Thank you for the small changes to crafting, but may I suggest...

Violynne

I have 4 alts and they're set up like this:
2 are 10/10 for all crafting, level 50 in all skills.

2 are 1/10 for all crafting, level 50 in all skills.

I do this because I can't afford to drop 400 rubedite/ancient silk mats, per day, on daily writs which is nothing more than throwing away everything I acquire.

With the level 1, the perks are getting the surveys, a decent return on the mats they use (they never go beyond level 1), and of course the gold. Until I can get more skill points, they'll stay 1/10 for some time, and the only thing I "lose" are the master writs.


I noticed immediately the number of items to do low-level writs has been dropped to 1 each. THANK YOU. Can't tell you how mundane it was to craft 3 inferno, 3 ice, and 3 lightning staves or 6 bows and 2 shields.

I noticed something when I turned in my writs: I get inspiration for two of the alts, but not for the other two.

I quickly surmised this must be connected to the 1/10 vs 10/10 in the skill trees passives for materials.

This brings me to an issue, one which has bothered me for some time: Why are the skill levels not taken into consideration?

The types of materials we can use are passives, not skills. Our skills allow us to update our passive, yet almost everything in the game relies on the passive as the "reward" mechanic of writs.

For example: why can't each of my level 50s get a master writ even if they don't have all passives unlocked? I am confident most people playing the game use a single character to do the master writs, because trying to get motifs on every character is insane.

Also, I would greatly appreciate it if my level 50s only get rubedite/ancient silk as rewards. All these other mats are just taking up inventory space as there is no need for them because most of us now speed level alts to level 50 in crafting.

Please consider fixing this for the next update.

Thanks!

Turelus

I think the goal is to hand the higher tier rewards to invested crafting characters.

It's not meant to be that you can level all the skill lines then get the "best" rewards for not investing SP or being able to actually craft the items.

Mirelurk

Getting to 50 in skills is only a small part of being a master crafter.

The next most important is trait knowledge, and after that motifs are the icing on the cake.

Unlocking the passives is a given, you can't expect the rewards on the cheap.

Violynne

Turelus wrote: »

I think the goal is to hand the heigh tier rewards to invested crafting characters.

It's not meant to be that you can level all the skill lines then get the "best" rewards for not investing SP or being able to actually craft the items.

This makes no sense, honestly. The only difference between the two sets of characters is a lack in passives, again only to save mats of top tier.

In time, I do plan on changing this, but I need more mats (400 per day would deplete my current inventory in a week) and more skill points (haven't farmed skyshards on these characters yet).

Regardless, if I get all four to 10/10 passives, I'm still going to use only one alt to do the master writs each get.

I currently do this with the second 10/10 passive alt. My Altmer gets writs, and then hands them to my Bosmer who has 27 motifs learned (and still can't do more than half received).

This is why I believe it should be a level based system, not a passive based system.

idk

Turelus wrote: »

I think the goal is to hand the higher tier rewards to invested crafting characters.

It's not meant to be that you can level all the skill lines then get the "best" rewards for not investing SP or being able to actually craft the items.

This is pretty much it. BTW< there are no skills in crafting. It is all passives. There seemed to be some confusion on this matter in the OP.

Turelus

Violynne wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I think the goal is to hand the heigh tier rewards to invested crafting characters.

It's not meant to be that you can level all the skill lines then get the "best" rewards for not investing SP or being able to actually craft the items.

This makes no sense, honestly. The only difference between the two sets of characters is a lack in passives, again only to save mats of top tier.

In time, I do plan on changing this, but I need more mats (400 per day would deplete my current inventory in a week) and more skill points (haven't farmed skyshards on these characters yet).

Regardless, if I get all four to 10/10 passives, I'm still going to use only one alt to do the master writs each get.

I currently do this with the second 10/10 passive alt. My Altmer gets writs, and then hands them to my Bosmer who has 27 motifs learned (and still can't do more than half received).

This is why I believe it should be a level based system, not a passive based system.

You're asking for the benefits of spending top tier materials without spending them though. Those big rewards are because it costs you top tier materials to get them.

Even if you do the master writs on a single character you're looking for more ways to farm them for that character at a lower cost to yourself. It's about cost and reward. Something isn't a "master reward" if you can earn it with minimal investment or cost.

