CC in PvP question

GreenHere

PvE scrub here dipping my toes more and more into PvP. Usually Cyrodiil. But today I was in the Imperial City with the event going on and all. Got into a 1v1 encounter with a DK, and have a couple questions:

1) After being Fossilized I break free then dodge roll to get unrooted, but 2 seconds or so later I was locked down again. Is there something about CC immunity I don't get here? I thought I should have been immune for at least 5 seconds or something, but I wasn't. I was hit about 1 second after the dodge roll.

2) I was running Defensive Rune, but even though it was being consumed the DK was never stunned once over the course of two separate ~20 second fights. How are they able to avoid my hard CC for so long? Can Defensive Rune be reflected/negated in ways I'm unaware of, or what?

Any enlightenment on this would be appreciated as CC in general seems kind of inconsistent from what I can tell, and I get a lot of conflicting information from people in-game.

TankHealz2015

1. CC immunity often times does not seem to work. Happens all the time on me too.

2. There is a small group of players who have learned to be perma immune to CC. I don't know how they do it...

note: often times after a big patch or DLC certain things will function differently than intended ( i.e. overperforming or underperforming) These unintended effects take a while to figure out and get fixed.

For example: after Wolfhunter DLC dropped, I was using WW form in Cyrodil and getting absolutely melted... like OMGWTF##@#$^. only days later I read that somehow the added WW resistances were not being applied- thus making WW easier to kill.

Lots of examples like this to make someone more powerful or less powerful....

Regardless. Still tons of fun in PvP. Enjoy.

Waffennacht

Just fyi - entrapment poison ignores CC immunity/root immunity

To gain "perma" immunity you can use immovible potions, can combine with escapist poison - essentially gaining massive CC immunity; can be further extended with infused potion jewelry.

Defensive Rune can be dodged thanks to the rune cage Nerf

Then there's just bugs and lag to can combine with the above for major headaches

TankHealz2015

Wait, what?

Combine immovable potion with escapist poison? What do you mean by this? I don;t understand.

As in you could use both at same time?

Didgerion

GreenHere wrote: »

PvE scrub here dipping my toes more and more into PvP. Usually Cyrodiil. But today I was in the Imperial City with the event going on and all. Got into a 1v1 encounter with a DK, and have a couple questions:

1) After being Fossilized I break free then dodge roll to get unrooted, but 2 seconds or so later I was locked down again. Is there something about CC immunity I don't get here? I thought I should have been immune for at least 5 seconds or something, but I wasn't. I was hit about 1 second after the dodge roll.

2) I was running Defensive Rune, but even though it was being consumed the DK was never stunned once over the course of two separate ~20 second fights. How are they able to avoid my hard CC for so long? Can Defensive Rune be reflected/negated in ways I'm unaware of, or what?

Any enlightenment on this would be appreciated as CC in general seems kind of inconsistent from what I can tell, and I get a lot of conflicting information from people in-game.

1. Roots and Stuns are on different cool downs. My advice is to never roll-dodge a DK's root.
2. Defensive rune can be dodged that means it can be consumed with no effect.

Do note that if you stun players they get CC immunity which guarantees them unbreakable channeling skills for the duration of immunity. If you play CP-campaign then on top of unbreakable channeling skills you give stamina players stamina-free skill.

My advice - don't stun anyone unless you burst combo with a stun. And in case of the mag-sorc your stun should be the Dawnbreaker of Smiting ultimate - yeah you read that right a physical damage ultimate is best in slot on a mag-sorc.

And throw Rune-Prison and its morphs into a garbage bin they are of no good.

Solariken

He could have been using immovable potions and/or immovable poison.

Fossilize is buggy af, I've been chain stunned by it many times.

As for Defensive Rune, they changed it to be dodgeable and therefore would not surprise me if they made it reflectable by accident (if now treated as a projectile).

Waffennacht

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Wait, what?

Combine immovable potion with escapist poison? What do you mean by this? I don;t understand.

As in you could use both at same time?

You can, but you use one after the other (potion after poison fires)

Drakkdjinn

Poor game design & lack of ZoS QA are the PvP’ers greatest opponents.

GreenHere

To be clear, I'm not familiar with dodging a Rune, though I'm aware it can now be done from reading patch notes. I've not done it nor seen it done yet. But aside from some form of Evasion, my opponent wasn't dodging anything; no roll dodges were necessary for them. Even with Evasion, you see "Dodge/Miss" in the combat text, right?

My Defensive Rune was consumed multiple times, but never stunned the guy -- over a period easily longer than 5 seconds. I did not see them dodge roll once (though I concede it's possible my brain deleted that footage for some dumb meat brain reason).

Waffennacht wrote: »

Just fyi - entrapment poison ignores CC immunity/root immunity

To gain "perma" immunity you can use immovible potions, can combine with escapist poison - essentially gaining massive CC immunity; can be further extended with infused potion jewelry.

