to breakfree then you take a lot more damage overtime).
8. Unpreditable and invisible with cut anim.

This is far too much when you look at other ultimate.

The DoT need to go

i'm not sure if i can take it serious from a 30vs5 zergling like you

Ragnaroek93

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hear, hear!

Vigor is RIDICULOUS. Why doesn't the Restoration line have anything even remotely as good, when it's supposed to be dedicated to healing?

OK, let us trade Healing Ward for Vigor.

Chilly-McFreeze

mav1234 wrote: »

DBoS seems overtuned now with the change to Incap especially. DBoS is the best ult in the game - so good that many magika use it in no CP, and most stam use it over their class ults (maybe some DKs are using leap still, but many nbs have even moved over to db, at least in no cp). I'm not sure a good solution there because I don't think just nerfing it is a good idea.

Vigor is not OP. However, hots are incredibly strong when you can move as fast as you can right now. So vigor + swift + major expedition + snare immunity = stamina is overpowered.

FM should last 2 seconds and magika should get an accessible snare immunity for that duration. Maybe a Swift nerf while we're at it...

Nerfing swift means we get a lot more "stand your ground is dead" complains from classes that are not as mobile as others. Do we want that? Only issue with swift is the bad targeting coding of this game. But another bandaid fix won't solve that, right?

"DBoS is the best ult in the game - so good that many magika use it in no CP, and most stam use it over their class ults" - maybe because their class utlimates suck? What shall I use e.g. on a stamsorc to burst someone down? Atronach, Negate or Overload? Magsorcs are bound to Meteor, which ususally is just blocked into uselessness. So it's natural that people using burst utlimates. They use DB because their class ultis don't cut it.
BTW it mostly doesn't really matter if you use a "stam" or "mag" ulti in no cp, only a certain penetration can push you towards one or the other.

MajBludd

Neef healing ward and atro, they make it too hard to kill.

Enough with the nerf crap, that's all I hear is a bunch of whiners because you got killed in your lackluster build or because you didn't block. Nerf shields, increase the cost with each use. Make it so I can crit on shields, give Stam a shield, Nerf whiners

Gnozo

Wow this nerf this and nerf that has really got to far.

Vigor stack is a really hard to get tactic in smalscale when you dont have a healbot with you. How can i ,as a stam player, heal my group member? Vigor is really nice dir this. And dont forget, we already got a cost increase cause is an aoe hot.

When you nerf DBoS then give stamsorc a good burst ult.

Wow, so many ppl crying.

technohic

Title should be “How to destroy 90% of stamina builds in the game “

Is the experience really zergs full of stamina ? I was sure it was magicka In zergs.

Finviuswe

technohic wrote: »

Title should be “How to destroy 90% of stamina builds in the game “

Is the experience really zergs full of stamina ? I was sure it was magicka In zergs.

It hardly matters. None of that matters because, everyone in the Zerg would be worse individually.

I mean in most cases

If you can draw one out you can see that

Xvorg

I knew this would happen after an Incap nerf... I said this a couple years ago, nerf Incap and stamblades will slot DBoS.

Now the solution is *** awesome, nerf DBoS and punish all builds that use it (not only stam builds).

What's coming after the DBoS nerf? Nerf Meteor?

People should stop complaining and L2P... or , ask ZoS for a better server

Xvorg

Jhalin wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

You can nerf DBoS when every stam spec has a class ulti that’s on par with incap.

DBoS is actually superior to Incap now.

With the functional cost increase to Incap, it’s just better to run DB in most situations. You get extra weapon damage, an AoE undodgeable stun > single target dodgeable stun, the DoT and increased dmg to vamps (most people in PvP lately) put it on par with the pressure from Incap’s 20% damage amp.

Incap is decent for sneak-up ganks on one person, but in open combat or even something like BGs, DBoS works way better.

It was always superior to Incap. The only thing incap had was the cost and the extra dmg, which is kind of useless considering that 70% of the time after incap you are dead. Even the defile was unnecesary, considering that a lot of stamblades open with snipe.

