Build Shaming and Punk Kids

SaKGEE

Hello,

I don’t mean to make this into a complaint thread, but I have no other way of expressing my discontent. I’m a quest / roleplay / hunter - gatherer player from PC EU, and I’ve always liked the idea of hybrid builds. Coming from WoW with their fixed specs, I felt like the idea of combining mana and stamina abilities was very interesting! I mean in the real world, most people don’t have such a narrow specialisation as in most mmos, you know what I mean.

Anyways, thing is, I quickly put together a lore-friendly hybrid Argonian warden build called Sleeps-With-Fishes, and tried my luck with some normal group finder dungeons. So I looked up the best ways to tank, and I read about the frost staff changes, and I thought that it suited my warden well. With a bow back bar for ranged damage.
I'm maxed CP, but I never really attributed them, except 75 in Health regen in that green tree thing to help with the gathering of materials. So I just followed some guides on youtube, and thought I was ready.

Oh boy was I wrong. Most of the bosses, especially the last ones, whenever we made it to the end of the dungeon, which wasn’t often, especially for the DLC ones, one shot me before I could charge a Frost staff heavy attack. And the mobs swarmed me and my team before I could taunt them all, and no amount of arrow barrage could keep them at bay! And that’s in normal dungeons!
One would think players would be sympathetic to my plight, especially after I made sure to write a friendly message at the start of each dungeon explaining I was new and please bear (hehe warden pun ^^) with me while I learned the mechanics and tanking and such, but no.
To top of this horribly unbalanced experience, players were very toxic towards me, especially those that were doing these dungeons for something called “farm runs”? I guess it was for gear dropped there. Naturally, I never gave them any of my drops, after all they were very rude. But still I was left dejected after trying out a couple of dungeons, namely - The Banished Dungeons (with that Altmer Lich King and the daedra), Falkreath Hold, White Gold Tower, and the Elden Cave.

Is the community always so toxic? Also if you have any constructive criticism regarding my build, I’m open to any suggestions! Please do not grief or troll me though.
For the record, my build is as follows:
Robe of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Breeches of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Shoes of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Gloves of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Belt of Daedric Trickery - Infused
Reactive Helm - Impenetrable
Reactive Pauldrons - Impenetrable
3 blue Reactive jewellery all enchanted for reduce cost of block
Spinner Frost staff (non set while I get vMA done, work in progress ^^)
Marksman Bow

Regarding CP I have 100 points in reduce cost of block, and 75 in health regen (to get my gatherer passive), 100 points in Blessed, and 100 points in Quick Recovery, and the rest in Reduce Crit damage from bosses and rest of my CP I have in Befoul to reduce healing to debuff the bosses with my disease enchant.

Thank you for reading, and for your help!

GuyNamedSean

Unfortunately, you really do just have a poorly designed build. While questing you can use hybrid builds to some effectiveness, they really are useless pretty much everywhere else in the game. Most players have been dungeoning long before they reach CP750, so when they see someone that's maxed out and still doesn't know the fundamentals for dungeons, they tend to assume you didn't work for your levels and are just outright rude. There are plenty of players that don't mind taking someone in and showing them the ropes, but they usually aren't the players you'll run into just doing random dungeons.

If you're on Xbox NA I'd love to teach you everything you could need to know about tanking.

Kagukan

Never had a tank build so can't help you there.

The good people in the community out number the toxic. Its just the toxic are the loudest so they stand out. Don't let the few discourage you.

idk

No offense but your title is build shaming yet you explain seriously challenges you has performing your role.

The issue seems more about learning to perform your role and understanding mechanics. GF groups are often not friendly to someone leadning the basics of their role.

For starters, you need an instant taunt. The heavy attack of an ice staff is only worthwhile when it can be done safely which is almost never.

You should alsok find a social guild. Often known players are more willing to work with someone learning there’s role.

Salvas_Aren

Farmers can be angry if you waste their time. Try to see it from their perspective.

They do a dungeon maybe 20 times in a row and are not in the mood of carrying their 780s noob tank.

