What is wrong with cloak?

Nyladreas

Constantly breaking for no apparent reasons, I could be 50 feet away from an enemy that's chasing me, cloak breaks.

Dodge -> Cloak, cloak breaks...

Cloak -> Stealth - never hides me...

3x-4x cloak, same story.



And no, it's not my skills breaking it. No, I'm not using the wrong morph. Yes, I'm using Shadowy Disguise.
[edited for profanity bypass]

Yakidafi

Which morph are you using.

chaserstorm16909

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Gilvoth

well, whatever it is causing it is horrible.
zenimax, please fix.

Nyladreas

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Well what the hell is the point of even playing a nightblade anymore. People constantly complain like we're some sort of plague on the community, and i have yet to have fun on my nightblade at least ONCE. Hell it's so hard and frustrating, even if I DO win a fight it never feels like fun, it feels like *** stressful job.

No Damage, Ultra Squishy, Can't even Hide, Playing Heavy is like trying to play hockey with a drinking straw.... Is there any way i can actually enjoy my Main character that I've done every single quest/crafting/exploration etc. on? I sorta wish we had a class change token

Valrien

Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak?

Because I thought Dark Cloak would be OP on my magblade until I realized that morph took away the invisibility.

Valrien

Nyladreas wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Well what the hell is the point of even playing a nightblade anymore. People constantly complain like we're some sort of plague on the community, and i have yet to have fun on my nightblade at least ONCE. Hell it's so hard and frustrating, even if I DO win a fight it never feels like fun, it feels like *** stressful job.

No Damage, Ultra Squishy, Can't even Hide, Playing Heavy is like trying to play hockey with a drinking straw.... Is there any way i can actually enjoy my Main character that I've done every single quest/crafting/exploration etc. on? I sorta wish we had a class change token

This is all 100% a L2P issue because:
-NB has the best DPS, especially in PvP
-NB has pretty good survivability, just not as sturdy as a DK
-Refer to the morph issue in my post above. You might actually just be using the wrong morph
-Use a brawler-type playstyle, rather than a heavy. Hit hard and fast and try not to get hit.

Nyladreas

Valrien wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Well what the hell is the point of even playing a nightblade anymore. People constantly complain like we're some sort of plague on the community, and i have yet to have fun on my nightblade at least ONCE. Hell it's so hard and frustrating, even if I DO win a fight it never feels like fun, it feels like *** stressful job.

No Damage, Ultra Squishy, Can't even Hide, Playing Heavy is like trying to play hockey with a drinking straw.... Is there any way i can actually enjoy my Main character that I've done every single quest/crafting/exploration etc. on? I sorta wish we had a class change token

This is all 100% a L2P issue because:
-NB has the best DPS, especially in PvP
-NB has pretty good survivability, just not as sturdy as a DK
-Refer to the morph issue in my post above. You might actually just be using the wrong morph
-Use a brawler-type playstyle, rather than a heavy. Hit hard and fast and try not to get hit.

Then how do I learn how to play, I'm sick and tired of everyone saying L2P but never providing information on how to do better. And yes I'm using Shadowy Disguise.

Best DPS? Is this a joke? I never kill anyone, any build, medium or heavy. Got tired and farmed spriggan/BP/Selene, haven't killed once. People take like 3k damage from a hit at best and heal up within seconds.

Survivability? I die in 2 hits from literally everything. CC -> BOOM DEAD, ROOT -> BOOM DEAD, Try to dodge? Wonderful, here's some steel tornado, fossilize, ground AoEs, Destro Ult, Soul Assault.

Tried Heavy and TK on a race with recovery bonus, healing almost non-existent.

Vigor ticks me for like 900 without defile, add defile and its worthless despite me having full damage ultra squishy setup.

Cloak? See OP.

......

Is my character just missing something? And I'm a khajiit.

Honestly, I'm at a point where i wanna just write a ticket to ZOS and see whats wrong with me.

I went the extra effort and even got Master'S DW Axes, vMA 2H Axe etc, for a bleed build. Just about the only thing that works If the cloak doesn't break but feels extremely cheap and can only do 1v1 with it.

Snipe with asylum works on the occasion of not being seen or noticed at all, or not hitting a permablocker otherwise it's a deathwish.