Myux

sounds like someone got popped by an organized group actually using strategy+voice coms and cant figure out how to beat them. DB isnt remotely an issue of balance, the issue is every other stam ult being absolute trash in addition to mags not having any mobility or viable AoE damage for organized groups. EotS is too expensive and its ticks do damage too slowly to be compareable to DB, and every other mag AoE is too weak to even be bothered with. mag lacks any benefits to an organized group outside of healing.

as for vigor, you know that pretty much every class healing skill scales with mag, right? like, you dont compare vigor to resto skills, you compare it to BoL, coag blood, embers, swallow soul, hard ward, and every green nature skill aside from spores. mag gets plenty of variable healing skills with different uses, but stam gets a jack of all trades one. its strong, but its the only one they got. (except for wardens class benefit of spores and NBs recently added dark cloak (WHICH IS REALLY *** STRONG BY THE WAY but it means you cant cloak so badblades dont use it, making it balanced tbh (also if you nerfed it my 80k hp 11k heal per sec (while defiled) memetank build would be a lot worse so please dont nerf my work of art)))

nryerson1025

Vapirko wrote: »

Just one big fat LOL.

I read this and involuntarily let out one big fat LOL

dagonbeer

technohic wrote: »

Title should be “How to destroy 90% of stamina builds in the game “

Is the experience really zergs full of stamina ? I was sure it was magicka In zergs.

What do you think is next on the docket after the magicka nerfs this patch?

As someone who PvPs 2/3s of my time on magblade and 1/3 on my stamplar, I want off this ride.

Some of the heavy stam sets could use some tuning, same with arena weapons (Master DW overperforming, too many others are useless) but in general I think balance is ok right now. I did have some ridiculous bg matches last night though where the majority of people were stamina, just dawnbreakers and s2w everywhere. Will only get worse after murkmire.

Kanar

I could support not allowing vigor to stack from multiple casters.

technohic

dagonbeer wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Title should be “How to destroy 90% of stamina builds in the game “

Is the experience really zergs full of stamina ? I was sure it was magicka In zergs.

What do you think is next on the docket after the magicka nerfs this patch?

As someone who PvPs 2/3s of my time on magblade and 1/3 on my stamplar, I want off this ride.

Some of the heavy stam sets could use some tuning, same with arena weapons (Master DW overperforming, too many others are useless) but in general I think balance is ok right now. I did have some ridiculous bg matches last night though where the majority of people were stamina, just dawnbreakers and s2w everywhere. Will only get worse after murkmire.

More zergs so long as a set that blows CV is healing goes through as it will kill stamina proactive healing along with shield nerfs really hitting independent sources more than ball groups; just not a lot you can do alone. . More dual wield master axes. My stock is in magplar now just to spam extend ritual more often than I could as a stamplar.

BlackLabel

Aedaryl wrote: »

Also vigor is overpowered because it stack with your other stam player making stamina smallscales > all because they get 10k+ heal per second just by being stacked togever.

Magicka player can't have 10k+ HoT per second just by playing normaly and it's make a difference.

Nerf vigor by diminushing the AoE HoT that give you to ally.

I’m pretty sure you can’t have 1 vigor stack on you at a time. Might be wrong though

El_Borracho

Dawnbreaker and Vigor are OP? Sigh.

Its getting to the point where I think some PVP players want to get rid of all weapons, spells, armor, healing, and evasion techniques. Just have waves of shoddily clothed people fist fighting. And even then, they would probably complain that the Khajiit's claws are OP and need to be nerfed.

Bobleeswaggen

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Give the resto staff skill line the burst heal it desparately needs and we are all good

Combat Prayer?

Lutallo

If Vigor and Dawnbreaker are OP, then just go play the class that you think is OP with those abilities. You’ll either destroy people or realise stamina is harder than you think, without an easily accessible burst heal or shield like magicka has.