Tryxus

First off, drop Daedric Trickery and get a set of Ashen Grip instead. Everyone knows that's the go-to DPS set

Also, as a Warden, you need to be trained in a specific type of Kung Fu before you can output decent DPS. Such as the Way of the Drunken Warden, or the Cliff Racer stance (which is kinda like the Crane Stance from Karate Kid, only this one actually allows you to fly)

Sheezabeast

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

Inarre

Eh your other posts are about mechanics. I have to wonder too if you're just having a laugh at our expense.

DanteYoda

Play how you want play, enjoy the game and imo ignore the aholes..

That said i found this build very helpful.

http://esoacademy.com/builds/magicka-warden-frost-staff-tank/

Yes its an older build but it still works imo and read the comments at the bottom.. It helped me immensely as a prototype for my build.

pod88kk

This was difficult to read

Kuramas9tails

First of all, if anyone is farming normal dungeons for gear....they don't need a tank. The problem is them, not you. My boyfriend and I can two man every dungeon and some Vet as two DPS. Any experienced player blaming the tank on normal are scrubs and should fix their own build before looking at you.

Adds:
If they are swarmed with adds on normal, they should be able to handle it.. With that said, as a tank....you shouldn't HAVE to taunt every single add, especially on normal! There's adds that will deal less damage that will take away your resources that DPS can manage on their own. You focus on the boss and main adds that deal a good bit of damage.

Blocking:
Don't hold block all the time! As a tank, you always heavy attack weave to get stamina back. I only tanked as a DK and I can say, most of my abilities are magic so I have a lot in magic which one of my moves convert magic into stamina when I really need it but I use heavy attack with my sword and board for stamina back. For you, your heavy attack ice will only restore magic.

Chose DPS or Tanking:
Don't use a bow. If you are going full blown Tank, have Sword and Board. The passives in that skill tree helps a lot with blocking damage. If you want to do ice Staff, have Sword and Board or both bars Sword and Board. It will help you a lot. Not to mention the taunt the S&B has is a lot cheaper than inner rage (if you use that). JS.

Once you are comfortable tanking on normal and can get through normals without issues, then I would consider throwing in a bow to add some DPS from time to time in between taunting and blocking but get accustomed to tanking first.

You can play whatever build you want on your own, when it comes to a group effort though, you have to critique your build. It's sad more people are willing to tell you your build is wrong and not help. My boyfriend and I have came across a lot of bad healers/tanks that we are usually the last two standing and depending on how often the two randoms die, we keep them dead and finish the boss but we will not call them out but just point out something like "I see you are using _____, try using _____". We try and help out rather be *** about it. We were both there at one point and had people help us. That's how we were able to grow and get better.

If you were on PS4, my boyfriend and I would run some normals with you and could help you as we watched you. Maybe someone on PC would be willing to help you in person.

Don't be discouraged though. Keep researching builds and work on rotation and resource management. Make sure you change CP to match your role.

Good luck!

Salvas_Aren

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

First of all, if anyone is farming normal dungeons for gear....they don't need a tank. The problem is them, not you.

In generall - true. But when the tank gets oneshot? In a normal? Repeatedly? You'll have a hard time to blaim that on the DDs.

mikemacon

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Farmers can be angry if you waste their time. Try to see it from their perspective.

They do a dungeon maybe 20 times in a row and are not in the mood of carrying their 780s noob tank.

Then they shouldn’t PUG their farming runs.

Full stop.

Shadowmaster

There is a reason there is a meta, because it is effective.

If you setup a scenario where your teammates are going to have a less good experience than they could have, simply so you can play something "non-meta", you can't be surprised when they aren't huge fans of it.

Their team means as much to them as yours means to you if not more.

Salvas_Aren

mikemacon wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Farmers can be angry if you waste their time. Try to see it from their perspective.

They do a dungeon maybe 20 times in a row and are not in the mood of carrying their 780s noob tank.

Then they shouldn’t PUG their farming runs.

Full stop.

Next sentence: The tank gets oneshot? In a normal? Repeatedly? You'll have a hard time to blaim that on the DDs.

MYWARCHILD887

You want to be hybrid, that's great. The problem here is your build. You have a DPS build and you are trying to tank. It's not going to work. There is a reason DPS are called squishie. If you really want to tank than get rid of everything you are wearing and start over with some resistance gear and health gear. And get rid of that ice staff and pick up a sword and board.

