Silly Nocturnal model is still a thing?

logarifmik

I did not follow the change logs for a while. Have devs done something about terrible Nocturnal model from the Summerset Chapter [snip]

[edited to remove inappropriate comment]

Royaji

Here is a quote from Matt Frior explaining a bit about ZOS's internal policies and why you are never getting any changes to Nocturnal's model. No matter how much you postpone your second character.

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

I know there’s more than a little bit of concern from our Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro players who take advantage of the HDR modes on those consoles. For those that are unaware, HDR is a graphics mode that allows the game client to far more subtly render colors to make scenes with a lot of detail almost lifelike. It is really cool and makes ESO look amazing, especially in scenes where there is a lot of color and detail, like sunsets. In the latest update, we made a change that altered the way HDR support in ESO works by “normalizing” lighting and color values, which led many players who use HDR believe it makes the game look bland.

The explanation for what happened here is illuminating, as it gives some insight into our development process, especially how we treat bugs vs. how we treat new art assets and shaders.

On the development side, we have a strict policy to never change art assets once they have been in the live game, except – and this is important – if they are obviously “wrong”. Think bad animations, shoulder pads clipping through armor, weapons hanging too far off a character model’s hip – that kind of thing. This “no change” policy has been in effect since the Redguard Female Armor Debacle of 2015. This was where we updated the visuals of one type of Redguard Female armor and pushed it live without thinking of the consequences of players who liked the way it looked and had been using it for over a year. This caused a lot of – very much merited – criticism from players that liked the older style much better. That’s when we started our “no change” policy. Even if we think an asset needs to updated because it doesn’t fit ESO’s established art style or the artist responsible thinks they could have done better, we no longer change live assets because players are used to the way the game and their characters look, and that is more important than what WE think.

Funny story about this – and I’m sure you are all seeing where this is going – we have a backlog of art bugs and issues that we address over time. If these are flagged as low priority, it can take a long time to get to them. Just after our HDR versions of ESO launched, we flagged an HDR issue where some assets were not responding correctly to our HDR renderer – their color values were not configured properly and were “blown out”, meaning they were far too bright for the established ESO art style. This was entered as a bug, and sat there (not high priority) on the bug list for a few years. Eventually it was addressed and made its way into the build that launched with Update 19 (Wolfhunter).

A side effect of this change is that it changes how our HDR “slider” bar displays HDR changes – on some TVs, you won’t notice any change after moving the slider 10-15%. This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no commonly accepted HDR standard for TVs – cheaper HDR TVs tend to be dimmer with not as much control, and higher-end TVs have a large range of brightness. You’ll definitely notice a difference after our change, especially if you have one of the lower-end TVs.

Short story: It was flagged as a bug, not an “art asset change”, so it never came to the attention of the Art Director (or me) until it went live. Obviously this should have been seen as an “art change”, not a bug fix. We should not have changed it, even if we think that the change is merited, due to our “no change once live” policy.

So now this leaves us in a sticky situation: if we change it back, there will be players that like the new way better than the old. And they will be correct, just as are the ones who like the old way – this is subjective. We are now in a no-win situation, which is why we haven’t given you guys much information up until this point. What we need to do is step back, look at our options, and figure out what is the best thing to do that makes the highest number of players happy. I’m not 100% sure what this is yet, but hang tight and we’ll let you know.

And my sincere apologies for rolling this out with no information, no background, and no heads-up. We take this very seriously, and we’ll make some process changes to ensure something like this doesn’t happen again in the future, just like we did during the Redguard Female Armor Debacle.

zaria

[snip]
People reacted as it used the costume sold to players and got critic for low resolution texture and used it on an mountain sized daedra. The other two models was much better

[edited to remove inappropriate comment]

VaranisArano

zaria wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

As far as I know, they haven't changed it, but I haven't finished the Summerset main quest on a second character yet.

People reacted as it used the costume sold to players and got critic for low resolution texture and used it on an mountain sized daedra. The other two models was much better

Mephala and Clavicus Vile were done much better, yeah. I totally think ZOS should have realized photoshop 101 that when you increase the size of your image you have to increase the resolution.

That part makes sense, and I dont think ZOS has fixed it. Its the other part that's nonsensical. I mean, badly pixelated lore-friendly fanservice doesn't make Nocturnals outfit any less lore-friendly fanservice.

...

Oh wait, is that a jab at the model being a Redguard? Wow, I'm slow today. Need more coffee.

In that case, I actually like Nocturnal being a Redguard. In ESO, the Thieves Guild we see is in Hew's Bane, a province in Hammerfell, so Nocturnal being a Redguard is a nice touch. They also made the shrikes pretty pale, so this is a nice way to distinguish Nocturnal, since ZOS didn't bother to fancy up her model otherwise, foolishly.

IMO, if the problem is that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model as opposed to the problem being that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model, well, I'm going to be less than impressed with that person's priorities and reasoning.

[Edited quoted content]

RaddlemanNumber7

It's "Art" not functionality, so I don't expect it ever to change. ZOS may think there are some players out there who love this bald lady in a badly made frock and that to change her might upset them.

SilverWF

This thread is in lack of pics...

VaranisArano

SilverWF wrote: »

This thread is in lack of pics...

When your final boss looks this badly pixelated...


When the statue has a gown and Nocturnal looks like she rolled out of bed in her PJs...

Queenmab

I mean to be real though if I was a daedric prince, I’d darn well be in PJs all the time! What good is that kind of power if you don’t have some benefit from it?

