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Should O-ticks be given the D-tick treatment?
NBrookus
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I love the change to d ticks that require you to participate to get a portion of the tick. And while it can be cheesed, people who ride up late and didn't participate get nothing. No more people AFK inside the keep leeching ticks!
I feel that o ticks be changed to the same requirement to:
Thoughts?
I feel that o ticks be changed to the same requirement to:
- improve the tick for people who actually participated
- decrease the numbers in resource-flip zergs
- encourage people to spread out and go to a different objective rather than rush to grab an o tick
Thoughts?
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm a big fan of ticks right now--participating in defenses feels pretty rewarding, especially outnumbered on high level resources, but taking a stuff doesn't feel like a tedious chore (well, it still does, but you get a nice little reward).
I mention that to say: I think improvements can always be made, and looking at the credit list system and "sticky" ticks as applies to O ticks isn't a bad idea, but I'm wary of large changes. At the moment, I like the ticks I get attacking AND defending, and that hasn't always been the case (looking at you, old 100 AP Oticks, and looking at you, unbuffed Dticks right after the massive Otick buffs).Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love the change to d ticks that require you to participate to get a portion of the tick. And while it can be cheesed, people who ride up late and didn't participate get nothing. No more people AFK inside the keep leeching ticks!
I feel that o ticks be changed to the same requirement to:- improve the tick for people who actually participated
- decrease the numbers in resource-flip zergs
- encourage people to spread out and go to a different objective rather than rush to grab an o tick
Thoughts?
I think yourself and @ZOS_BrianWheeler have been sharing the same skooma pipe...
seriously wtf...yes, there are some amazing players out there whom can simply poop AP at will...by and large, the vast majority of us are out there grinding our butts off for it...
mostly riding our mounts like fiends across the whole landscape and pvdooring...not fun...
so what i'm on top of sejanus hanging out for an hour or so while i'm doing laundry, eating dinner, taking a crap - is it really such a crime to have an extra couple of thousand AP come my way with minimal effort...it's not like there's normally such a huge demand to play in cyrodiil...
give us back healthy d-ticks...support different playstyles that don't involve copious amounts of caffeine and saddle sores...
and most importantly - ZOS - stop being so stingy with the AP...
Edited by geonsocal on August 20, 2018 6:45PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place3 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure. And I want to level Undaunted by going AFK at the Enclave.
fair enough...i don't live in dungeons though...i wish the starter areas had housing, writ boards and guild trader access...
unfortunately - if anything - pop caps will probably continue to decrease, making that thought even more impractical...DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
you are correct...however - like sweet honey to bees - AP earnings help draw the crowd in...as is right now - much easier for a "casual" player (very much like myself) to earn AP in battlegrounds...forget imperial city - that's like a freaking AP wasteland...
the recent d-tick scoring change was stingy though...plus, it strongly promotes a specific playstyle: hit it and quit it, and, then let the other alliance get with it...
man, i don't want to be stuck beating my mount to death trying to ride all over the map knocking down enemy doors and walls with no one inside...while, the other alliances are doing the same exact thing...
i understand what you both are saying (in a scrooge sort of way - it makes sense) - i'm not saying my arguments are the most rationale...i know how i feel about it though...
i want more folks to come to cyrodiil for the easy AP...*** battlegrounds (i actually found out during the recent event i did kind of like deathmatch - a lot
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i just want more people to want to play in cyrodiil and reward folks for defending keeps...Edited by geonsocal on August 20, 2018 7:09PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s a tough thing to pick a side on. For one thing there’s a lot of pvdoor heroes out there that have gotten fairly high alliance ranks that still stand in siege and never figured out the basics of combat versus actual players. I see a lot of this type on AD in Sotha (pc NA).
On the other hand though the pvp in this game is already pretty punishing for PVEers and new PVPers trying to learn the ropes so being able to get some easy AP early on and get their feet wet by following around other groups is probably a good thing too.
So I’m pretty torn on this topic. I’m happy with the dtick change so that may be good enough for right now.- PC/NA
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think both D and O ticks would be better if they rewarded your faction more for winning fights rather than wiping repeatedly but still holding a keep. More focus should be placed on enemy deaths at the location rather than your own factions.
Additionally It would be better if taking a 'harder' keep would reward more points now that keeps can be defended and responded to.