FYI - I have been a hybrid tank for over 2 years. I am currently running Brass, TBS and Skoria.

idk

Tryxus wrote: »

First off, drop Daedric Trickery and get a set of Ashen Grip instead. Everyone knows that's the go-to DPS set

Also, as a Warden, you need to be trained in a specific type of Kung Fu before you can output decent DPS. Such as the Way of the Drunken Warden, or the Cliff Racer stance (which is kinda like the Crane Stance from Karate Kid, only this one actually allows you to fly)

He’s tanking. Well, he’s trying to learn to tank.

Until he can tank well he should ignore any idea of doing dps. Nothing worse than a tank challenged with tanking trying to do dps which is probably on par with his tanking.

My previous post says what OP should do without getting into details and certainly bad details as this post does.

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Farmers can be angry if you waste their time. Try to see it from their perspective.

They do a dungeon maybe 20 times in a row and are not in the mood of carrying their 780s noob tank.

Then they shouldn’t PUG their farming runs.

Full stop.

Next sentence: The tank gets oneshot? In a normal? Repeatedly? You'll have a hard time to blaim that on the DDs.

This is the reason the above quote is so wrong.

AlnilamE

Sheezabeast wrote: »

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

What weapon do you suggest a tank back bar then?

Sheezabeast

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

What weapon do you suggest a tank back bar then?

Lots of tanks go double sword and shield, or back bar a 2h.

Banana

Go here. https://woeler.eu if serious. Which i doubt.

Sergykid

normal dungeons are soloable so no place to complain in any. DLC ones are harder indeed but 3 people would carry on by themselves. Don't know why daedric trickery and reactive are part of your lore-play character, but this is not just the problem. The abilities you use, the passives you have active, are also very important

VaranisArano

You're getting enough build advice, so lets talk tanking.

You need a taunt, a crowd control skill, and sufficient health not to die instantly in order to be a decent tank, even for normal dungeons.

Your chosen taunt is the Ice Staff Heavy Attack with the Trifocus passive, presumably because it uses magicka. Since,you are having problems getting it to fire in time, I suggest you augment it with the Undaunted Skill Inner Fire, which is also a ranged magicka taunt and is much faster. (Puncture from One Hand and Shield is the best taunt, because of its powerful debuffs.)

Now, for the mobs. You cant taunt everything as a tank. Save your taunts for the boss and more powerful adds in the mob, like minibosses. Instead, you need to crowd control the mob. Your goal is to bunch them up so that the DPS can mow them down in one go. You need a skill that will slow, stun, or lock down the whole mob. Caltrops will do in a pinch, much better than Arrow Barrage. It helps a lot if you are the first person to hit the mob, but sometimes DDs get impatient. Fitting with your hybrid build, Silver Leash from Fighters Guild will let you pull farther away adds to you.

Now for getting one shot by the boss. Your job is to keep the boss taunted (use Inner Fire as a back up if Ice Staff is too slow), hold the boss more or less still so the DDs can focus the boss, and stay alive while blocking, interrupting, and following boss mechanics. This takes practice and it does take a certain investment in tanking when you are new to dungeons. I can tank normal dungeons on a squishy DD with a taunt no problem, but that's because I learned to tank on a Tank, with 30k health and decent damage resistances and I know the mechanics really well. You probably want to start off much tanker because its a cushion for when you make mistakes.

If you want to learn to tank, I suggest these steps:
1. Figure out your taunt, a crowd control skill to slow/lockdown mobs, and a self-heal.
2. Equip yourself like a tank. Get a decent health pool (sets like Plague Doctor, Hist Bark, Whitestrake's Retribution are good training tank sets and easy to acquire) and get a decent amount of physical and spell resistances with gear/skills (these cap out at 33k or 50% mitigation - I'm at about 20-25k resistances for most dungeons)
3. Queue for specific dungeons. You'll want to practice until you get comfortable. So start with the easy ones like Banished Cells 1 or Fungal Grotto 1 and work your way up to the harder ones. The more comfortable you get with the mechanics and the bosses, the better you'll do as a tank.


