Suggestion: Make all melee attacks have a range of 7m

Strider__Roshin

Melee heavy attacks have had their range reduced to 7m in order to allow better weaving with melee abilities such as uppercut. A similar QoL improvement was done previously to Impale in order to help combat feel more fluid.

My suggestion is to increase the range of all melee attacks to 7m in order to maintain this fluidity. Abilities such as Surprise Attack and Incapacitating Strike fill only have a range of 5m; which disrupts the flow of combat when your heavy attack lands, but the ability you're trying to weave into fails to fire.

Strider__Roshin

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Wrobel

redspecter23

I'd be fine with this. Have some standard ranges. Close range (melee), long range and use non standard ranges very sparingly as exceptions to the norm.

Side note, I wish the scale didn't use 7m to denote melee range. Punching someone 21 feet away just doesn't feel right. I suppose that it has to have a longer range to make it feasible to hit moving targets in pvp but can't they just call it 1m or 2m for notation purposes?

Ragnarock41

If anything the 7m range on dizzying swing gives it a slight edge in melee fights. If you want everything else to be at 7 meters, then uppercut would need a small compensation as its already too difficult to use in the current meta.

In another point of view, the last thing stamblades need right now is a buff, even though your suggestion is a good one, this has to be said.

Starlock

Huh. I didn't realize there was an inconsistency. Seems kind of silly if true.

Ragnarock41

Starlock wrote: »

Huh. I didn't realize there was an inconsistency. Seems kind of silly if true.

It hardly makes a difference in reality, if you're not using d.swing, chances are you will not even notice this is a thing.

_Ahala_

How about we give dw and s&b abilities/ weaves and melee class abilities all a 7 m range and give 2h abilities/ weaves and aedric spear abilities a 10 m range because realism

Ragnarock41

_Ahala_ wrote: »

How about we give dw and s&b abilities/ weaves and melee class abilities all a 7 m range and give 2h abilities/ weaves and aedric spear abilities a 10 m range because realism

that would make a lot of sense to be real. 2h is a big slow weapon and the weapon abilities heavily reflect that. It should have the range advantage over other melee weapons.

Thalidar

Never played a dps before so this seems confusing to me.

How do daggers or any other melee weapon hit something 7 metres away in any combat scenario, (unless they're thrown of course).

Isn't that about 22 feet or are we all actually playing giant version of our races.

Strider__Roshin

Because if we could only hit something that's within 2 meters then stam would not exist just like range DPS wouldn't exist if the abilities had to be manually aimed rather than free fired.

Waffennacht

I second this idea!

Here here

Savos_Saren

_Ahala_ wrote: »

How about we give dw and s&b abilities/ weaves and melee class abilities all a 7 m range and give 2h abilities/ weaves and aedric spear abilities a 10 m range because realism

But then you have attacks like Burning Embers, Flame Lash, Volatile Armor, Steel Tornado, Hurricane, etc that are "melee range" but inconsistent with 7 or 10meters.

How far should a DK's whip reach? 10m? How far should their Venomous Claws reach? 7m? Steel Tornado is supposed to have a larger radius- so should it initially be 7m unmorphed and then 10m morphed? Hurricane stretches beyond Boundless Storm- but both are "melee" distances (yet sometimes don't count as melee damage for armor set buffs).

Oakmontowls_ESO

Melee damage, for the purposes of sets and passives, is damage that scales from stamina/weapon damage and has a range of 8 or less meters.

Checkmath

I am not a fan of making all melee skills the same range. There are skills in melee range superior than others and some kind of advantage can be given to the not as good as skills by having a little bit more range.

Aedaryl

I disagree, buffing stamina range is the last thing PvP need.

Taking range as a mag build is already hard enough, don't make it useless.

IZZEFlameLash

Melee range should be consistent, not differ skill by skill. I agree with this proposal.

Galarthor

Yey ... another (indirect) buff NB thread.

As long as NBs are ruling supreme in both PvP and PvE, ZOS should refrain implementing any changes that further buff that class. That would be like adding fuel to the fire.

