Snipe Exploit (NOT a health desync)

DDuke

ZOS, this needs to be fixed. Like yesterday.



As can be seen from the combat log, this person (yes, they are from same person - name blurred to avoid naming & shaming) landed 3 Focused Aims within 1,376 seconds.

That is three skills with a 1,1s cast time.



Needless to say, that shouldn't be possible and it is exploits like these (and the losers that abuse them) that give legitimate bow users a bad rap.

crazy_catman21

In b4 ppl comment saying “dodge roll” & “you can hear them go off”

brandonv516

It's just plain stupid. I've never seen any other skill do what it does when it "desyncs health" or so defenders claim. 100% health then 0% in no time with no way to defend yourself.

One of the many reasons I try to avoid Cyrodiil. Happens consistently when I step in there. Not so much in BGs thank God.

olsborg

Ive seen this cheat first hand too. Confirmed by me.

Thogard

I’m still really curious about the mechanism behind it. I know that cloak can cause desyncs but I am wondering if that’s the root cause here. I haven’t been able to reproduce this.

Has anyone gotten a snipe desync like this from someone other than a stamblade?

_Ahala_

It’s funny when you have someone who is really good at this exploit because they can take you and your friend in a matter of seconds with no warning and no counterplay right after an amazing 2vX... record is a full recap of snipes from people like this in the same GCD... and it’s always the same people who pull this off time and time again... I love archers... heck I played a warden archer for 2 patches but I just wish this one shot by exploits playstyle would just stop already so real archers would stop getting hate

Beardimus

Now this is a campaign I can get on board with.

CatchMeTrolling

This exploit has been around for the longest but it seems zos hasn’t done anything to combat it.

Marcus684

This is still happening? The one guy I knew that was for sure exploiting this switched to his magNB EOTS cheese build so I figured it had been fixed. Sad.

idk

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

DDuke

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

We also know that there's still plenty of ways to exploit in the game. This for example, from a few days ago: https://youtu.be/_QTQKXwxQ6k


I've seen actual desyncs before and those have one thing in common: combat log shows you the damage you take even when it isn't visually represented. It's how I've personally avoided dying to snipe desync (along with paying attention to debuffs appearing on my screen and sound cues).

This for example is a desync: https://youtu.be/CQVaYYdH0y8 - a separate bug/glitch with the skill.

What happened to me was actually 3 snipes landing within 1,376 seconds (now I wish I had recorded that).

Bergzorn

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

Sureshawt

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

I think what he is saying is that this is a server syncing issue. The server still forced the player to take at least 3+ secs to get the 3 shots off but due to lag/synch issues the client addon recorded them all landing in less then 2 seconds.

However, while it does suck that this kind of thing can happen with a long range devastating attack like Lethal Arrow it is not an exploit. It's just a regular occurring feature during poor server and/or Internet performance.

technohic

DDuke wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

We also know that there's still plenty of ways to exploit in the game. This for example, from a few days ago: https://youtu.be/_QTQKXwxQ6k


I've seen actual desyncs before and those have one thing in common: combat log shows you the damage you take even when it isn't visually represented. It's how I've personally avoided dying to snipe desync (along with paying attention to debuffs appearing on my screen and sound cues).

This for example is a desync: https://youtu.be/CQVaYYdH0y8 - a separate bug/glitch with the skill.

What happened to me was actually 3 snipes landing within 1,376 seconds (now I wish I had recorded that).

The 2nd one, the target is sitting there at under 18k health and I can hear the fft, fft, fft where I could buy lag but I do think that its so easy to blame lag and desyncs that it would be easy for someone to get away with intentionally exploiting.

A couple of weeks ago, I was on my stamplar and kept jabbing away at a low health NB that was trying to cloak away and when not cloaking, you could see them trying to heal. They suddenly turned and I dropped dead from full health and had 6 different attacks from them. Could have been lag, or maybe it was something else? Who knows anymore?

CatchMeTrolling

Sureshawt wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

I think what he is saying is that this is a server syncing issue. The server still forced the player to take at least 3+ secs to get the 3 shots off but due to lag/synch issues the client addon recorded them all landing in less then 2 seconds.

However, while it does suck that this kind of thing can happen with a long range devastating attack like Lethal Arrow it is not an exploit. It's just a regular occurring feature during poor server and/or Internet performance.

