In a pvp world full of resource straining mechanics do:

usmguy1234

Argonians perform better than other races?

LeifErickson

No

You lose a ton of damage going Argonian. There is only certain builds where I think it's worth the damage loss.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

LeifErickson wrote: »

You lose a ton of damage going Argonian. There is only certain builds where I think it's worth the damage loss.

Question is can you not run two damage sets as argonian since resources aren't a issue? A lot of information going around implies that you can. I know other classes can do the same but can they do it as well?

CatchMeTrolling

LeifErickson wrote: »

You lose a ton of damage going Argonian. There is only certain builds where I think it's worth the damage loss.

You don’t really lose a ton of damage, if anything argonian allows you to stack damage

leepalmer95

Yes

Yes, everyone knows argonian passives are stupidly strong.

And yes the potion passive is the best resource passive in the game. You usually get more stamina return from an argonian than you would a redguard for example then you have the other resources as well.

Juhasow

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Argonians perform better than other classes?

Argonian is not the class.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

Juhasow wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Argonians perform better than other classes?

Argonian is not the class.

It's been fixed. Thanks.

CyrusArya

It’s BiS for all magicka except sorc imo. It’s a very strong package of sustain and healing. The off stat sustain especially is so desirable. Other races get more damage, yes. But damage is also easy to build for. I don’t think it necessarily needs a nerf though. Orc is equally overpowered in a PvP environment relative to other stam races, but the game isn’t just about PvP and these races need a place to shine.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

CyrusArya wrote: »

It’s BiS for all magicka except sorc imo. It’s a very strong package of sustain and healing. The off stat sustain especially is so desirable. Other races get more damage, yes. But damage is also easy to build for. I don’t think it necessarily needs a nerf though. Orc is equally overpowered in a PvP environment relative to other stam races, but the game isn’t just about PvP and these races need a place to shine.

Agreed. I'm definitely in the camp of bringing other races up to par rather than nerfing 100%.

Waffennacht

Other (Explain please)

Swim speed OP with swift....

NBrookus

Other (Explain please)

You give up resource pools and the matching damage/shields/etc. if you go argonian.

Argonian is growing comparatively more powerful because of the proliferation of proc damage sets and CP power creep, while the resource return remains static.

The solution is not to nerf argonian passives, since this will hugely penalize lower level character and low CP characters, but to dial back the power creep. Alternative, unnerf sustain across the board so that the sustain from racial passives isn't as desirable. But I vote for controlling power creep, since it is causing multiple issues.

IZZEFlameLash

No

Argonians themselves are not OP. You sacrifice quite a bit of damage especially if you are a stam trying to gain a great sustain. On magicka, all they are basically good for are healing and tanking on top of polishing spears. I feel like nerf to sustain made people desperate on top of certain sets

RighteousBacon

Other (Explain please)

I would argue that if you run an argonian dragon knight in heavy armor, you have no need to invest in recovery whatsoever.

Therefore, you are able to run pure damage and tank sets that enhance your max stats, crit, or directly effect your damage. You don’t have to worry about sustain.

An argonian on other classes may have to rely on a little bit more recovery than a dragonknight, but still

Kikke

Yes

I'm mainly on about non-CP PvP

argonian with infused potion coldown glyphs

If anyone tells you you will lose too much 'dmg' running this they dont understand PvP.

Lets put this in some perspective okey?

a dunmer DK will need one set for protection, and one set for dmg, and it's sustain will be utter trash.
a Argonian DK can run 1 protection set and one for dmg and have endless sustain.

Who off these DKs will win a 1v1 you think?

thankyourat

No

I go back and forth between argonian and high elf for my magblade and I don't notice a huge difference in Magicka sustain. The differences I notice is in stamina sustain. Getting that extra stamina when ever I use a potion keeps my stamina pool close to full all the time. The increased max Magicka from high elf gives me a much stronger damage shield. My max Magicka pool as an argonian is around 56k while my max Magicka pool as a high elf is close to 60k that's 4k extra Magicka for damage as well in addition to increased elemental damage so high elf is hitting noticeably harder.

What I been thinking about though is as an argonian I still had plenty of damage to kill players even if high elf is hitting way harder so it might be better to just stick with argonian for the healing and Stam sustain. The damage loss is noticeable but it's so many places too get free damage from, either by using bleeds or proc sets or all these crazy spell/weapon damage boosting sets, weapon enchants/poisons that it's better to just build to tank and sustain and get your damage from the things I've listed.

Qbiken

Yes

Argonian carries so many people atm it´s ridiculous. If anything I hope the resourceful passive gets some nerfs with the next update. And no, you don´t sacrifice a lot of damage by running argonian.

CatchMeTrolling

Qbiken wrote: »

Argonian carries so many people atm it´s ridiculous. If anything I hope the resourceful passive gets some nerfs with the next update. And no, you don´t sacrifice a lot of damage by running argonian.

It was already nerfed with morrowind

GimpyPorcupine

Other (Explain please)

Argonians outperform in support roles, but I don't think that holds for DDs.

Qbiken

Yes

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Argonian carries so many people atm it´s ridiculous. If anything I hope the resourceful passive gets some nerfs with the next update. And no, you don´t sacrifice a lot of damage by running argonian.

It was already nerfed with morrowind

The fact that I can go from 0-100 on all my resources (HP, mag and stam) with a tri-pot in PvP shows how un-balanced it is.