Btw ... how is the mathemetical comparision of factors influencing shield strength and factor influencing damage that you promised us coming along? We are still waiting and it has been like 2 weeks and we very eager to see it, so we can finally resolve the issue, because that has been going on for way too long.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

It hardly makes a difference in reality, if you're not using d.swing, chances are you will not even notice this is a thing.

Yeah, your target might notice if you have a 40% range increase. Those attacks hit hard. The only reason it currently doesn't really matter is b/c of the high speed of stamina builds and their immunity to slows and roots.

It's a damn melee build. Technically the range should be like 2m. But I get that that is not feasible in the lag and the high movement speed of the the game. But 7m is the hight of a 3 story building ... seems totally reasonable.

gepe87

Melee with range? What a paradox.

Strider__Roshin

Galarthor wrote: »

Yey ... another (indirect) buff NB thread.

As long as NBs are ruling supreme in both PvP and PvE, ZOS should refrain implementing any changes that further buff that class. That would be like adding fuel to the fire.

Btw ... how is the mathemetical comparision of factors influencing shield strength and factor influencing damage that you promised us coming along? We are still waiting and it has been like 2 weeks and we very eager to see it, so we can finally resolve the issue, because that has been going on for way too long.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

It hardly makes a difference in reality, if you're not using d.swing, chances are you will not even notice this is a thing.

Yeah, your target might notice if you have a 40% range increase. Those attacks hit hard. The only reason it currently doesn't really matter is b/c of the high speed of stamina builds and their immunity to slows and roots.

It's a damn melee build. Technically the range should be like 2m. But I get that that is not feasible in the lag and the high movement speed of the the game. But 7m is the hight of a 3 story building ... seems totally reasonable.

Magblades rule PvE; not stamblades. And no, stamblades don't rule PvP either. As far as my analysis goes you're going to have to wait. I probably play ESO in one week around the same amount of time a lot of people put in a day. And I still haven't made a build video yet which people have been waiting for longer than a damage shield analysis.

Also 7m is the height of a 2-story building; not 3. I know it's still ridiculous, but the inaccuracy of that statement bothered me.

Galarthor

Oh right, I forgot, the official story of you stamblades is that you are and always have been in a tough spot and in fact the weakest class in PvP.

That, however, does not change that stam NBs are the kings of PvP. And the fact that you might not be able to global a lot of targets is caused by your own OPness that forced players to build tanky. That doesn't make your class less OP however.

As for the stories in a building ... I guess that depends on your building and the country you live in. But a story hight of 3.5 meters seems a little bit excessive, at least for modern buildings. A story hight of 2.7m (including the floor of the next story / a flat roof) is more realistic and put the building more in the range of a 3-story building than a 2-story building. While this fact is pretty much irrelevant,I mention it because it (in your own words) bothered you.

Merlin13KAGL

Daus wrote: »

Because if we could only hit something that's within 2 meters then stam would not exist just like range DPS wouldn't exist if the abilities had to be manually aimed rather than free fired.

Sure it would, if you simply dialed back Ranged range, as well.

It's monumentally counterintuitive when your weapon attack 'connects' while there is still a giant gap between you and your target.

Aim always had a 'miss' factor in standalones, one that reduced greatly as your skill increased in a particular line.

FWIW, I do agree with your post, if it's going to remain counterintuitive, it should at least be consistent. Finding that perfect spot where you inch forward to be able to hit your target at 5m is just as absurd.

(And while were at it, factoring in sets that have a 3m effect basically requires them to be visually in your lap.)

SilverWF

With the usual Cyro lags that 7m would converts to 10 or even more.
Thx no.

Ragnarock41

SilverWF wrote: »

With the usual Cyro lags that 7m would converts to 10 or even more.
Thx no.

Have you, EVER, tried using jabs or uppercut under lag? Why do I even ask lmao. I know the answer.

Erraln

Thalidar wrote: »

Never played a dps before so this seems confusing to me.

How do daggers or any other melee weapon hit something 7 metres away in any combat scenario, (unless they're thrown of course).

Isn't that about 22 feet or are we all actually playing giant version of our races.