No, there’s an actual exploit for lethal arrow. Came across plenty of people that know how to do it, thought at this point it was common knowledge.

JobooAGS

I wish we can see this from the exploiters perspective...

Sureshawt

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

I think what he is saying is that this is a server syncing issue. The server still forced the player to take at least 3+ secs to get the 3 shots off but due to lag/synch issues the client addon recorded them all landing in less then 2 seconds.

However, while it does suck that this kind of thing can happen with a long range devastating attack like Lethal Arrow it is not an exploit. It's just a regular occurring feature during poor server and/or Internet performance.

No, there’s an actual exploit for lethal arrow. Came across plenty of people that know how to do it, thought at this point it was common knowledge.

Hmmmmmm.....I wonder how you could even distinguish between lag and exploit assuming this exploit does exist. If this exploit exists then is it possible to exploit all cast time skills like Wrecking Blow, etc?

Not trying to bust your balls but your evidence of 'come across plenty of people that know how do it ....' is not very compelling

The_Protagonist

We need more data, for clarity DDuke has given one example, who else has experienced this?

I have been playing bow for the longest time and I am still unaware of how this exploit works. Now DDuke has time stamps of when he got damaged by the skill and not when it was casted.

What I know is that when I start spamming lethal arrow, it feels faster, but looking at the time stamps in chat, it's always over 1.1 sec.

This has to be recreated and tested and if an exploit is found then it needs to addressed, otherwise it will always be due to lag.

DDuke

Sureshawt wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

I think what he is saying is that this is a server syncing issue. The server still forced the player to take at least 3+ secs to get the 3 shots off but due to lag/synch issues the client addon recorded them all landing in less then 2 seconds.

However, while it does suck that this kind of thing can happen with a long range devastating attack like Lethal Arrow it is not an exploit. It's just a regular occurring feature during poor server and/or Internet performance.

No, there’s an actual exploit for lethal arrow. Came across plenty of people that know how to do it, thought at this point it was common knowledge.

Hmmmmmm.....I wonder how you could even distinguish between lag and exploit assuming this exploit does exist. If this exploit exists then is it possible to exploit all cast time skills like Wrecking Blow, etc?

No trying to bust your balls but your evidence of 'come across plenty of people that know how do it ....' is not very compelling

A lag desync is still reflected on the combat log (as well as your debuffs if you pay attention to them). Even if the animations/sounds aren't played.

That is to say, something like this you'd see the snipes land on proper 1s intervals on your combat log.

Thogard

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

The caster still has to deal with 1s apart snipes. They basically queue them up and it takes them a while to do so... the server registers them as being 1s apart.

The “exploit” is the prevention of the target’s client from knowing that it’s taking damage until 3-4 snipes have already registered server side.

JobooAGS

Thogard wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

The caster still has to deal with 1s apart snipes. They basically queue them up and it takes them a while to do so... the server registers them as being 1s apart.

The “exploit” is the prevention of the target’s client from knowing that it’s taking damage until 3-4 snipes have already registered server side.

So a server issue?

Sureshawt

DDuke wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That information likely comes from your client. Not the sever. That’s where the total time is not accurate.

Each skill has a minimum of 1 second before another skill can start. We know that.

And this is exactly why it's an exploit - if players can somehow do it repeatedly.

I think what he is saying is that this is a server syncing issue. The server still forced the player to take at least 3+ secs to get the 3 shots off but due to lag/synch issues the client addon recorded them all landing in less then 2 seconds.

However, while it does suck that this kind of thing can happen with a long range devastating attack like Lethal Arrow it is not an exploit. It's just a regular occurring feature during poor server and/or Internet performance.

No, there’s an actual exploit for lethal arrow. Came across plenty of people that know how to do it, thought at this point it was common knowledge.

Hmmmmmm.....I wonder how you could even distinguish between lag and exploit assuming this exploit does exist. If this exploit exists then is it possible to exploit all cast time skills like Wrecking Blow, etc?

No trying to bust your balls but your evidence of 'come across plenty of people that know how do it ....' is not very compelling

A lag desync is still reflected on the combat log (as well as your debuffs if you pay attention to them). Even if the animations/sounds aren't played.

