Stamblade vs Magsorc Strategies

mr_wazzabi

I've played the game since console release, both pvp and pve. I've gotten flawless conqueror on 4 toons and generally have a good handle of the game.

One thing I've always struggled with is fighting magsorcs. Yes I have killed them, but more often than not, when I run into a magsorc of higher skill, I'm usually on the losing end. I don't have too much of a problem against other specs, other than magdk, but that's a discussion for another time.

My biggest disadvantage is being in medium armour, which relies on dodge to survive. Problem is, curse and endless fury are undodgeable. The rune cage change is great, but I still get nuked by endless fury, which is the one ability I have the most trouble trying to counter.

I run bone pirate, spriggans and bloodspawn. I know spriggans doesn't help against shields and have been farming direfrost keep for hulking draugr weapons that never drop.

Here's a typical scenario. I pop immovable pot, poison inject, gap close and pressure with surprise attack. When their shields go down, I fear and incap.

Problem is, a lot of times while I'm taking down their shields, my health is going from 100 to 20, then they pop fury and I die.

I have rally up almost all the time and use vigor when health drops, but vigor won't take me out of 20% fast enough.

What should I do?

Sparr0w

Treat vigor like your shield, apply on cooldown. If your health hits 20% you're dead. All you can do is stun, stun, stun.

Rally burst heal is literally a lifesaver should your health start to drop low.

GrigorijMalahevich

Rune cage doesn’t work on immovable pots. Vigor and dodge will easily outheal anything magsorc can throw at you.

I think this is a troll/bait post.

mr_wazzabi

Valera Progib wrote: »

Rune cage doesn’t work on immovablen pots. Vigor and dodge will easily putheal anything magsorc can throw at you.

I think this is a troll/bait post.

Not a troll post.

Checkmath

Endless fury was changed last patch and is now dodgeable, also the debuff part which executes. So you really only have to worry about curse now, which you should be able to outheal easely. Apply your vigor at least before curse damages you to prevent going down from a good combo.

GrigorijMalahevich

Checkmath wrote: »

Endless fury was changed last patch and is now dodgeable, also the debuff part which executes. So you really only have to worry about curse now, which you should be able to outheal easely. Apply your vigor at least before curse damages you to prevent going down from a good combo.

Are you sure? I was executed by fury while rolling about two weeks ago... I don’t think you can dodge execute from fury, you can block it though...

Naughty_Ryder

Try using Troll King

LegendaryMage

First off, two of your sets are pretty much useless in those fights.

Spriggan & Bloodspawn. BS is useless because you rely on dodging, maybe cloaking and generally not being hit often, so BS is not helping you there. What you want is Velidreth and that helps with taking shield(s) down quicker when it tags them. Plus wpn dmg is great too.

You can get penetration in other ways, but generally if you struggle against sorcs try either a 2h axe or greatsword which works best vs shields (for pure armor pen you can go sharpened maul, and that works great vs stam).

So a middle-ground option is a sharpened sword, or a nirnhoned maul, or just a nirnhoned sword if damage shields are really what's bothering you and you need to improve a bit.

You obviously want some shattering blows and good CP placements for both offense and defense, this is very important.

As for your second set, there are options but if you're unsure, you'd be better off with something basic like Shacklebreaker and tri-pots.

I run 2 heavy on chest/legs, chest is reinforced and legs impene, the idea is that you can cloak and CC on demand without having magicka problems. This also works great in BGs with tatters.

Also make sure you have at least 4-5% healing done in CPs, as well as 7-8% healing taken. Even though you want to avoid getting hit, when you do, you wanna be able to heal up quicker.

The more you can cloak, the harder it will be for them to tag you and easier for you to burst them down at the right time.

You will come off as annoying, but hey, you're there to kill them, not entertain them.

Edit; Oh and as for doing damage, this also depends greatly on your skills and rotations, my way is to cloak into lethal (guaranteed crit altho not on dmg shields), light attack into poison injection and hopefully proc dot poisons and then swap into melee to inflict some more pressure with things like relentless (awesome for breaking shields), SA, Incap etc. Do this at medium range at most, so you can tag reliably with Velidreth when it procs.

Another good way to kill sorcs is with Ballista and CC, they hate this ultimate if used at the right time, it forces them to spend tons of magicka to shield through all that dmg, and alternatively drain the stam pool to dodge it.

Here's an example (it auto starts) on how I used to do it on stamplar;

https://youtu.be/Sc9Dos673hA?t=3m56s

Checkmath

Valera Progib wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Endless fury was changed last patch and is now dodgeable, also the debuff part which executes. So you really only have to worry about curse now, which you should be able to outheal easely. Apply your vigor at least before curse damages you to prevent going down from a good combo.