The alternative is they could add some kind of novice writs which only grant a single voucher but can be earned from lower level crafting writs.

idk

Writs serve two general purposes.

1. a means to help level up crafting for characters that are not maxed.
2. a means to grant continued reason to do writs by offering greater rewards since max crafting would not benefit from the inspiration.

It is that simple and makes sense.

StamWhipCultist

I have several crafters as well. Main crafter is crafting all on max, including jewelry. Rest are all either without skill points invested so they craft tier 1 stuff, or are using provisioning, enchanting and alchemy with all passives while the rest is tier 1.

Inklings

Violynne wrote: »

I do this because I can't afford to drop 400 rubedite/ancient silk mats, per day, on daily writs which is nothing more than throwing away everything I acquire.

The gold you make a lone from doing writs will pay for the mats needed at current MM prices. There is no reason not to do the top tier writs if you have the skill points to spend, and if you dont i strongly suggest you spend the few hours to get the skill points needed. You only need 84 skill points to do max level writs and get research passives. You get 68 skill points just from leveling 1-50. Hit up the public dungeons, do the skill point challenge and grab the sky shard and you have enough in just an hour or so.

Violynne wrote: »

With the level 1, the perks are getting the surveys, a decent return on the mats they use (they never go beyond level 1), and of course the gold. Until I can get more skill points, they'll stay 1/10 for some time, and the only thing I "lose" are the master writs.

You are also loosing out on a MUCH higher chance at getting gold legendary upgrade mats like tempers and gains. This is were, making large profits off writs comes in. Its about a 25% per writ to get those at max tier and they all sell very well.

ghastley

A couple of points:

You can advance the passives that increase refinement benefits, and research, without changing the one that controls the writ levels. Staying at Rank 1 to use only the lowest level materials is viable now that you get back more than you use. Before the latest change I was always running short of Jute.

The trade-off is between competition among your top-level crafters for mats, and the extra chances of master writs. You have to do the ruby writs to get the master writs back. Everything else is independent, for a level 50 crafter. There's a minor effect from the other content of the reward package, but more gold tempers etc. come from refining, then writ returns. Buying raw mats and refining can be done at any rank, and you just need the refinement passive.

I just don't worry when I run short of the top-level materials. The exception being when I need some for a master writ, of course, but that's a lot less than one character's dailies.

Violynne

Inklings wrote: »

The gold you make a lone from doing writs will pay for the mats needed at current MM prices.

Whether it be gold or mats, I'm still at a loss until I build up my resources (which I'm currently doing - nearly 10k in rubedite ore and wood, a hair over 5k for silk/leather).

There is no reason not to do the top tier writs if you have the skill points to spend, and if you dont i strongly suggest you spend the few hours to get the skill points needed.

Sadly, it's not a few hours with these alts. For my stamBlade, when I returned to the game, I power leveled the remaining crafting for her as well, but farmed the skyshards. This took over 16 hours, not something I'd call "a few". This isn't even a weekend run for me and I really don't relish having to do it twice more.

This is why the only limitation I have are the skill points. I do intend to level them, but when I'm ready to do "an hour a night".

Since I've only been back a few months, I'd rather play and pick up stuff in the meantime so when I do level them, losing "400 a day" won't even cross my mind as the makeup I do during a week's play covers this "loss".

I've don't consider picking up items while playing "grinding".

Getting skyshards... most definitely is grinding.

You are also loosing out on a MUCH higher chance at getting gold legendary upgrade mats like tempers and gains. This is were, making large profits off writs comes in. Its about a 25% per writ to get those at max tier and they all sell very well.

I can see people may have forgotten how the game works, but this isn't entirely accurate.

Because my "level 1s" are also level 50s, I get both level 1 and level 50 mats. This is the only time the game takes the skill into consideration.

This trade-off of "losing" level 50 mats is made up for the fact the level 1s cover the daily costs of doing writs (especially now with the 1 item per writ change - woo hoo!).

The master writ drops would not be affected by these characters, because it's well regarded the more motifs one learns, the more drops one gets.

In order for me to "take advantage of not leveling" would mean every character would also have to have those motifs learned, and that's simply impossible for my position.

This is why only my Bosmer does master writs. She has 27 full motifs learned.
Excluding the blue/purples the game drops, none of my other alts have any full motif learned, which means their drop rates for master writs is practically non-existent.