That is to say, something like this you'd see the snipes land on proper 1s intervals on your combat log.

I will believe you if you show me a combat log from the caster of Snipe that does not show the proper 1s intervals. So far all I have seen are combat logs from the targets which are unreliable in regards to this issue.

Lag/server sync issues do not always occur so it possible to get target combat logs that show proper 1 sec intervals. The caster log should always have 1 sec intervals ...always. Show me caster combat log of Snipe under 1 sec intervals and then you have evidence.

Waffennacht

On Xbox, all you gotta do to reproduce it is

Keep pressing snipe.

Would LOVE one of the devs that come out to say how wrong you are about twitch crates to post about this

@ZOS_GinaBruno is so damn quick to point out how wrong we are on those, maybe after years of this we can finally get a response??

Jjitsuboy98

I have a video clip saved where this happened to me the other night. It was basically just me taking a resource and boom heart attack. I thought it was some weird lag thing even tho no lag was happening. glad to see someone else has had it happen to maybe they can fix it

Waffennacht

Thing is, had it happen last night

Knew exactly where the sniper was

Snuck up on him and observed, he was just spamming snipe

I'm fairly sure I do it to people when I spam snipe too: there's no way someone is gonna just take those and not react

technohic

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thing is, had it happen last night

Knew exactly where the sniper was

Snuck up on him and observed, he was just spamming snipe

I'm fairly sure I do it to people when I spam snipe too: there's no way someone is gonna just take those and not react

LOL I have snipe on a couple of builds and generally just use it as an opener and to apply defile (no longer that appealing for 4 seconds) but I have sat there and thought about this very thing while at a breech and decided to just start spamming snipe to see if someone just suddenly dies. Results are inconclusive as I just cant see one person most of the time in those situations with a lot of players moving around.

Sureshawt

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thing is, had it happen last night

Knew exactly where the sniper was

Snuck up on him and observed, he was just spamming snipe

I'm fairly sure I do it to people when I spam snipe too: there's no way someone is gonna just take those and not react

How can you react when due to lag/server sync issues you do not know you under attack from snipe spam until they all seem to land at the same time according the perspective of the target. Hell I've experienced it myself plenty of times but I chalked it up to what I believe it is which are lag/sync issues.

Similar thing happens when trying to perform CC break but in reverse. I'm desperately performing CC break but server is bottle-necked or my Internet path to server is experiencing unusually high latency.

The Internet is not magic and all users experience some packet latency issues at times.

The best server architected cores can experience bottlenecks during an unusually high deluge of data which means some players get queued for processing of their packets.

Its just the nature of the Internet and MMOs where bandwidth (what ISPs market as speed) means little but packet latency (the time it takes for data packets to be processed by the server as well as the round trip travel time from your client to ZoS server and back again) for real time interaction means almost everything (well almost - fps/video performance is an important factor as well). Better bandwidth makes downloading those masssive patches faster tho

React

Thogard wrote: »

I’m still really curious about the mechanism behind it. I know that cloak can cause desyncs but I am wondering if that’s the root cause here. I haven’t been able to reproduce this.

Has anyone gotten a snipe desync like this from someone other than a stamblade?

Wouldn't surprise me if the more severe snipe stacks are related to cloak. 9/10 times it IS a nightblade, but I've recently died to 3x snipe + a poison injection from a warden, all landing simultaneously while I was fighting a guard. The interesting thing is, on console at least, the second the first snipe SHOULD have landed, your debuff tracker updates with the major defile and poisoned status affect icons. In this scenario, you can tell that you're going to be desynced with near 100% accuracy, and often times a dodge roll at the time of the debuff tracker updating will avoid the 3rd, 4th, or 5th abilities to hit you (i.e snipes, light/heavy attacks, poison injections, etc.). Another strange thing is that poison injection from stealth cannot produce the same desync, but when weaved in between snipes during a "snipe stack", it becomes delayed and registers at the same time as the snipes.

Waffennacht

Was supposed to save draft....

Juhasow

Actually it's still possible to have combat log like this without lags or exploits.

Sureshawt

Juhasow wrote: »

Actually it's still possible to have combat log like this without lags or exploits.

Really? Like what ... the add-on used for the combat log out of date or faulty? Curious minds want to know