Defensive Rune can be dodged thanks to the rune cage Nerf

Then there's just bugs and lag to can combine with the above for major headaches

Is it bad that I at first read that last part as "Major Headaches", like it was one of the Major/Minor debuffs? Major Fracture, Minor Vulnerability, Major Headaches! :P

This seems like the most likely answer given what I experienced. I was thinking maybe they were spamming the Heavy Armor skill Immovable or something, but I didn't notice the visual effects during the fighting. Quite possible I missed a cast of it, a potion use, and/or poison procs strung together while trying to free myself and fight (poorly).



Thanks for the insight, all. Guess I just gotta get good or stay out of PvP. Seems like a lot of this sort of thing defines the PvP in this game, which is a shame because (for me at least) it's a lot less fun than it could be... I don't mind fighting or losing too much, but being repeatedly locked down with little chance for response isn't much of an enjoyable or fair fight to me.

CompM4s

I highly recommend immovable potions. There are both mag and stam versions. Hit a potion before your combo to prevent interuption. There are also escapist poisons that root the enemy as well as provide you with a short immovable buff.

Waffennacht

Whatcha using @GreenHere ?

Depending on class/style you should be able to CC break on cool down (I mean you should build to be able to do so)

GreenHere

I was in my PvE gear, only had enough stam for 2 break frees and a roll dodge in short succession. Think I've only got like 11.5k stam with that setup.

It's no mystery why I died, I'm at peace with that. I'm definitely on the low end of the skill spectrum in PvP. I was just surprised at how inaccurate what I thought I understood about CC was. People being able to nearly perma lock me, and being immune to my defensive stun for <15 seconds really threw me off after I thought about it. Seeing some of the explanations in this thread have illuminated it enough to where i just have to assume my opponent knew enough sources of CC immunity to just string them together, and I guess "Fair enough" is all I can say about that.

I do wish my Defensive Rune wasn't consumed each time it did nothing, though. That did not help me during the fight.

fred4

GreenHere wrote: »

1) After being Fossilized I break free then dodge roll to get unrooted, but 2 seconds or so later I was locked down again.

Probably not by Fossilize, but by Talons. This is one reason I run Forward Momentum on nearly every build, stamina and magicka.

Is there something about CC immunity I don't get here?

Fossilize combines a hard CC and a root. Talons are only a root. There is no automatic immunity to roots. You have to use Forward Momentum. Shuffle can work for medium armor builds, but is shorter. Some people rely on Mist Form. There are some armor sets, Barkskin for example, that help with roots and snares. There are also some poisons that randomly give you immunities. I'm not sure, but are you still able to Streak (I don't play sorc)?

As long as you can still target him or plop down some mines, I guess you might also choose not to roll. Roots don't last. If you are at a point in your rotation where you shield stack anyway, might as well stay put and not waste stamina, but I guess that depends on how hard his Flame Lash is hitting you. Mag DKs want to root you, because Power Lash hits you harder and heals them.

I thought I should have been immune for at least 5 seconds or something, but I wasn't. I was hit about 1 second after the dodge roll.

Aside from Talons - not the same thing as Fossilize - it's like others have said, hard CC bugs out sometimes. In particular, I think you gain hard CC immunity only at the end of breaking free, so you can be double CCd, if someone CCs you again while you are still breaking free. This can happen in PvE and PvP. Probably requires multiple NPCs or players, though, come to think of it.

If you were roll dodging, my bet is that he first fossilized you, then stuck you into talons, as mag DKs are prone to do.

I was running Defensive Rune, but even though it was being consumed the DK was never stunned once over the course of two separate ~20 second fights. How are they able to avoid my hard CC for so long? Can Defensive Rune be reflected/negated in ways I'm unaware of, or what?

He breaks free, he gets 7 seconds. He drinks an immovability potion at the end of the 7 seconds, he gets another 10.8 seconds immunity. He uses Escapist poisons, he randomly gets 4.4 seconds immunity. He uses the Assassin's Guile set, those 4.4 seconds turn into 8.4 seconds, with the possibility to activate every 10 seconds, e.g. only 1.6 seconds downtime in the best case, from the poison.

He is an Argonian, he might use Infused potion cooldown glyphs. That would be fairly unusual, since it's a big sacrifice, but it can suit an Argonian. This allows him to drink potions every 21 seconds, thus guaranteeing 50% Immovability uptime from potions alone.

He uses the heavy armor skill, he gets 5 seconds immovability at will, but at a very high cost. I don't think many people use that skill, and certainly not a mag toon.

In other words, it is legitimately possible to prioritise Immovability up time, although I know few people who would combine all of the above methods.

I cannot speak to any bugs or foibles of Defensive Rune, since I don't play sorc. It could be something like that as well, but I wanted to point out the legitimate ways of achieving this.

fred4

Some people are also very fast breaking free. In particular, if they have bash in their rotation, they would not reactively break free, but do it automatically, which almost cancels the animation sometimes. That's because the bash key and break free key are one and the same. I don't, however, see a mag DK doing that. It's basically a one-hand-and-shield stamina thing.

You can also break free with the Psijic ult, but I only see people using that under severe pressure and obviously not frequently.