Are you sure? I was executed by fury while rolling about two weeks ago... I don’t think you can dodge execute from fury, you can block it though...

With Wolfhunter patch endless fury got changed, so that is can be dodged completely. Before you still got the executing debuff, even tough you dodged the initial attack. But on life, you will not get that debuff anymore when dodging the skill. But aif you got the debuff on you, you can not dodge the execute damage anymore.

leepalmer95

It's all about timing your burst, if they have shields up you are not going to kill them.

Apply small pressure while staying alive and build up a bow proc and time your incap when their shield is just about to drop etc... A incap/ bow with a inject tick is usually enough.

Plus keep fearing on cooldown to hit that stam, some sorc's make the mistake of roll dodging at the wrong time and theres a chance you could catch them out of stam.

The only thing you need to heal is curse, you can easily avoid/ dodge everything else with roll + cloak.

Lexxypwns

I like Balorgh, hold your ult, wait til shields are about to drop, Incap-Scourge-GG

Micah_Bayer

Valera Progib wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Endless fury was changed last patch and is now dodgeable, also the debuff part which executes. So you really only have to worry about curse now, which you should be able to outheal easely. Apply your vigor at least before curse damages you to prevent going down from a good combo.

Are you sure? I was executed by fury while rolling about two weeks ago... I don’t think you can dodge execute from fury, you can block it though...

It is now dodgable

GrigorijMalahevich

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Endless fury was changed last patch and is now dodgeable, also the debuff part which executes. So you really only have to worry about curse now, which you should be able to outheal easely. Apply your vigor at least before curse damages you to prevent going down from a good combo.

Are you sure? I was executed by fury while rolling about two weeks ago... I don’t think you can dodge execute from fury, you can block it though...

It is now dodgable

He said that “debuff part which executes” is dodgeable, well it isn’t. The skill itself is dodgeable, but what I understood, that you can dodge the execute phase, which is not possible if you didn’t dodge the initial fury hit...

I just didn’t want to go in to detail, but since it is second time - ther you go.

Zelos

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I've played the game since console release, both pvp and pve. I've gotten flawless conqueror on 4 toons and generally have a good handle of the game.

One thing I've always struggled with is fighting magsorcs. Yes I have killed them, but more often than not, when I run into a magsorc of higher skill, I'm usually on the losing end. I don't have too much of a problem against other specs, other than magdk, but that's a discussion for another time.

My biggest disadvantage is being in medium armour, which relies on dodge to survive. Problem is, curse and endless fury are undodgeable. The rune cage change is great, but I still get nuked by endless fury, which is the one ability I have the most trouble trying to counter.

I run bone pirate, spriggans and bloodspawn. I know spriggans doesn't help against shields and have been farming direfrost keep for hulking draugr weapons that never drop.

Here's a typical scenario. I pop immovable pot, poison inject, gap close and pressure with surprise attack. When their shields go down, I fear and incap.

Problem is, a lot of times while I'm taking down their shields, my health is going from 100 to 20, then they pop fury and I die.

I have rally up almost all the time and use vigor when health drops, but vigor won't take me out of 20% fast enough.

What should I do?

Shield breaker... with ballista into a fear then relentless = Dead

Minalan

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

crazy_catman21

Shield breaker

Finviuswe

Minalan wrote: »

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

This. Mag sorc is at such an awful point compared to where it used to be.

Run the sorc out of stam (not hard and you can pretty gauge after a few break frees or dodge rolls that the sorc is out of stam), cc (fear) and ulti drop. That is always how you kill a sorc who is 'hard to kill'.

Sun7dance

crazy_catman21 wrote: »

Shield breaker

Additionally you can wear Assassin's Guile and give him a 15,5 sec magicka cost increase poison.

Checkmath

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

This. Mag sorc is at such an awful point compared to where it used to be.

Run the sorc out of stam (not hard and you can pretty gauge after a few break frees or dodge rolls that the sorc is out of stam), cc (fear) and ulti drop. That is always how you kill a sorc who is 'hard to kill'.

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self. But this happened to other classes aswell and they stayed in that awful position for a longer time than magsorc now is. You remember the days, where dks and templars where really strong? Well they still are not back there and are a gimped version of that old class.

Derra

Checkmath wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

This. Mag sorc is at such an awful point compared to where it used to be.

Run the sorc out of stam (not hard and you can pretty gauge after a few break frees or dodge rolls that the sorc is out of stam), cc (fear) and ulti drop. That is always how you kill a sorc who is 'hard to kill'.