@Valrien sorry for my frustration in the post, nothing personal against you I'm just really starting to lose my mind here. Sometimes it feels like everyone around me is hacking and I'm the only *** trying to play the game the way it's meant to be played.

Yakidafi

@Nyladreas you ain't exactly writing the best posts for helping you.

Zer0oo

Every dot you put on your enemy now breaks your own cloak on every damage tick. I have no idea if it is intended or bugged since i lost interest to read those notes with all this bs.

Nyladreas

Yakidafi wrote: »

@Nyladreas you ain't exactly writing the best posts for helping you.

@Yakidafi just ask me what you need to know, I have no idea what to really tell you guys.

I try to use LoS as much as possible too, everyone outruns me.

Lexxypwns

Use speed pots, start with speed+lingering then eventually switch to speed stam immovable. Use cloak to reset dodge roll cooldown and force crit heals, this allows you to reset the fight.

Fear applies a strong snare that will give you just a bit more breathing room.

Remember to focus on first creating space then using cloak. It’s ok to take damage while you roll as long as you start rolling soon enough that not dodging something will kill you. You’re using dodge both as a defensive mechanic and as a way to create space for cloak to work.

I’d also highly recommend starting out playing with troll king, the proc combined with lingering pots will allow you to be much more survivable while you’re mastering the defensive mechanics.

Make sure you’re using shuffle as needed to purge snares and especially after a CC break you want to shuffle while it’s almost free because of Unchained passive. You don’t have the ability to mitigate damage in a traditional manner or to outheal big incoming pressure so your mitigation tool is to simply avoid damage by repositioning. More than any other class Nightblades(at least cloak reliant ones) have to be hyper aware of positioning, if you’re counting on cloak to keep you alive then you need to always be aware of where you’re at relative to all enemies. Shadow Image is fantastic and will work as a get out of jail free card if you have a bar slot for it, can literally drop shade, roll twice, cloak then if your cloak gets countered just return to shade and cloak away

Nyladreas

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Use speed+immovable pots. Use cloak to reset dodge roll cooldown and force crit heals, this allows you to reset the fight.

Fear applies a strong snare that will give you just a bit more breathing room.

Remember to focus on first creating space then using cloak. It’s ok to take damage while you roll as long as you start rolling soon enough that not dodging something will kill you. You’re using dodge both as a defensive mechanic and as a way to create space for cloak to work.

How do I use fear with cloak? I'm always out of magicka just from cloaking cause of how much damage i take from everything. I mean I tried using fear before, it either A.) doesn't hit, or B.) doesn't leave me enough for cloaking

Valrien

"Just ask what you need to know"

I asked what morph of Cloak you're using, no response.

What's your FULL gear setup (traits, enchantments, specific weapon, etc etc)? What skills do you use? What's your CP allotment? Are you even playing with CP or are you exclusively in non-CP and battlegrounds? How do you engage in each fight

There are all very important things. All we know is that you have a L2P issue, we do not know why. It is your job to tell us why.

Specifically for your magicka, most nightblades use full Prismatic glyphs because, while expensive, stamblades use all 3 stats to great effect and need these glyphs more than any other class.

Lexxypwns

Nyladreas wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Use speed+immovable pots. Use cloak to reset dodge roll cooldown and force crit heals, this allows you to reset the fight.

Fear applies a strong snare that will give you just a bit more breathing room.

Remember to focus on first creating space then using cloak. It’s ok to take damage while you roll as long as you start rolling soon enough that not dodging something will kill you. You’re using dodge both as a defensive mechanic and as a way to create space for cloak to work.

How do I use fear with cloak? I'm always out of magicka just from cloaking cause of how much damage i take from everything. I mean I tried using fear before, it either A.) doesn't hit, or B.) doesn't leave me enough for cloaking

Try Shackle+Bone Pirate, that’s how I play my Stamblade when I run medium and I never have magika issues. Your offensive window is long enough to regain almost the full cost of cloak and by using a dodge roll or two to create space as you’re going back defensive you’ll have gotten 4 ticks of mag regen and have more magika than when you started your offense. With Shackle and CP you should sit at around 800+ mag recovery.

I’m able to run Dubious and my sets to cover sustain and add a bit of damage then go full damage on jewelry and Warrior mundus. For Khajit you may need some more sustain though.