RaddlemanNumber7

Pic of Nocturnal in Summerset Main Quest

Rex-Umbra

They did much better in the wolf hunter dlc though not sure if res is the same noctural just looks cheesy.

logarifmik

[snip]

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh wait, is that a jab at the model being a Redguard? Wow, I'm slow today. Need more coffee.

In that case, I actually like Nocturnal being a Redguard. In ESO, the Thieves Guild we see is in Hew's Bane, a province in Hammerfell, so Nocturnal being a Redguard is a nice touch. They also made the shrikes pretty pale, so this is a nice way to distinguish Nocturnal, since ZOS didn't bother to fancy up her model otherwise, foolishly.

IMO, if the problem is that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model as opposed to the problem being that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model, well, I'm going to be less than impressed with that person's priorities and reasoning.

Mischief managed. Of course my main concern is how bad the model is made, but regarding the sudden bold Redguard women choice to represent Nocturnal... I can't agree, that this is the best option. Why shrikes are so pale then, huh? But wait, isn't it logical that "ladies living in shadows" are pale? I'm confused. And yeah, I know that Daedric Princes have no gender and literally can be anything they want, but for me personally the Hew's Bane questline only is not enough to justify such appearance. I referred to Social Justice Warriors here, because I don't see any good enough logical reasons to make Nocturnal... a Redguard, and where is no logic and black washing, there most likely such people can be found. All SJ sympathizers are welcomed to continue the dispute on this part of my message, but without me.

Comrades @VaranisArano, @RaddlemanNumber7, thanks for constructive answers. Guess, I'll postpone Summerset walkthrough on my second character for now.

[edited quoted content]

VaranisArano

logarifmik wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Its natural to blame SJW even if unrelated.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh wait, is that a jab at the model being a Redguard? Wow, I'm slow today. Need more coffee.

In that case, I actually like Nocturnal being a Redguard. In ESO, the Thieves Guild we see is in Hew's Bane, a province in Hammerfell, so Nocturnal being a Redguard is a nice touch. They also made the shrikes pretty pale, so this is a nice way to distinguish Nocturnal, since ZOS didn't bother to fancy up her model otherwise, foolishly.

IMO, if the problem is that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model as opposed to the problem being that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model, well, I'm going to be less than impressed with that person's priorities and reasoning.

Mischief managed. Of course my main concern is how bad the model is made, but regarding the sudden bold Redguard women choice to represent Nocturnal... I can't agree, that this is the best option. Why shrikes are so pale then, huh? But wait, isn't it logical that "ladies living in shadows" are pale? I'm confused. And yeah, I know that Daedric Princes have no gender and literally can be anything they want, but for me personally the Hew's Bane questline only is not enough to justify such appearance. I referred to Social Justice Warriors here, because I don't see any good enough logical reasons to make Nocturnal... a Redguard, and where is no logic and black washing, there most likely such people can be found. All SJ sympathizers are welcomed to continue the dispute on this part of my message, but without me.

Comrades @VaranisArano, @RaddlemanNumber7, thanks for constructive answers. Guess, I'll postpone Summerset walkthrough on my second character for now.

Huh, didnt realize this:

Her model in Skyrim is also a Redguard. I guess ESO's choice makes more sense.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nocturnal

I can see it, even though the lightning is strange.

I guess its not such a sudden choice after all. I learned something new.

So, @logarifmik if there's any "blackwashing" or bold choices being made, it looks like Bethesda is the one who made them.

logarifmik

VaranisArano wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Its natural to blame SJW even if unrelated.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oh wait, is that a jab at the model being a Redguard? Wow, I'm slow today. Need more coffee.

In that case, I actually like Nocturnal being a Redguard. In ESO, the Thieves Guild we see is in Hew's Bane, a province in Hammerfell, so Nocturnal being a Redguard is a nice touch. They also made the shrikes pretty pale, so this is a nice way to distinguish Nocturnal, since ZOS didn't bother to fancy up her model otherwise, foolishly.

IMO, if the problem is that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model as opposed to the problem being that Nocturnal has a badly pixelated Redguard model, well, I'm going to be less than impressed with that person's priorities and reasoning.

Mischief managed. Of course my main concern is how bad the model is made, but regarding the sudden bold Redguard women choice to represent Nocturnal... I can't agree, that this is the best option. Why shrikes are so pale then, huh? But wait, isn't it logical that "ladies living in shadows" are pale? I'm confused. And yeah, I know that Daedric Princes have no gender and literally can be anything they want, but for me personally the Hew's Bane questline only is not enough to justify such appearance. I referred to Social Justice Warriors here, because I don't see any good enough logical reasons to make Nocturnal... a Redguard, and where is no logic and black washing, there most likely such people can be found. All SJ sympathizers are welcomed to continue the dispute on this part of my message, but without me.

Comrades @VaranisArano, @RaddlemanNumber7, thanks for constructive answers. Guess, I'll postpone Summerset walkthrough on my second character for now.

Huh, didnt realize this:

Her model in Skyrim is also a Redguard. I guess ESO's choice makes more sense.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Nocturnal

I can see it, even though the lightning is strange.

I guess its not such a sudden choice after all. I learned something new.

So, @logarifmik if there's any "blackwashing" or bold choices being made, it looks like Bethesda is the one who made them.

Damn, that's an obvious reference to Michael Jackson in the world of TES.

Prabooo

her boobies

bloodthirstyvampire

Prabooo wrote: »

her boobies

Best bits compilation

Aliyavana

Nocturnal model was so dissapointing especially as a main enemy. Mephala was way better. My redguard looks better than she does in that dress

A_Silverius

Considering how pixelated she looks like at the ending, I'd consider that a bug. ZOS is capable of delivering finer and superior quality character designs than that, I don't understand why they'd reuse a crown store item and call it a day.