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self. But this happened to other classes aswell and they stayed in that awful position for a longer time than magsorc now is. You remember the days, where dks and templars where really strong? Well they still are not back there and are a gimped version of that old class.

Especially magDK was god tier compared to virtually any other class when comparing knowledge + buttonmashing ability needed to perform well pre 1.6.
Let´s not try to sell it in a way that it would be in some form desireable to go back to that shall we - because that wasn´t balanced in the slightest.
DK right now IS really strong again. Just not on playstyles comparable to the old 1h shield block and kill 10 idiots while doing so.

On topic:
Sounds like you´re playing too offensive while not having high enough pressure - which basically means you leave yourself open to attacks while not forcing the magsorc to constantly defend against you.

Generally speaking - you won´t kill a decent magsorc with a classic 2h/bow stamblade build. The design of shields counters the frontloaded burst of stamblades quite well. That being said - they shouldn´t kill you either (post wolfhunter). You can dodge and cloak all of a sorcs dmg apart from curse - which is easily outhealed with vigor - keeping rally for situations where you make a mistake.

What this generally leads to is poke and cloak (until incap burst is rdy) by NBs with the sorc being generally not in control of the fight and turteling. You have to hope to get lucky with a good procc or a buggy CC break to kill a sorc.
Same as the sorc has to hope for you to missplay your strenghs and allow them to land 4 offensive spells in a row (that should never happen).

If you want to fight magsorcs headon as your initial posts suggests your setup seems to be wrong for that. You´ll want to increase defense + hp while shifting dmg towards dots/pressure instead of burst.

Finviuswe

Checkmath wrote: »

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self.

Well this is undeniably a true statement. It's a gimped class and not all that fun anymore, though I've always thought stam is more enjoyable to play. I just think the nerfs went a little too far to the point where the class don't make sense to play right now. I prefer nerfs to keep classes in check, with them remaining viable to run.

Checkmath wrote: »

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self. But this happened to other classes aswell and they stayed in that awful position for a longer time than magsorc now is. You remember the days, where dks and templars where really strong? Well they still are not back there and are a gimped version of that old class.

I would say stamplar performs better than mag sorc in the current meta given both are in capable hands. I believe stamplar has a higher performance 'ceiling' than sorc, though it lacks the bells and whistles sorc has, namely ranged combat.

Classes were nerfed, it has happened before and will keep happening. DK in general is not in a great place in PVP. As someone who mainly plays in non-cp, both stam dk and mag dk are minimally threatening in most cases. Especially if you are no longer running vamp. Stam dk is worthwhile for duels, other than that there are better options no matter what content you're running. Mag DK can be very potent and dangerous, but lacks mobility, which is a huge handicap.

I would love to see the dk class buffed to bring it closer to its former glory, then, maybe I would want to play dk. I maintain that stamplar can still perform very well. Magplar has a niche as a healer/buffer imo.

Lord-Otto

Checkmath wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

This. Mag sorc is at such an awful point compared to where it used to be.

Run the sorc out of stam (not hard and you can pretty gauge after a few break frees or dodge rolls that the sorc is out of stam), cc (fear) and ulti drop. That is always how you kill a sorc who is 'hard to kill'.

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self. But this happened to other classes aswell and they stayed in that awful position for a longer time than magsorc now is. You remember the days, where dks and templars where really strong? Well they still are not back there and are a gimped version of that old class.

Ironically, both classes perform very well against sorcs. You're just looking at sorc's general power, but that comes at the cost of being countered easily by almost every class. So while our class seems OK against enemies who don't know how to counter, we're severely struggling against those who do. Temps and DKs are more consistent in their performance. So no, I don't think it's a just comparison here.

Finviuswe

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

ESO_GOD wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here, I've written a detailed guide for you.

How to beat a trash-tier magsorc using the most powerful class in the game:

This. Mag sorc is at such an awful point compared to where it used to be.

Run the sorc out of stam (not hard and you can pretty gauge after a few break frees or dodge rolls that the sorc is out of stam), cc (fear) and ulti drop. That is always how you kill a sorc who is 'hard to kill'.

Maybe magsorc is at an awful point compared to pre-Clockworkcity and now you call it a shadow of its former self. But this happened to other classes aswell and they stayed in that awful position for a longer time than magsorc now is. You remember the days, where dks and templars where really strong? Well they still are not back there and are a gimped version of that old class.

Ironically, both classes perform very well against sorcs. You're just looking at sorc's general power, but that comes at the cost of being countered easily by almost every class. So while our class seems OK against enemies who don't know how to counter, we're severely struggling against those who do. Temps and DKs are more consistent in their performance. So no, I don't think it's a just comparison here.