As for the 'leaching at a keep' I feel it happens less often and such a change would potentially punish those who are preventing reinforcements from reaching the keep and make it back into range in time for the flip.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The big difference between an Otick and Dtick if they worked the same as the Dticks is the Otick happens once the flags are flipped. You cannot join the fight late ever or you get nothing. At least with a dtick there is a chance to fight players outside the keep or repair a wall and still get the tick if you rode for 5 minutes. If they made a change like that to Oticks no one would ever even attempt to come help a siege that needed more men for fear that they get there late and the keep flips before they can do any action. It would lead to a lot of riding around make zero ap.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Now what they should do, considering they are now punishing defenders for being unable to hold an open flag on a resource against a zerg, is make it so attackers cannot flip a keeps flags unless they hold all 3 resources.2 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭
I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I remember waiting to be sure I got my 25AP at a resource. I know how AP hungry new players are and nothing I suggested is intended to punish them. But riding 5 minutes to get a tick is part of the problem, and we've all done it. No one has a good time when a keep is faction stacked and no one can bar swap and skills functioning are a wistful memory. By giving everyone all of the base tick, we are rewarding behavior that makes the game performance worse. You don't even need to be at the same fight, the lag spreads across the whole map.
AP is the only in-game carrot we have to chase, so changing the way AP is rewarded should change player behavior.
I originally thought of 4 changes; and thought is might be better to discuss one at a time, but perhaps it is better if I expand what I am thinking. But Izanerys has touched on some of the other issues, so here goes:
1) O-ticks should require participation: that you damage, heal or take damage during that time period. No rolling up to leech the base tick.
2) Wall/door repair should not count. No racing up after a successful defense and finding a postern needing one repair kit. Yes, people repairing during a siege is sometimes important, but I feel it's unlikely those people won't do *some* other damage or healing during that time.
3) Base o-ticks need to be reduced based on the number of attackers versus defenders. #1 should help prevent late comers who did not participate from diminishing the reward unfairly. Example: if it's a 20v20 fight, giving everyone the base o tick is fine. If it's 20v1, the attackers should not be rewarded with the same AP for pvdoor.
4) If owning resources are going to contribute to the d tick, the tick range of keeps needs to be extended to include those, so players defending those resources during the fight are rewarded for their contribution.
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭No no. Let me get your o ticks plz!
Edited by IZZEFlameLash on August 21, 2018 4:04AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think O-Ticks should be weighted. The Emp ring should give less AP whereas the outer keeps such as Brindle, Drake and Dragonclaw should give more. The +8% AP buff for the outer keeps was a good first step in that direction.
This would help with a) rewarding the long ride and b) having less players zerg the Emp ring.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's nice that there's incentive for defending resources, but there's very little incentive for capturing resources prior to flipping a keep.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
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I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
If you are only defending in large fights, sure, that's true (though usually you can make enough kill-AP to make the lack up for it), but it's relatively easy to farm up 12-25k solo or duo D ticks. I'm a pretty mediocre player and can occasionally string up an 80k tick solo defending a keep. I doubt anyone is capturing 53 resources in the time it takes to defend a keep against a handful of attackers.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
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Is that after Wolfhunter, Deadly? I got those huge D-ticks pretty commonly in Summerset, but after Wolfhunter the same scale of fight is getting me significantly less AP.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
If you are only defending in large fights, sure, that's true (though usually you can make enough kill-AP to make the lack up for it), but it's relatively easy to farm up 12-25k solo or duo D ticks. I'm a pretty mediocre player and can occasionally string up an 80k tick solo defending a keep. I doubt anyone is capturing 53 resources in the time it takes to defend a keep against a handful of attackers.
Or maybe the secret to getting good D-ticks is to wear full Divines...
7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.1 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
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Is that after Wolfhunter, Deadly? I got those huge D-ticks pretty commonly in Summerset, but after Wolfhunter the same scale of fight is getting me significantly less AP.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
If you are only defending in large fights, sure, that's true (though usually you can make enough kill-AP to make the lack up for it), but it's relatively easy to farm up 12-25k solo or duo D ticks. I'm a pretty mediocre player and can occasionally string up an 80k tick solo defending a keep. I doubt anyone is capturing 53 resources in the time it takes to defend a keep against a handful of attackers.
Or maybe the secret to getting good D-ticks is to wear full Divines...
I *think* the biggest solo tick I've gotten post-wolfhunter is 12k (actually off of that resource you killed me on--so that was off of 4 dead blues and then my own death), but I haven't had a really solid solo defense this patch compared to summerset. Someone on a stamden or NB that can actually sustain a nice solo farm could probably bring in much better numbers.
The absurdly huge ones, where you'd get 20k off of like 2 kills, yeah those seem to be a thing of the past--but Dticks are definitely still relevant--i.e. the 15 minutes I was on that resource I got as much AP as flipping 9ish resources in less time (not counting the roughly 8k kill AP, either).
EDIT: My point, though, is that people might downplay the value of Dticks if they are just getting the little 1-2k ticks you get from defending frontline keeps alongside your faction (in the case of routine, relatively short sieges).Edited by DeadlyRecluse on August 21, 2018 3:23PMThrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I think both D and O ticks would be better if they rewarded your faction more for winning fights rather than wiping repeatedly but still holding a keep. More focus should be placed on enemy deaths at the location rather than your own factions.
Additionally It would be better if taking a 'harder' keep would reward more points now that keeps can be defended and responded to.