Hope that helps! I'm always happy to see someone new want to be a tank. Theres no reason you cant make a hybrid tank, but hopefully this helps you figure out some of the pieces your hybrid build needs in order to flesh it out as a tank.

EvilAutoTech

There were a handful of things I noticed about your build that I have suggestions for.

1 you are not wearing enough of any armor weight to get the full benefit from the passives. You have four light, one medium and two heavy. Tanking can be effectively performed in any weight but make sure you have at least five pieces of whichever weight you prefer. Also, shoulders are just about the worst place to go heavy if you are trying to increase your resistance, waist is also terrible.

2 You may want to start your tanking training by crafting (or buying) a five piece set of Whitestrake's Retribution. While there are better craftable sets for tanking, Whitestrake's has a shield that activates at low health and can keep you alive until you are able to manage your resources better. Another option for a beginning tank in lught/medium is Fortified Brass, it helps get your resistances up.

3 if you really want to play the hybrid style, there is a craftable set called Pelinal's Aptitude that will equalize your magicka and stamina pools. To me it seems like a waste of a five piece bonus but it does allow hybrid characters to do some damage.

4 ice staff taunt cannot be your primary taunt. As you have already seen, it takes way too long to be effective at the start of a fight. If you really want to magicka tank, you need the taunt from the undaunted skill line. But as has been pointed out, one hand and shield is the best first option for tanking. The game is designed for it and that's why so many tanks use it.

One last thing, Maelstrom weapons are not great for tanking. The weapons that are still viable are best for DPS. In my opinion it is better to have your weapons be part of a five piece set and and use a good monster set for your head and shoulders.

I started tanking with my main, a Templar, at around 300 CP. You can learn how to perform any role, at any character level, even using group finder, but it is a lot easier when you have friends who are willing to help.

Septimus_Magna

How to succeed at hybrid builds 101:

1) pick a stam race like Redguard or Khajiit
2) slap on stam dmg and healing ablities
3) slap on mag skills to buff/debuff
4) profit

VaranisArano

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

There were a handful of things I noticed about your build that I have suggestions for.

1 you are not wearing enough of any armor weight to get the full benefit from the passives. You have four light, one medium and two heavy. Tanking can be effectively performed in any weight but make sure you have at least five pieces of whichever weight you prefer. Also, shoulders are just about the worst place to go heavy if you are trying to increase your resistance, waist is also terrible.

2 You may want to start your tanking training by crafting (or buying) a five piece set of Whitestrake's Retribution. While there are better craftable sets for tanking, Whitestrake's has a shield that activates at low health and can keep you alive until you are able to manage your resources better. Another option for a beginning tank in lught/medium is Fortified Brass, it helps get your resistances up.

3 if you really want to play the hybrid style, there is a craftable set called Pelinal's Aptitude that will equalize your magicka and stamina pools. To me it seems like a waste of a five piece bonus but it does allow hybrid characters to do some damage.

4 ice staff taunt cannot be your primary taunt. As you have already seen, it takes way too long to be effective at the start of a fight. If you really want to magicka tank, you need the taunt from the undaunted skill line. But as has been pointed out, one hand and shield is the best first option for tanking. The game is designed for it and that's why so many tanks use it.

One last thing, Maelstrom weapons are not great for tanking. The weapons that are still viable are best for DPS. In my opinion it is better to have your weapons be part of a five piece set and and use a good monster set for your head and shoulders.

I started tanking with my main, a Templar, at around 300 CP. You can learn how to perform any role, at any character level, even using group finder, but it is a lot easier when you have friends who are willing to help.

I want to second the recommendation for Whitestrake's Retribution. That set was the perfect training wheels for my tank. The damage shield kept me alive through many mostakes and best of all, when the shield stopped proccing as much I knew I was getting better as a tank.

DuskMarine

SaKGEE wrote: »

Hello,

I don’t mean to make this into a complaint thread, but I have no other way of expressing my discontent. I’m a quest / roleplay / hunter - gatherer player from PC EU, and I’ve always liked the idea of hybrid builds. Coming from WoW with their fixed specs, I felt like the idea of combining mana and stamina abilities was very interesting! I mean in the real world, most people don’t have such a narrow specialisation as in most mmos, you know what I mean.