To put this in perspective: while my Altmer doesn't have full motifs learned, she has several pages learned. If I were to combine these into "books", I'd say she has a total of 3 motifs learned.

She gets no more than 5 motif drops per week, 90% being enchanting/provisioning. Of the other types that will drop, I've yet to see a writ voucher worth more than 40. Worse, she can do none of those which drop.

Hence, they're handed to my Bosmer, who can (usually) do them.

Ironic, considering my Altmer is my main.

This is why I'm not so much concerned about the master writs, because with only blue/purple learned, the "level 1s" would most likely receive less than 3 writs per week, and judging by history, most will be enchanting.

This makes sense, because many "starter" master writs usually drop enchanting as something we can complete, but not reward the good stuff until more motifs are learned.

That's why I can't buy the belief this is about a "zero sum" game. I hit level 50 on crafting and if I had the skill points, I'd still be disadvantaged because I can't learn the better master writs.

I'm not asking to have these types of master writs, just to clarify. But I do believe having master writs dropped at level 50, rather than passive 10/10, is a proper solution to the request.

I'll be more than happy to get 3x Enchanting master writs for 2 writs each, and leave the stronger writs to those who have "earned" it through motif learning.

The 3 digit writs my Bosmer is now getting is due to the 1million+ gold I spent last weekend to get her to 27 full motifs learned.

This is why I don't see this as a "zero sum" game, just one in which I don't find my mats going into a sink hole and not get rewarded just because I don't have the passives to get the writs, but clearly have the skills to work and gain the material (rubedite ore/leater/silk).

AlnilamE

Violynne wrote: »

Also, I would greatly appreciate it if my level 50s only get rubedite/ancient silk as rewards. All these other mats are just taking up inventory space as there is no need for them because most of us now speed level alts to level 50 in crafting.

Please consider fixing this for the next update.

Thanks!

The reason you get these middle tier mats is because when they generalized the resource nodes to apply to Crafting skill tier/character level on a 50/50 basis, crafters were concerned that they would not be able to find mid-tier materials. So ZOS compromised by putting in a materials box in writ rewards that did not have a survey in them *at a lower level than the crafting skill level of the character*. Since there is no level lower than 1, any Tier 1 characters will always get either a survey (which you can feed your high crafters) or a box of maple/iron/rawhide/jute.

That said, ZOS should absolutely streamline crafting materials to the same number of tiers as Jewelry, since the low CP tiers are petty much useless these days.

Inklings

Violynne wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

The gold you make a lone from doing writs will pay for the mats needed at current MM prices.

Whether it be gold or mats, I'm still at a loss until I build up my resources (which I'm currently doing - nearly 10k in rubedite ore and wood, a hair over 5k for silk/leather).

There is no reason not to do the top tier writs if you have the skill points to spend, and if you dont i strongly suggest you spend the few hours to get the skill points needed.

Sadly, it's not a few hours with these alts. For my stamBlade, when I returned to the game, I power leveled the remaining crafting for her as well, but farmed the skyshards. This took over 16 hours, not something I'd call "a few". This isn't even a weekend run for me and I really don't relish having to do it twice more.

This is why the only limitation I have are the skill points. I do intend to level them, but when I'm ready to do "an hour a night".

Since I've only been back a few months, I'd rather play and pick up stuff in the meantime so when I do level them, losing "400 a day" won't even cross my mind as the makeup I do during a week's play covers this "loss".

I've don't consider picking up items while playing "grinding".

Getting skyshards... most definitely is grinding.

You are also loosing out on a MUCH higher chance at getting gold legendary upgrade mats like tempers and gains. This is were, making large profits off writs comes in. Its about a 25% per writ to get those at max tier and they all sell very well.

I can see people may have forgotten how the game works, but this isn't entirely accurate.

Because my "level 1s" are also level 50s, I get both level 1 and level 50 mats. This is the only time the game takes the skill into consideration.

This trade-off of "losing" level 50 mats is made up for the fact the level 1s cover the daily costs of doing writs (especially now with the 1 item per writ change - woo hoo!).

The master writ drops would not be affected by these characters, because it's well regarded the more motifs one learns, the more drops one gets.