Still, use fear sparingly, when there’s a Templar on you spamming jabs or someone spamming tornado you can Shuffle-Dodge cancel fear-dodge cancel vigor-cloak and with major expedition from potions you’ll be able to disengage. Don’t go back onto offense until your dodge roll CD is over or almost over.

Naughty_Ryder

I cannot recall ever having a problem with Cloak myself, although I have witnessed it break for others in a similar fashion.

Lexxypwns

Remember that you’re the predator and it’s your option to engage when you’re ready, with the tools available you can avoid fights until you’re in a position you’re happy with then unload your offense.

I think of learning Stamblade a lot like the old Mag Sorc before streak cost stacking, you want to engage quickly and try to pick off a target then focus on efficient kiting that causes people to expend more resources than you and force themselves out of position. Once you master positioning and knowing when/how to engage then you’ll have a lot more success

Nyladreas

Valrien wrote: »

"Just ask what you need to know"

I asked what morph of Cloak you're using, no response.

What's your FULL gear setup (traits, enchantments, specific weapon, etc etc)? What skills do you use? What's your CP allotment? Are you even playing with CP or are you exclusively in non-CP and battlegrounds? How do you engage in each fight

There are all very important things. All we know is that you have a L2P issue, we do not know why. It is your job to tell us why.

Specifically for your magicka, most nightblades use full Prismatic glyphs because, while expensive, stamblades use all 3 stats to great effect and need these glyphs more than any other class.

Uhm.. I said I use Shadowy Disguise. It's even in the OP on the bottom.

Full gear...

Every Enchant on Every piece is always Prismatic, regardless of what set it is.
Every Jewel Enchant is always Weapon Damage (dont have summerset btw)
DW - I go 1 with infused Weapon Damage, 1 with Nirn Disease
Bow - Infused Weapon Damage.
If it's a 2 hander, Nirn + Alchemy Poison or Disease Enchant on it.

I own just about every engame weapon piece viable for stam... vDSA Axes, vMA 2h Axe and Sword, Asylum 2H Axe and Sword, vDSA Bow.

Current Gear - as stated above I'm trying to do Spriggan/Bone Pirate/Selene right now.

Before I used following setups:
Medium:
1) Shackle, Bone Pirate, Selene - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main
2) Hunding, Bone Pirate, Selene - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main
3) Spriggan, Hunding, Selene - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main
4)All of the above with Troll King instead of Selene
5) Hawk, Marksman, Asylum Bow, Master Bow
6) Spriggan, Night Mother, Master Bow, Asylum Bow
7) Shieldbreaker + Sload + Troll King - DW 1 oblivion enchant, 1 wpn damage enchant, Bow Oblivion Enchant. (obv this is just to get at sorcs)

Heavy:
1) Truth, Bone Pirate, Troll King - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main, tried DW + 2H as well
2) 7th, Bone Pirate, Troll King - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main, tried DW + 2H as well
3) Hunding, Bone Pirate, Troll King - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main, tried DW + 2H as well
4) Shackle, Bone Pirate, Troll King - Master bow backbar, DW or 2H on main, tried DW + 2H as well

Builds I tried out of desperation:
Torug, Green Pact, Troll King - DW/2H, or DW/SnB
Pelinal, Hunding, Molag Kena - DW/2H or DW/Master Bow
Idk if i tried any other weird builds...

CP changes depending on builds I'm using
For short Ironclad, Resistant, (<- up to 56) Hardy, E.Defender (up to 43-49), rest Thick Skin see the most points in Warrior
Mooncalf, Arcanist, Healthy, Befoul, Tumbling (<- all those up to 43) Warlord (up to 56) is what sees most points in Thief
Mighty (43), Master at Arms (56), Physical Expert (43), Piercing (43), Shattering Blows (37), rest is packed into Precise Strikes

Potions: Speed, Stam, Wpn Damage usually used on DW or Immovable Pots with Speed, Tri-Pots if multiple threats.

Most of the time it's just BGs really, I can't find people in Cyro unless its a zerg which is not hard to stay alive with.

Engaging fights also depends on what build i run... if it's ganking I wait for someone to stay a little behind - Inject -> Ambush -> Incap or Surprise Attack depening on HP pool -> Killer's Blade or Executioner.

If it's Heavy build that i run, it's usually charge, fear/drain shot and going ham, dodging as needed, using cripple too to root people in place.