No, the comparison didn't make sense because sorc didn't actually need nerfing. The old school dk class was severely unbalanced, in need of a nerf. Sorc was not even that good last patch

Vahrokh

Here, your best stamblade vs magsorc strategy:

Usually a dozen of nerf sorc threads are enough to bait Wrobel and make him nerf sorcs more. That's it. No more effort involved than that.

IAVITNI

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It's all about timing your burst, if they have shields up you are not going to kill them.

Apply small pressure while staying alive and build up a bow proc and time your incap when their shield is just about to drop etc... A incap/ bow with a inject tick is usually enough.

Plus keep fearing on cooldown to hit that stam, some sorc's make the mistake of roll dodging at the wrong time and theres a chance you could catch them out of stam.

The only thing you need to heal is curse, you can easily avoid/ dodge everything else with roll + cloak.

Pretty much this.

Depending on skill level/experience of the magsorc you can also LA+PI a couple of times into an Incap without having to time their shields or bow proc. The moment you see them not shield stack, you should be able to Incap burst. A lot of magsorcs will not realize that those 2 weaves just chipped away half their shield and won't bother refreshing them.

If it's a 1v1 and you think that the sorc has low resource sustain you can just Cloak into Sneak and stun them on CC immunity. This will drain stam but also their magicka. Everytime a nb enters Cloak, most sorcs will re-shield and more than likely shield stack. It also creates mental pressure as the sorc is on edge or may let their guard down. Won't work on the most experienced sorcs but it is what I used to do on a gankblade that only used Incap and Executioner.

I'm a magsorc main btw. If youre on console, players often stop applying pressure because they don't feel they are doing damage. You are, so don't stop unless you need to Vigor/rebuff.

NightAngel690

#1: get master bow.
#2: put weapon enchant on master bow.
#3: get a 2h and make it nirnhoned and throw on mag increase poison
#4: rotation.

1. Aka the skilled stamblade (as in it actually takes some work because you don’t have cloak to fall back on) If you want to LoS, buff up, heavy attack into poison injection. Boom 600 damage increase due to procing master bow and weapon enchant. Gap close, fear, DBoS, Light attack suprise attack spam until that sorc is dead. Even if they get up, just stay behind them and spam the light attack suprise attack combo. The magpoison will make it so they can’t keep up their shield indefinitely and if they’re still alive when the cc immunity ends, fear them again and start it all over again.

For a gank, if you’re in open world, lethal arrow is amazing. Snipe, light poison inject. Takes about 50% of their Heath down in half a second. From there, do the LoS combo minus the fear as they will already be stunned. I recommend running incap if you want to go down the ganker role though. Keeps targets from healing instantly. So long as you have 3k damage, you’re good. I started out as a ganker and have been killing maxed out players (including sorcs) since I was 200cp. I recommend sheer running venom and swamp raider. Op as heck with the update.

I forgot to mention, if you’re a ganker (I’m about to trigger the forum warriors with what I’m about to say) put all your traits , except your big pieces, as divine. You don’t need to worry about crit resistance because as a ganker, you have no business trying to go head to head with a shield stacking mag sorc. your job is to kill people as quickly and effectively as possible. If you’re trying to LoS, impen is a must.

The best sets to use if you’re LoS fighting is heavy. Makes it so you’re not a typical squishy Nb. Run bone pirate for sustain or haulking draugr for max stats. Run that as jewelry and 2 armour pieces. For flat damage, run hundings. It’s the current meta, yes, but it is amazing. If you think you’re tanky enough, run any other proc set that’s gives you x weapon damage when you take damage or deal damage.

mr_wazzabi

NightAngel690 wrote: »

#1: get master bow.
#2: put weapon enchant on master bow.
#3: get a 2h and make it nirnhoned and throw on mag increase poison
#4: rotation.

1. Aka the skilled stamblade (as in it actually takes some work because you don’t have cloak to fall back on) If you want to LoS, buff up, heavy attack into poison injection. Boom 600 damage increase due to procing master bow and weapon enchant. Gap close, fear, DBoS, Light attack suprise attack spam until that sorc is dead. Even if they get up, just stay behind them and spam the light attack suprise attack combo. The magpoison will make it so they can’t keep up their shield indefinitely and if they’re still alive when the cc immunity ends, fear them again and start it all over again.

For a gank, if you’re in open world, lethal arrow is amazing. Snipe, light poison inject. Takes about 50% of their Heath down in half a second. From there, do the LoS combo minus the fear as they will already be stunned. I recommend running incap if you want to go down the ganker role though. Keeps targets from healing instantly. So long as you have 3k damage, you’re good. I started out as a ganker and have been killing maxed out players (including sorcs) since I was 200cp. I recommend sheer running venom and swamp raider. Op as heck with the update.

