Which role do you feel should use Engulfing Flames for group?

Tasear

Why do you think it belongs to x role(s)

Starlock

Whoever is a dk and close enough to the mobs to be using it consistently (if they want to use it at all). In other words, a melee focused dk who wants to slot it. When I run dungeons on my melee magicka dk, it is one of the first skills I unslot (it gets replaced with a taunt, as I que as a tank). It's a fun gimmick skill, but very meh. I guess I see how it would appeal to min-max trial groups, but outside of that... meh.

Zacuel

I appreciate it when I see a tank using it but I wouldn't expect anyone else to slot for me.

LiquidPony

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

Tasear

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

Hmm, what about all buffs say in summerset and wolf Hunter for Magdk?

Xvorg

Engulfing? Unless you are runnig with flame based builds, it has little to no space. There are much better options for debuff, like concussion

kojou

Tasear wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

Hmm, what about all buffs say in summerset and wolf Hunter for Magdk?

I run both a Mag dk and Stamplar this patch. Stamplar is just easier to get higher dps numbers.

Magicka DK isn't bad DPS, but if the tank can do the engulfing flames and you can run 4 stam dps that get better numbers why wouldn't you?

Nifty2g

Tasear wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

Hmm, what about all buffs say in summerset and wolf Hunter for Magdk?

They’re not wanted in high end raids, not good enough dps

JinMori

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

Nifty2g

JinMori wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

It’s the weakest, not even by player standards, the passsives are weaker and it gives the weakest dps output, it also can’t sustain.
It can no way out perform stamina dps

kojou

Nifty2g wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

It’s the weakest, not even by player standards, the passsives are weaker and it gives the weakest dps output, it also can’t sustain.
It can no way out perform stamina dps

Its the weaker than stamina, but (Magicka) Warden and Templar are going to be weakest overall.

John_Falstaff

@kojou , the caveat is, even magicka DK is still melee. So it's competing with stamina for the place under the sun. And if stamina hits harder, then, when choosing among melee, what's the point choosing magicka DK?

JinMori

Nifty2g wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

It’s the weakest, not even by player standards, the passsives are weaker and it gives the weakest dps output, it also can’t sustain.
It can no way out perform stamina dps

Sorry what? I got 60 k dps + on mag dk, templar, sorc and warden are weaker in pve, which is all classes but nb. and even in normal dummy parses it's still one of the best overall, got 50 k solo.

I'm pretty sure that you are objectively wrong here, from a purely dps prospective, mag dk is strong af, and it has pretty decent sustain especially with the recent changes.

LiquidPony

JinMori wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

It’s the weakest, not even by player standards, the passsives are weaker and it gives the weakest dps output, it also can’t sustain.
It can no way out perform stamina dps

Sorry what? I got 60 k dps + on mag dk, templar, sorc and warden are weaker in pve, which is all classes but nb. and even in normal dummy parses it's still one of the best overall, got 50 k solo.

I'm pretty sure that you are objectively wrong here, from a purely dps prospective, mag dk is strong af, and it has pretty decent sustain especially with the recent changes.

Huh wut.

I've seen 70k+ stamplar and stamsorc parses. NBs hitting 80k and up. That 60k+ magDK parse is like 25k less than top stamblades can hit.

Go take a look at the leaderboards and tell me how many magDKs you see in top raid groups (hint: there aren't any).

Meta group comp is 1 stamplar, 1 magsorc, 6 Nightblades. Or even 7 or 8 Nightblades if you run a sorc healer and have your Templar healer run PotL. Melee Magicka DPS hasn't been a thing since about Homestead.

JinMori

LiquidPony wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

mag dk dps is insane, it;'s one of the best although melee

It’s the weakest, not even by player standards, the passsives are weaker and it gives the weakest dps output, it also can’t sustain.
It can no way out perform stamina dps

Sorry what? I got 60 k dps + on mag dk, templar, sorc and warden are weaker in pve, which is all classes but nb. and even in normal dummy parses it's still one of the best overall, got 50 k solo.

I'm pretty sure that you are objectively wrong here, from a purely dps prospective, mag dk is strong af, and it has pretty decent sustain especially with the recent changes.

Huh wut.

I've seen 70k+ stamplar and stamsorc parses. NBs hitting 80k and up. That 60k+ magDK parse is like 25k less than top stamblades can hit.

Go take a look at the leaderboards and tell me how many magDKs you see in top raid groups (hint: there aren't any).

Meta group comp is 1 stamplar, 1 magsorc, 6 Nightblades. Or even 7 or 8 Nightblades if you run a sorc healer and have your Templar healer run PotL. Melee Magicka DPS hasn't been a thing since about Homestead.