Gilvoth

Yes

they seem to survive longer and more Tankier.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

For those saying that you give up a lot of burst as argonian, I've seen a few argonian magblade/stamblade builds and they can be built super bursty with disgusting survivability.

CatchMeTrolling

Qbiken wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Argonian carries so many people atm it´s ridiculous. If anything I hope the resourceful passive gets some nerfs with the next update. And no, you don´t sacrifice a lot of damage by running argonian.

It was already nerfed with morrowind

The fact that I can go from 0-100 on all my resources (HP, mag and stam) with a tri-pot in PvP shows how un-balanced it is.

That’s more so tri pots combined with argonian + DK, not argonian. Tri pots are a luxury as well, everyone can’t afford them nor have the resources to make them.

Argonians shouldn’t take a hit because of how they synergize with pots, traits or classes. This was the same issue that happened with Templars , everyone complained about Templars instead of the things making them over perform which had nothing to do with the class itself. And as a result got the class survivability nerfed.

If anything cap resource return, problem solved.

NBrookus

Other (Explain please)

usmguy1234 wrote: »

For those saying that you give up a lot of burst as argonian, I've seen a few argonian magblade/stamblade builds and they can be built super bursty with disgusting survivability.

That's more a function of nightblade than argonian.

Kikke

Yes

Anyone saying argonians is NOT op in pvp is currently playing as one, and dont want their op'ness be nerfed.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

NBrookus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

For those saying that you give up a lot of burst as argonian, I've seen a few argonian magblade/stamblade builds and they can be built super bursty with disgusting survivability.

That's more a function of nightblade than argonian.

Right but saying argonians can't stack damage and hit really hard while remaining tanky is misleading.

IZZEFlameLash

No

usmguy1234 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

For those saying that you give up a lot of burst as argonian, I've seen a few argonian magblade/stamblade builds and they can be built super bursty with disgusting survivability.

That's more a function of nightblade than argonian.

Right but saying argonians can't stack damage and hit really hard while remaining tanky is misleading.

Compare Redguard NB and Altmer NB to Argonian NBs in their respective specs. You will know the answer. Former races offer far more damage than the Argonian one. Argonians also do not really offer that much recovery even with certain setups. If you really want to be a sustain monster, you also have to build for sustain a little on Argonians. As NBrookus said, that is more of a functioning of NB.

LeifErickson

No

The only thing Argonians have better than others is the off stat sustain. A player can get more mag regen out of high elf if they are sitting at somewhere around 2k regen (can't remember the exact number) but the Argonian will have better stam sustain than the high elf. But the high elf gets way more magicka and the elemental damage passive. Seems pretty balanced to me.

If Argonian got nerfed I would race change immediately.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

LeifErickson wrote: »

The only thing Argonians have better than others is the off stat sustain. A player can get more mag regen out of high elf if they are sitting at somewhere around 2k regen (can't remember the exact number) but the Argonian will have better stam sustain than the high elf. But the high elf gets way more magicka and the elemental damage passive. Seems pretty balanced to me.

If Argonian got nerfed I would race change immediately.

In a pvp sense sustain is everything. If you can sustain with only potions this allows you to stack fully in to damage. The reason the other races out perform argonians in pve is because sustain isn't such an issue. That 2k regen that my altmer has doesn't mean anything when I'm getting blasted with cost poisons and getting cc'd continuously.

IZZEFlameLash

No

usmguy1234 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

The only thing Argonians have better than others is the off stat sustain. A player can get more mag regen out of high elf if they are sitting at somewhere around 2k regen (can't remember the exact number) but the Argonian will have better stam sustain than the high elf. But the high elf gets way more magicka and the elemental damage passive. Seems pretty balanced to me.

If Argonian got nerfed I would race change immediately.

In a pvp sense sustain is everything. If you can sustain with only potions this allows you to stack fully in to damage. The reason the other races out perform argonians in pve is because sustain isn't such an issue. That 2k regen that my altmer has doesn't mean anything when I'm getting blasted with cost poisons and getting cc'd continuously.

Argonians also get affected by cost poisons. Cost poisons affect everyone.

usmguy1234

Other (Explain please)

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

The only thing Argonians have better than others is the off stat sustain. A player can get more mag regen out of high elf if they are sitting at somewhere around 2k regen (can't remember the exact number) but the Argonian will have better stam sustain than the high elf. But the high elf gets way more magicka and the elemental damage passive. Seems pretty balanced to me.

If Argonian got nerfed I would race change immediately.

In a pvp sense sustain is everything. If you can sustain with only potions this allows you to stack fully in to damage. The reason the other races out perform argonians in pve is because sustain isn't such an issue. That 2k regen that my altmer has doesn't mean anything when I'm getting blasted with cost poisons and getting cc'd continuously.

Argonians also get affected by cost poisons. Cost poisons affect everyone.

I didn't say that cost poisons didn't effect argonians. It just effects them differently as their regen is more burst and other races regen is like a hot. Also does their poison resist passive have any effect? That point I truly don't know.

Cêltic421

No

I think its more than the play style and the player. I never played an argonian. I heal on a High Elf mag templar and mainly use trash mag pots and I tank on an imperial dk and dont run into resource issues, i use tri pots as well, its a luxury i can afford.