Regen or Reduce Cost?

raasdal

The age old question!

Math tells us that Reduce Cost is best for almost everyone when spamming skills on GCD. But when out of combat or otherwise not spamming skills, Regen is better. This is of course also depending on how much resource return you have (pots, argonian, DK, sets, etc etc.) and the fact that everyone needs at least some regen to recover when inevitably you run out.

I am interested in knowing your choces and why? On your current build, which are you using and why (if any)?

Brutusmax1mus

When i run heavy, I'm always im in 1 reduce cost. It's a noticeable sustain difference during combat bc of siphoner impacting recovery in cp and poisons are applied after the reduction, diminishing its effect to a degree. Medium and light have that already so i typically go elsewhere. On argonian i go with 1 reduce cost on magicka characters even in light.

IZZEFlameLash

Regens are always better due to stackability. It is like huge spell cost reduction every seconds. If you can reduce costs to where your regen is at, then yes, reduce cost is much more useful but that simply is not the case.

CatchMeTrolling

On demand regen seems to be better personally, I’ve only used reduced cost via set, cp and race passive. In a game with no cooldowns, the ability to pressure someone, POISONS and unpredictable combat; well regen seems to be the safer route.

Mrsinister2

It seems if your running an already low regen build then reduced cost works out better then trying to add a small amount of regen.

On my dk I run 800 regen with one infused reduced cost and it seems to work out really well but I was also running bloodthorn.

Brutusmax1mus

1 infused cost reduction is about equal to 648 regen if your casting 1 spell per second. It's awesome actually. On stam, 1 non infused glyph is about a 8-10% reduction to some skills for stamina.

An infused regen is only 270 every 2 seconds. 8100 regen over a minute. To save that with an infused reduction you only need to cast 25 skills in a minute. I definitely do that in combat most of the time.

Siphoner impacts regen, not cost reduction.
Poisons impact those without cost reduction more.

Regen is easily buffed by cp and skills, cost reduction is not. So that 270 can really be higher.

Good balance between the two really

ChefZero

Cost reduction is superior on supporter cause they cast more frequently and have to handle more expensive skills usually.

DivineFirstYOLO

Actually.. if you are out of combat the regen glyphs on your jewelry won't work any more (at least it was like that when i tested on summerset pts) ... get an addon like harvens attribute bars and test yourself if you want to... out of combat regen is one of those mysteries i have not managed to solve yet.

fred4

Race is a factor. For example, as a woodelf, regen is heavily buffed and Bone Pirate is statistically a very good set. If you're running that, and a drink (obviously), stacking regen makes sense with your percentage buff.

On the other hand, stamina cost reduction also reduces dodge roll costs and, I presume, sprint and break free cost. If you stack heavily into medium Well-Fitted and stamina cost reduction you can dodge roll over 20 times in a row (out of combat, at least).

Another consideration is that your out-of-combat regen is not helped by regen glyphs on jewelry, nor by regen set bonuses. It is, however, boosted by the Atronach / Serpent mundus and foods / drinks. While statistically the best food is tri-food (I think), the aforementioned leads me to prefer regen foods (Lava Foot Soup, Ghastly Eye Bowl, Dubious Camoran Throne, Witchmother's Potent Brew) for two reasons:

Getting your magicka regen from Atro mundus and food / drink grants you higher out-of-combat mag-regen and allows you to cloak for longer as a magblade. If you want to perma-cloak, out-of-combat, then cost reduction also helps, whereas magicka regen from glyphs or armor bonuses does not.

In a similar vein, I find magicka warden a very buff-heavy class. I was running an unbalanced build that had much higher magicka on one bar than the other. While waiting for a resource to turn I would frequently refresh my buffs and shield, and I preferred the Atro mundus over running regen jewelry to keep my magicka up while out of combat.

Aedaryl

fred4 wrote: »

Race is a factor. For example, as a woodelf, regen is heavily buffed and Bone Pirate is statistically a very good set. If you're running that, and a drink (obviously), stacking regen makes sense with your percentage buff.

On the other hand, stamina cost reduction also reduces dodge roll costs and, I presume, sprint and break free cost. If you stack heavily into medium Well-Fitted and stamina cost reduction you can dodge roll over 20 times in a row (out of combat, at least).

Another consideration is that your out-of-combat regen is not helped by regen glyphs on jewelry, nor by regen set bonuses. It is, however, boosted by the Atronach / Serpent mundus and foods / drinks. While statistically the best food is tri-food (I think), the aforementioned leads me to prefer regen foods (Lava Foot Soup, Ghastly Eye Bowl, Dubious Camoran Throne, Witchmother's Potent Brew) for two reasons:

Getting your magicka regen from Atro mundus and food / drink grants you higher out-of-combat mag-regen and allows you to cloak for longer as a magblade. If you want to perma-cloak, out-of-combat, then cost reduction also helps, whereas magicka regen from glyphs or armor bonuses does not.

In a similar vein, I find magicka warden a very buff-heavy class. I was running an unbalanced build that had much higher magicka on one bar than the other. While waiting for a resource to turn I would frequently refresh my buffs and shield, and I preferred the Atro mundus over running regen jewelry to keep my magicka up while out of combat.

I don't think stamina reduce cost glyph reduce the cost of dodge roll, sprint and break free cost. It doesn't I checked.

For reduce cost, there is something people need to understand.

You NEVER have the true number write on the reduce cost glyph, the more you have passives diminushing the cost of spell, the less the reduce cost will be effective.

A Magicka sorc in 5 light armor (15% reduce cost) have a gold reduce cost (203 value) having a true value of 172.

An Infused reduce cost lower my tooltip for 276 when it's write 324 tooltip.