I was talking about me specifically, i';m sure there is some dude out there that got more than 70 k on mag dk. but i can say this, on my mag dk i got some of my highest parses pretty close to stam and mag blade, never got to more than 65k, on any class, partially because iv'e never been into a group that allowed me to get to such numbers, because you know, those 80k parses aren't purely because of you, there is a good deal of lucky crits, and whether or not your group has good major slayer uptime, specifically on you, which isn't gonna happen always.

Samsgaard

Based on the DK, tanking, and other threads where Engulfing Flames comes up, I think I understand the context for the OP's question/poll. But I think those threads also kinda answer it, as did @LiquidPony. If I understand what a lot of people are saying, Engulfing Flames DEFAULTS to the tank because under the current DPS meta either there is no other DK in the group, or at least, no other DK that can afford to slot it.

Because Engulfing Flames' debuff is unique, and because it defaults to the tank, it reinforces the DK tank meta. So maybe the pertinent question is whether the debuff should be restricted to DKs. For example, if the debuff were available to Templars (another class with a flame theme), perhaps that would create some build diversity for tanks, healers, and even DPS?

It's funny that in beta and at a launch, I rolled an Argonian DK as my main, only because I wanted a Godzilla-like dude. I wasn't thinking at all about what would be meta for a tank. It's been interesting and convenient that Argonians have become a good race for tanks and that breathing fire is an essential tanking skill. Now if only they would make the Ashen Grip set a tanking set . . .

WuffyCerulei

I guess whichever DK wants to run it. If we got a magDK, we're golden. If the tank wants to run and are able to maintain it, that's fine too.

kadar

If you have a melee mDK DD in group, they will ofc use it. Otherwise the tank. Healers wouldn't meet the positioning requirements for good uptime.

Saint314Louis1985

Xvorg wrote: »

Engulfing? Unless you are runnig with flame based builds, it has little to no space. There are much better options for debuff, like concussion

Engulfing is a huge buff to mag dps and is a big reason why everyone runsdouble flame now. It adds somewhere around 7k + to an individual raid parse.

ccfeeling

Tank for sure .

Narvuntien

As a Magdk dps its an important part of my rotation, always bugs me a little if someone else is using it, that inefficiency!

I once ran a dungeon with 4 (mag)DKs it was amazing, we had to keep checking if it was vet because everything went down so fast... they were an actual tank and actual healer.

Qbiken

As it stands right now, tanks are the ones providing it. I however think a magicka DK DD "should" be the one providing it.

RedRook

Samsgaard wrote: »

Based on the DK, tanking, and other threads where Engulfing Flames comes up, I think I understand the context for the OP's question/poll. But I think those threads also kinda answer it, as did @LiquidPony. If I understand what a lot of people are saying, Engulfing Flames DEFAULTS to the tank because under the current DPS meta either there is no other DK in the group, or at least, no other DK that can afford to slot it.

Because Engulfing Flames' debuff is unique, and because it defaults to the tank, it reinforces the DK tank meta. So maybe the pertinent question is whether the debuff should be restricted to DKs. For example, if the debuff were available to Templars (another class with a flame theme), perhaps that would create some build diversity for tanks, healers, and even DPS?

Templars don't have a flame theme. Sun fire is the only skill that does flame damage - even Nova and the Burning Light proc on Aedric Spear skills are plain old "magic damage." I know, you'd think dropping pieces of the sun on people or procs with "burning" in them would burn, but nope.

Unique class debuffs need to stay unique class debuffs. The classes are already too much the same, and more to come as they continue to try to make every role on every class equal. (Or at least healing and tanking, I guess.) Pass on stripping any more class-defining abilities, or nerfing the hell out of them so the other four classes don't feel left out of something.

mocap

i use it on my dk tank. 9% fire damage to the group ain't that bad, considering fire damage is current meta (i think).

Septimus_Magna

Mag DK if one is in group
Otherwise the tank

Tremors

They just need to ditch that buff for the PLAYER WHO CASTS IT ONLY. Make it for the DK to buff their own damage.

Lowers the ceiling for mag dps and eliminates the need for DK tanks only but stays important for mag dk.

JinMori

mocap wrote: »

i use it on my dk tank. 9% fire damage to the group ain't that bad, considering fire damage is current meta (i think).

Ain't that bad? It's extremely powerful. It's the 10% btw

FakeFox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE4YfFlm2hE

DjMuscleboy02

they should just go ahead and add engulfing to magblades tbh why not

Carbonised

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

In a raid group it's obviously the tank's job, because there won't be any other DKs in the group. It's a DPS loss for a stamDK to run it, and we haven't seen melee mag DPS be relevant in raids since back around Homestead.

Hmm, what about all buffs say in summerset and wolf Hunter for Magdk?

They’re not wanted in high end raids, not good enough dps

Conclusion: Buff MDK or stop forcing them to be melee based, i.e. convert class skills to ranged combat.

kiLLahweSPe

Theres no option for "stop making idiotic polls". So yea, just dont. You're a bad class representative for any class and you should feel bad.