Running away with cloak is always Vigor -> Dodge -> Cloak. Trying to CC before cloaking usually fails miserably, but I'll try if I can.

If I can I use shad behind LoS.

I think I covered it all? Lemme know.

@Valrien

Maryal

Many people use the terms cloak, sneak and stealth interchangeably ... and that makes troubleshooting problems difficult.
Cloak, sneak/stealth are entirely different things and have different mechanics.

Cloak doesn't really 'break' although sneak / stealth does. Here is what I mean by that:
Cloak:
Cloak is on a timer. Each time you cast cloak, it will last roughly 3.75 seconds. With very rare exception, you are the only one that can 'end' your cloak-timer prematurely. Most skills/abilities (if you cast them while cloaked) will cause your cloak- timer to end prematurely, as will consuming a potion, drink, or food item. Also, pushing sprint after you've cloaked will also prematurely end your cloak timer (speedy get-away solution: use a speed pot before you cloak and don't press sprint while cloaked).

Sneak/Stealth:
Sneak/stealth, has no 'timer'; it will last as long as you remain crouched, undetected by others (out of detection range), and out of combat.

Many NBs will cloak in order to get into sneak/stealth mode - this is supposed to work (assuming you are out of combat and out of detection range), but often it will not, especially when there is a lot of lag.

LittlePinkDot

Nyladreas wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Well what the hell is the point of even playing a nightblade anymore. People constantly complain like we're some sort of plague on the community, and i have yet to have fun on my nightblade at least ONCE. Hell it's so hard and frustrating, even if I DO win a fight it never feels like fun, it feels like *** stressful job.

No Damage, Ultra Squishy, Can't even Hide, Playing Heavy is like trying to play hockey with a drinking straw.... Is there any way i can actually enjoy my Main character that I've done every single quest/crafting/exploration etc. on? I sorta wish we had a class change token

This is all 100% a L2P issue because:
-NB has the best DPS, especially in PvP
-NB has pretty good survivability, just not as sturdy as a DK
-Refer to the morph issue in my post above. You might actually just be using the wrong morph
-Use a brawler-type playstyle, rather than a heavy. Hit hard and fast and try not to get hit.

Then how do I learn how to play, I'm sick and tired of everyone saying L2P but never providing information on how to do better. And yes I'm using Shadowy Disguise.

Best DPS? Is this a joke? I never kill anyone, any build, medium or heavy. Got tired and farmed spriggan/BP/Selene, haven't killed once. People take like 3k damage from a hit at best and heal up within seconds.

Survivability? I die in 2 hits from literally everything. CC -> BOOM DEAD, ROOT -> BOOM DEAD, Try to dodge? Wonderful, here's some steel tornado, fossilize, ground AoEs, Destro Ult, Soul Assault.

Tried Heavy and TK on a race with recovery bonus, healing almost non-existent.

Vigor ticks me for like 900 without defile, add defile and its worthless despite me having full damage ultra squishy setup.

Cloak? See OP.

......

Is my character just missing something? And I'm a khajiit.

Honestly, I'm at a point where i wanna just write a ticket to ZOS and see whats wrong with me.

I went the extra effort and even got Master'S DW Axes, vMA 2H Axe etc, for a bleed build. Just about the only thing that works If the cloak doesn't break but feels extremely cheap and can only do 1v1 with it.

Snipe with asylum works on the occasion of not being seen or noticed at all, or not hitting a permablocker otherwise it's a deathwish.

@Valrien sorry for my frustration in the post, nothing personal against you I'm just really starting to lose my mind here. Sometimes it feels like everyone around me is hacking and I'm the only *** trying to play the game the way it's meant to be played.

Wow. Sounds like you are having more trouble than me. Are your weapons gold quality? Its the mats I struggle to find.
I switched to alcasts bowgank build because rosin is the easiest gold mat to get.
And you should use focused aim, not lethal arrow.
I find I can snipe people from far away with crit from cloak and kill them as long as theyre not tanks. But I dont think theres any 1 build that can defeat all other builds anyway.
I think its a good idea to have more than 1 character. Im making a stamwarden for my second pvp caracter. She will be tanky and able to fight toe to toe. Having 2 very different characters to choose from makes pvp more fun.
....if I only had those master axes though... I would be making an orc stamsorc.

geonsocal

Nyladreas wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

As a magblade main since launch, I can honestly say cloak has always been very unpredictable. Whether it gets broken by dots (recently sloads) or for no reason at all, it's something we nightblades have been complaining about forever. If you are hoping for a fix, don't hold your breath. If they could fix it, they would have already.