In order for me to "take advantage of not leveling" would mean every character would also have to have those motifs learned, and that's simply impossible for my position.

This is why only my Bosmer does master writs. She has 27 full motifs learned.
Excluding the blue/purples the game drops, none of my other alts have any full motif learned, which means their drop rates for master writs is practically non-existent.

To put this in perspective: while my Altmer doesn't have full motifs learned, she has several pages learned. If I were to combine these into "books", I'd say she has a total of 3 motifs learned.

She gets no more than 5 motif drops per week, 90% being enchanting/provisioning. Of the other types that will drop, I've yet to see a writ voucher worth more than 40. Worse, she can do none of those which drop.

Hence, they're handed to my Bosmer, who can (usually) do them.

Ironic, considering my Altmer is my main.

This is why I'm not so much concerned about the master writs, because with only blue/purple learned, the "level 1s" would most likely receive less than 3 writs per week, and judging by history, most will be enchanting.

This makes sense, because many "starter" master writs usually drop enchanting as something we can complete, but not reward the good stuff until more motifs are learned.

That's why I can't buy the belief this is about a "zero sum" game. I hit level 50 on crafting and if I had the skill points, I'd still be disadvantaged because I can't learn the better master writs.

I'm not asking to have these types of master writs, just to clarify. But I do believe having master writs dropped at level 50, rather than passive 10/10, is a proper solution to the request.

I'll be more than happy to get 3x Enchanting master writs for 2 writs each, and leave the stronger writs to those who have "earned" it through motif learning.

The 3 digit writs my Bosmer is now getting is due to the 1million+ gold I spent last weekend to get her to 27 full motifs learned.

This is why I don't see this as a "zero sum" game, just one in which I don't find my mats going into a sink hole and not get rewarded just because I don't have the passives to get the writs, but clearly have the skills to work and gain the material (rubedite ore/leater/silk).

So much for me to address here im not even sure were to start. Im gonna give you a short background of myself before i go into details. I do max tier writs on 30 characters a day(210 writ daily). I make 2 and a half million gold per week just from writs alone. Im also a member of the ESO stream team and the main focus of my streams are writs and efficiency. Every week or two i do a session on stream were i teach people about writs. We break them down and go over numbers, %s, earnings, costs and time. There are few people that understand writs better then i do.

Now lets address some points where i think i can help you.

After doing one writ, you are making more then enough gold to buy the mats needed for the next days writs. You are never at a loss of mats if you "spend money to make money". Eventual this will get to the point were you can buy weeks and even months of mats to feed all your writs daily. What youre willing to collect from surveys is just a bonus. I only collect surveys once a year. I let them stack into the 20-30s and it makes it much easier to farm them and i still pull off amazing profits.

Master writs are not only based off motifs known. In fact only 3 of the 7 writs have motifs increase the base drop chance for them and even those ones have another factor as well and its traits learned. Traits are not expensive and only require time. Knowing all traits for blacksmithing, woodworking and clothing give you around a 18% chance to get a master writ. I personally only have all motifs learned on one character. They arnt needed to get a good return from top tier writs. Also the low voucher master writs ADD UP. Dont underestimate them. In fact the low voucher enchanting and alchemy writs sell for almost double per voucher then higher ones do.

When you say its taking you 16 hours to get sky shards youre not wrong there, your just going about this all wrong. I have shown on stream how to level a character from 1-50, level all professions and get the needed amount of skill points for writs all in under 4 hours. If youre main focus is to only use a character to do writs then yes it only takes a few hours to get the needed skill points and sky shards arnt the way to do it efficiently. Base zone public dungeon blitz will get you 21 skill poiints in around and hour if you do all 16 of them.

The 25% chance rate you have of getting tempers, wax, rosin, kuta, and chrome gains at max tier writs will also make you enough money that if we take motifs out of the equation it makes them still worth doing over the way you currently are.

I really like how passionate you are about this but your understanding of the system is a bit off. If you have any questions or want more detailed explanations about anything i said here. Please feel free to DM me or even stop by stream to see how all this works in real time.

Nestor

In addition to what Inklings said, Master Writs are for Master Crafters. L50 does not mean Mastery, just that you deconned a few hundred items. You need to invest 50 to 60 skill points in the craft, and have crafting knowledge to qualify for Master Writs. These are not a gimme just for showing up.