It's a break from reality that's used to make combat feel better in the face of server delay, ping issues, and other facts of life on MMO's. This isn't a fps where you can just join a server with a lower latency.

Your idea of where other players are standing can be a full second behind, or more at times. Their representation on your screen is only a vague idea of where they *were*, and having 'melee' skills be a damage box with a moderate frontal area helps keep that fact hidden and irrelevant to most people.

On topic, I'm all for consistent game rules like this suggestion. It's likely that those shorter-range abilities simply haven't been looked at since others in the same category have been changed. Exceptions and edge cases happen quite frequently when Zeni tries to make a new rule.

Galarthor

Erraln wrote: »

It's a break from reality that's used to make combat feel better in the face of server delay, ping issues, and other facts of life on MMO's. This isn't a fps where you can just join a server with a lower latency.

Your idea of where other players are standing can be a full second behind, or more at times. Their representation on your screen is only a vague idea of where they *were*, and having 'melee' skills be a damage box with a moderate frontal area helps keep that fact hidden and irrelevant to most people.

On topic, I'm all for consistent game rules like this suggestion. It's likely that those shorter-range abilities simply haven't been looked at since others in the same category have been changed. Exceptions and edge cases happen quite frequently when Zeni tries to make a new rule.

We have the same issue with ranged abilities. They won't activate b/c from the point of view of the server the target isn't there anymore.

And talking about being handicapped in a laggy environment: Magicka builds are at a far greater disadvantage than stamina builds. Not only do our attacks have the same issues as yours, but unlike your ZOS-favored defensive mechanisms Block, Dodge (,and Sprint) ours suffer from lag and are oftentimes compeltely useless. That's why you see so many magicka builds dodging when it is lagging.

So before you continue whining about how hard you stamina builds got it, you should have the decency to support improvements to builds that suffer way worse under lag than you do.

Emma_Overload

Surprise Attack and Incap need range buffs?

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAA...

You can buff SA and Incap on the same day they fix Crystal Frag so that I can actually hit someone with it who is standing right in front of me!

Erraln

Galarthor wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

It's a break from reality that's used to make combat feel better in the face of server delay, ping issues, and other facts of life on MMO's. This isn't a fps where you can just join a server with a lower latency.

Your idea of where other players are standing can be a full second behind, or more at times. Their representation on your screen is only a vague idea of where they *were*, and having 'melee' skills be a damage box with a moderate frontal area helps keep that fact hidden and irrelevant to most people.

On topic, I'm all for consistent game rules like this suggestion. It's likely that those shorter-range abilities simply haven't been looked at since others in the same category have been changed. Exceptions and edge cases happen quite frequently when Zeni tries to make a new rule.

We have the same issue with ranged abilities. They won't activate b/c from the point of view of the server the target isn't there anymore.

And talking about being handicapped in a laggy environment: Magicka builds are at a far greater disadvantage than stamina builds. Not only do our attacks have the same issues as yours, but unlike your ZOS-favored defensive mechanisms Block, Dodge (,and Sprint) ours suffer from lag and are oftentimes compeltely useless. That's why you see so many magicka builds dodging when it is lagging.

So before you continue whining about how hard you stamina builds got it, you should have the decency to support improvements to builds that suffer way worse under lag than you do.

I don't play stam, mate.

Galarthor

Erraln wrote: »

I don't play stam, mate.

The "you" was meant in general towards all stamina players complaining here. But I get why it might have been ambiguous with the quote on top.

ku5h

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Surprise Attack and Incap need range buffs?

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAA...

You can buff SA and Incap on the same day they fix Crystal Frag so that I can actually hit someone with it who is standing right in front of me!

Yea this guy is amazing. He is every sorc tread trolling and asking for stupid nerfs and at the same time has no shame in asking stam buffs, no less stamNB buffs. The guy is epitome of bias.

Galarthor

ku5h wrote: »

Yea this guy is amazing. He is every sorc tread trolling and asking for stupid nerfs and at the same time has no shame in asking stam buffs, no less stamNB buffs. The guy is epitome of bias.

That's only consistent: If sorcs are OP, then NBs naturally need buffs.