And one other thing to consider: Your cloak may be getting broken by detect pots. I use these myself to kill nightblades who cloak or use stealth. I have been doing it for a long time and I have to say these pots are REALLY op. lol.

Well what the hell is the point of even playing a nightblade anymore. People constantly complain like we're some sort of plague on the community, and i have yet to have fun on my nightblade at least ONCE. Hell it's so hard and frustrating, even if I DO win a fight it never feels like fun, it feels like *** stressful job.

No Damage, Ultra Squishy, Can't even Hide, Playing Heavy is like trying to play hockey with a drinking straw.... Is there any way i can actually enjoy my Main character that I've done every single quest/crafting/exploration etc. on? I sorta wish we had a class change token

This is all 100% a L2P issue because:
-NB has the best DPS, especially in PvP
-NB has pretty good survivability, just not as sturdy as a DK
-Refer to the morph issue in my post above. You might actually just be using the wrong morph
-Use a brawler-type playstyle, rather than a heavy. Hit hard and fast and try not to get hit.

Then how do I learn how to play, I'm sick and tired of everyone saying L2P but never providing information on how to do better. And yes I'm using Shadowy Disguise.

Best DPS? Is this a joke? I never kill anyone, any build, medium or heavy. Got tired and farmed spriggan/BP/Selene, haven't killed once. People take like 3k damage from a hit at best and heal up within seconds.

Survivability? I die in 2 hits from literally everything. CC -> BOOM DEAD, ROOT -> BOOM DEAD, Try to dodge? Wonderful, here's some steel tornado, fossilize, ground AoEs, Destro Ult, Soul Assault.

Tried Heavy and TK on a race with recovery bonus, healing almost non-existent.

Vigor ticks me for like 900 without defile, add defile and its worthless despite me having full damage ultra squishy setup.

Cloak? See OP.

......

Is my character just missing something? And I'm a khajiit.

Honestly, I'm at a point where i wanna just write a ticket to ZOS and see whats wrong with me.

I went the extra effort and even got Master'S DW Axes, vMA 2H Axe etc, for a bleed build. Just about the only thing that works If the cloak doesn't break but feels extremely cheap and can only do 1v1 with it.

Snipe with asylum works on the occasion of not being seen or noticed at all, or not hitting a permablocker otherwise it's a deathwish.

@Valrien sorry for my frustration in the post, nothing personal against you I'm just really starting to lose my mind here. Sometimes it feels like everyone around me is hacking and I'm the only *** trying to play the game the way it's meant to be played.

patience young padawan...choosing your targets/fights is almost as important as your gear and rotations...

where you position yourself in combat is critical/super super important...

templesus

Thank God. Personally I think the ability should be removed from the game.

Jhalin

templesus wrote: »

Thank God. Personally I think the ability should be removed from the game.

Personally we’re all aware you should git gud and use one of the many cloak counters available to you

chaserstorm16909

Maryal wrote: »

Many people use the terms cloak, sneak and stealth interchangeably ... and that makes troubleshooting problems difficult.
Cloak, sneak/stealth are entirely different things and have different mechanics.

Cloak doesn't really 'break' although sneak / stealth does. Here is what I mean by that:
Cloak:
Cloak is on a timer. Each time you cast cloak, it will last roughly 3.75 seconds. With very rare exception, you are the only one that can 'end' your cloak-timer prematurely. Most skills/abilities (if you cast them while cloaked) will cause your cloak- timer to end prematurely, as will consuming a potion, drink, or food item. Also, pushing sprint after you've cloaked will also prematurely end your cloak timer (speedy get-away solution: use a speed pot before you cloak and don't press sprint while cloaked).

Sneak/Stealth:
Sneak/stealth, has no 'timer'; it will last as long as you remain crouched, undetected by others (out of detection range), and out of combat.

Many NBs will cloak in order to get into sneak/stealth mode - this is supposed to work (assuming you are out of combat and out of detection range), but often it will not, especially when there is a lot of lag.

I assure you "cloak" breaks unexpectedly a lot for no reason.