As for the 'leaching at a keep' I feel it happens less often and such a change would potentially punish those who are preventing reinforcements from reaching the keep and make it back into range in time for the flip.
Well, that concept is already there and known by the name "battlegrounds". The objective in Cyrodiil is different for a good reason and it is not to survive, but for keeps to be defended. If you want to have purely PvP, then you know where to go...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
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Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
RedGirl41✭✭✭✭AP gains are insanely high right now. its caused people to run in massive zergs balls from keep to keep, avoiding all combat to get to the next O tick. I'm 100% for a nerf in free ap gains. nobody wants to fight unless they get to the next flagged keep and they have 24 people with them....kinda made ranks a joke a year ago
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
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Is that after Wolfhunter, Deadly? I got those huge D-ticks pretty commonly in Summerset, but after Wolfhunter the same scale of fight is getting me significantly less AP.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
If you are only defending in large fights, sure, that's true (though usually you can make enough kill-AP to make the lack up for it), but it's relatively easy to farm up 12-25k solo or duo D ticks. I'm a pretty mediocre player and can occasionally string up an 80k tick solo defending a keep. I doubt anyone is capturing 53 resources in the time it takes to defend a keep against a handful of attackers.
Or maybe the secret to getting good D-ticks is to wear full Divines...
@casparian
I was able to get some better ticks rolling today...
It's still definitely more efficient to farm Dticks if you pull weight AND get lucky with the right types of players responding.
I was able to run up 10k AP in kill AP PLUS a 10k tick in about a 30 second fight--that's WAY more efficient than farming Oticks--even if you wait on the flag for the tick, 20k AP in 2 minutes and 30 seconds...
I intentionally only farmed solo Dticks for an hour, and made 120k in an hour--and I'm really a pretty average player, as you well know. I did, admittedly, get lucky and was able to "win" 5-6 outnumbered defenses in a row.
It is definitely way more consistent to just push for Oticks, and it's definitely a better option for inexperienced players to coast for the guaranteed AP, but I'd be willing to bet that competent groups AND solo players will get the best AP getting solid Dticks while also pushing for Oticks between defenses....and that seems like a good balance in terms of AP gain.
One thing I will say--level 1 resources aren't really worth defending and could use a buff, even if it's just a 10%-20% AP buff. Level 2s deliver pretty well if you are actually outnumbered/solo.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭I think that O or D ticks should be earned based on the individual's contribution within the zone of influence of the keep and its resources. By simply repairing the wall once should not earn the right to an equal share of the D tick for example.
The current system that does not require players to be within range to get the tick is a positive step forward. However more effort and careful consideration needs to be given to the distribution of the AP based on merit.Edited by Sacredx on August 23, 2018 9:40AMPC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
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Is that after Wolfhunter, Deadly? I got those huge D-ticks pretty commonly in Summerset, but after Wolfhunter the same scale of fight is getting me significantly less AP.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
I’ve only played for about 4-5 months but tbh i don’t really care about defending anymore..the dtiks are so insignificant i could have taken resources elsewhere and got more AP with less time needed.. I’ll still defend because i enjoy it but sometimes i just log and watch tv, something I’ve never done beforeDeadlyRecluse wrote: »
If you are only defending in large fights, sure, that's true (though usually you can make enough kill-AP to make the lack up for it), but it's relatively easy to farm up 12-25k solo or duo D ticks. I'm a pretty mediocre player and can occasionally string up an 80k tick solo defending a keep. I doubt anyone is capturing 53 resources in the time it takes to defend a keep against a handful of attackers.
Or maybe the secret to getting good D-ticks is to wear full Divines...
I"m seeing pretty small defense ticks after Wolfhunter. Mostly 10-20k instead of 20-40k. Fights feel the same.
2 months ago a defense with 33 kills (3 killing blows), got me 9741 ap from kills and 55381 for defensive tick.
Last night, 15 minute defense, 23 kills (13 killing blows) got me 11989 AP for kills and a 3178 defensive tick.
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phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've had quite a few occasions when no AP was rewarded for capturing resources. Helped kill off the guards and enemy players in the process. Other times I've had AP rewarded when turning up at the resource just as it flipped. Obviously something is broken. This is over the last two months. Last time this happened was the weekend just gone.
Just happened again. Helped capture Aleswell mine. Killed guards & enemy players. No AP rewarded.Edited by phairdon on August 27, 2018 10:08PMYour immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭I've had quite a few occasions when no AP was rewarded for capturing resources. Helped kill off the guards and enemy players in the process. Other times I've had AP rewarded when turning up at the resource just as it flipped. Obviously something is broken. This is over the last two months. Last time this happened was the weekend just gone.
Just happened again. Helped capture Aleswell mine. Killed guards & enemy players. No AP rewarded.
There is timer of I think 5 minutes to stop people flipping back and forth for AP. If you cap within 5 mins you get no AP.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0