I forgot to mention, if you’re a ganker (I’m about to trigger the forum warriors with what I’m about to say) put all your traits , except your big pieces, as divine. You don’t need to worry about crit resistance because as a ganker, you have no business trying to go head to head with a shield stacking mag sorc. your job is to kill people as quickly and effectively as possible. If you’re trying to LoS, impen is a must.

The best sets to use if you’re LoS fighting is heavy. Makes it so you’re not a typical squishy Nb. Run bone pirate for sustain or haulking draugr for max stats. Run that as jewelry and 2 armour pieces. For flat damage, run hundings. It’s the current meta, yes, but it is amazing. If you think you’re tanky enough, run any other proc set that’s gives you x weapon damage when you take damage or deal damage.

By LoS are you meaning "line of sight"?

NightAngel690

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

NightAngel690 wrote: »

#1: get master bow.
#2: put weapon enchant on master bow.
#3: get a 2h and make it nirnhoned and throw on mag increase poison
#4: rotation.

1. Aka the skilled stamblade (as in it actually takes some work because you don’t have cloak to fall back on) If you want to LoS, buff up, heavy attack into poison injection. Boom 600 damage increase due to procing master bow and weapon enchant. Gap close, fear, DBoS, Light attack suprise attack spam until that sorc is dead. Even if they get up, just stay behind them and spam the light attack suprise attack combo. The magpoison will make it so they can’t keep up their shield indefinitely and if they’re still alive when the cc immunity ends, fear them again and start it all over again.

For a gank, if you’re in open world, lethal arrow is amazing. Snipe, light poison inject. Takes about 50% of their Heath down in half a second. From there, do the LoS combo minus the fear as they will already be stunned. I recommend running incap if you want to go down the ganker role though. Keeps targets from healing instantly. So long as you have 3k damage, you’re good. I started out as a ganker and have been killing maxed out players (including sorcs) since I was 200cp. I recommend sheer running venom and swamp raider. Op as heck with the update.

I forgot to mention, if you’re a ganker (I’m about to trigger the forum warriors with what I’m about to say) put all your traits , except your big pieces, as divine. You don’t need to worry about crit resistance because as a ganker, you have no business trying to go head to head with a shield stacking mag sorc. your job is to kill people as quickly and effectively as possible. If you’re trying to LoS, impen is a must.

The best sets to use if you’re LoS fighting is heavy. Makes it so you’re not a typical squishy Nb. Run bone pirate for sustain or haulking draugr for max stats. Run that as jewelry and 2 armour pieces. For flat damage, run hundings. It’s the current meta, yes, but it is amazing. If you think you’re tanky enough, run any other proc set that’s gives you x weapon damage when you take damage or deal damage.

By LoS are you meaning "line of sight"?

Yes. Basically, it’s just a fancy way to say brawling.


I realized I forgot to mention the monster helm. That’s your choice but if you really want to chew through their shields, do vet March of Sacrifice and get balorgh. Or, you can run bloodspawn for LoS. Selene’s And veli are also good options but more geared towards a gank. If you have enough stam, you could always run 2 kena especially for defending. I would proc the set and just light attack poison inject people to death. (I had double dot poisons from my sets so I would get 3-5k damage ticks with the poisons fully buffed.)

Strider__Roshin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I like Balorgh, hold your ult, wait til shields are about to drop, Incap-Scourge-GG

Honestly this set is a game changer against shield stacking; plus if you have enough ult stored your Incap will also knock them down.

frostz417

Endless is honestly a stupid broken execute. BG’s is littered with many of these sorc noobs sitting in the back spamming endless getting easy kills since the delay execute is broke. Then you gave the unavoidable curse. Which really isn’t all too bad imo but when paired with everything else it’s just an annoyance. My only issue with sorcs is endless fury. That dumb execute really needs to be looked at because it takes no skill to even use. Just pop endless and have your teammates do the damage so that debuff then goes off awarding you with a free kill you literally did nothing to get.

Priyasekarssk

frostz417 wrote: »

Endless is honestly a stupid broken execute. BG’s is littered with many of these sorc noobs sitting in the back spamming endless getting easy kills since the delay execute is broke. Then you gave the unavoidable curse. Which really isn’t all too bad imo but when paired with everything else it’s just an annoyance. My only issue with sorcs is endless fury. That dumb execute really needs to be looked at because it takes no skill to even use. Just pop endless and have your teammates do the damage so that debuff then goes off awarding you with a free kill you literally did nothing to get.

I think BG scoring is fixed. Its now done on damage and healing rather than kills.