In opposite, as an altmer (10%) light armor (20%), vampire (10%), sorcerer (10%) with CP (14%), under major intellect buff (20%), a gold regen glyph (174 tooltip) give me 309 mag regen. Difference is huge.

StamWhipCultist

for PvP I like to run one reduce feat cost. I would use it over regen any day.

Jeezye

I also feel on my magblade one reduce cost, one regen evens my sustain best. This is just empirically tested to my needs, no in-depth calculations. Since I tend to spamm sap/swallow on GCD helps in heated situations, the regen puts me at just 2k which is my sweet spot.

raasdal

fred4 wrote: »

Race is a factor. For example, as a woodelf, regen is heavily buffed and Bone Pirate is statistically a very good set. If you're running that, and a drink (obviously), stacking regen makes sense with your percentage buff.

On the other hand, stamina cost reduction also reduces dodge roll costs and, I presume, sprint and break free cost. If you stack heavily into medium Well-Fitted and stamina cost reduction you can dodge roll over 20 times in a row (out of combat, at least).

Another consideration is that your out-of-combat regen is not helped by regen glyphs on jewelry, nor by regen set bonuses. It is, however, boosted by the Atronach / Serpent mundus and foods / drinks. While statistically the best food is tri-food (I think), the aforementioned leads me to prefer regen foods (Lava Foot Soup, Ghastly Eye Bowl, Dubious Camoran Throne, Witchmother's Potent Brew) for two reasons:

Getting your magicka regen from Atro mundus and food / drink grants you higher out-of-combat mag-regen and allows you to cloak for longer as a magblade. If you want to perma-cloak, out-of-combat, then cost reduction also helps, whereas magicka regen from glyphs or armor bonuses does not.

In a similar vein, I find magicka warden a very buff-heavy class. I was running an unbalanced build that had much higher magicka on one bar than the other. While waiting for a resource to turn I would frequently refresh my buffs and shield, and I preferred the Atro mundus over running regen jewelry to keep my magicka up while out of combat.

I was honestly not aware that Regen Glyphs did not affect out of combat regen.

They really need to remove that distinction and just have Regen. No difference on in / out of combat.

Nestor

It really comes down to how you play and your build and rotation.

So, here is how you find out, make purple cp160 regen and cost reduction glyphs. Try each out and see which helps you manage resources over the length of the fight. Then, ince you know, make Gold Glyphs.

Also, Regen is one of those things that you have get up to about 2k or better for it to be a real factor in how you play. Where cost reduction helps even in smaller amounts.

Ragnarock41

Majority of the time the answer is regen. Even more so in medium and light armor builds due to how their cost reduction passives work.

Then again I'm mostly playing stamina toons in no-cp campaign so my experience is limited to that. The lack of natural regen in no-cp means that even with bone pirate+dubious, an extra regen glyph is not a waste. And in CP campaign I find sustaining so easy that I usually go full weapon damage anyways.

scipionumatia

@Brutusmax1mus question: If your wearing a set like seducer, and use 1 reduce cost glyph. will the seducer bonus subtract from the remainder after deducting the glyph? or will the glyph subtract from the remainder after deducting seducer 5pc?

Brutusmax1mus

scipionumatia wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus question: If your wearing a set like seducer, and use 1 reduce cost glyph. will the seducer bonus subtract from the remainder after deducting the glyph? or will the glyph subtract from the remainder after deducting seducer 5pc?

The % bonus is applied after the reduction, so it effectively diminishes the effect of % reduction.

scipionumatia

@Brutusmax1mus got ya so in that case probably better to go with regen

Brutusmax1mus

If you're running light armor, breton, and seducer at once, yes.

But say you're in heavy seducer, that's your only reduction.

Healing ward costs 4590. So 4387 after reduction enchant. And seducer would bring it down to 4036. So a % reduction of 351 and 554 total reduction. 12% cheaper.

Without the cost enchant you're at 4222. A reduction of 368.

So you've lost 17 reduction, but it's still over 500 magicka cheaper.

With 2 reduce costs you're at 4184 prior to seducer. Then 3849 after the 8% is applied. A % reduction of 335. That's 16% cheaper.

It's less of an impact on lower cost skills, where %reduction wouldn't net as much of a diminished value, making cost reduction enchants scale better.

A 3000 cost spell em with seducer is 2760.
1 reduction goes to 2573. So 427 cheaper overall. About 15% cheaper.
2 reduction would be 2386, so 614 overall. 21% cheaper

scipionumatia

@Brutusmax1mus Im going to be running heavy seducer on my magdk in no cp pvp. since dk in general have high cost skills this will be more effective. character is argonian vampire. so in this case reduce cost is better than regen right?

ChefZero

Especially with agonian, yes. But why vampire?

scipionumatia

vampire for undeath passive, increased stam/mag regen, and the option to use mist form

ChefZero

scipionumatia wrote: »

vampire for undeath passive, increased stam/mag regen, and the option to use mist form

With argonian passive and heavy armor + restro heavy attack you shouldn't have magicka issues. Many people underestimate the ressource gain from HA + restro.

Brutusmax1mus

Like 5.8k over 2.3 seconds.

Cres

I'm a big fan of infused cost reduction on one of my jewelry pieces. I tweak my build constantly (Stam sOrc). I notice the biggest impact if I take off that reduce cost enchant, was trying infused weapon damage in its place, didnt like it.

This question is playstyle dependent, will all depend on you and how you play. Try both, see what happens and what fits you the best.

DeadlyRecluse

It largely depends on what % amps you are using.

A high elf with a bunch of %regen amp passives will get more value out of regen, for example.

Conversely, because % cost reduction amps apply after the glyph, those buffs get less effective the more cost reduction you have on your jewelry...

scipionumatia

@ChefZero i dont use resto, use SnB with destro. also its for no cp so i wont have cp sustain