Anyways, thing is, I quickly put together a lore-friendly hybrid Argonian warden build called Sleeps-With-Fishes, and tried my luck with some normal group finder dungeons. So I looked up the best ways to tank, and I read about the frost staff changes, and I thought that it suited my warden well. With a bow back bar for ranged damage.
I'm maxed CP, but I never really attributed them, except 75 in Health regen in that green tree thing to help with the gathering of materials. So I just followed some guides on youtube, and thought I was ready.

Oh boy was I wrong. Most of the bosses, especially the last ones, whenever we made it to the end of the dungeon, which wasn’t often, especially for the DLC ones, one shot me before I could charge a Frost staff heavy attack. And the mobs swarmed me and my team before I could taunt them all, and no amount of arrow barrage could keep them at bay! And that’s in normal dungeons!
One would think players would be sympathetic to my plight, especially after I made sure to write a friendly message at the start of each dungeon explaining I was new and please bear (hehe warden pun ^^) with me while I learned the mechanics and tanking and such, but no.
To top of this horribly unbalanced experience, players were very toxic towards me, especially those that were doing these dungeons for something called “farm runs”? I guess it was for gear dropped there. Naturally, I never gave them any of my drops, after all they were very rude. But still I was left dejected after trying out a couple of dungeons, namely - The Banished Dungeons (with that Altmer Lich King and the daedra), Falkreath Hold, White Gold Tower, and the Elden Cave.

Is the community always so toxic? Also if you have any constructive criticism regarding my build, I’m open to any suggestions! Please do not grief or troll me though.
For the record, my build is as follows:
Robe of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Breeches of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Shoes of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Gloves of Daedric Trickery - Sturdy
Belt of Daedric Trickery - Infused
Reactive Helm - Impenetrable
Reactive Pauldrons - Impenetrable
3 blue Reactive jewellery all enchanted for reduce cost of block
Spinner Frost staff (non set while I get vMA done, work in progress ^^)
Marksman Bow

Regarding CP I have 100 points in reduce cost of block, and 75 in health regen (to get my gatherer passive), 100 points in Blessed, and 100 points in Quick Recovery, and the rest in Reduce Crit damage from bosses and rest of my CP I have in Befoul to reduce healing to debuff the bosses with my disease enchant.

Thank you for reading, and for your help!

@SaKGEE just saying in this game hybrid builds dont work if your a hybrid build and you go into a dungeon expect to get booted. and in a farming run if your not speced and your dieing as the tank almost continuously cause your trying to attack yea even id kick you cause i dont have time for it but with me youd get about 6 or 7 tries of us trying to help your playstyle but if you cant do it you cant do it. and thats where your problem comes in to others your just a waste of time to them people want the already speced out already know what their doing people for farming runs. but on tanks your gonna get told sword and board is god because it basically is. ice staff is crud cause your only taunt is that heavy attack if you dont have inner rage unlocked yet and you drop block for even a second your likely gonna die. but a tank should never ever have a bow that is just a taboo no no and if people see that even get equipped youll have maybe 5 seconds for them to register say wtf and youll see a vote kick. pve in this game doesnt cater to hybrids at all your either stamina or your magicka and the health attribute is worthless. but also whoever helped you build your build really wanted to screw you over cause that is grade a junk armor. if your wanting to even attempt a hybrid youd want like shacklebreaker and like plague doctors with bloodspawn

AlnilamE

Sheezabeast wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

What weapon do you suggest a tank back bar then?

Lots of tanks go double sword and shield, or back bar a 2h.

How is a 2h superior to a bow (or DW?) for a tank?

Salvas_Aren

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

What weapon do you suggest a tank back bar then?

Lots of tanks go double sword and shield, or back bar a 2h.

How is a 2h superior to a bow (or DW?) for a tank?

I think for charging an enemy or for using the finisher if he is almost done while still taunted?

DuskMarine

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

If I saw a tank with a bow....*shakes head*

What weapon do you suggest a tank back bar then?

Lots of tanks go double sword and shield, or back bar a 2h.

How is a 2h superior to a bow (or DW?) for a tank?

buffs but really your never suppose to roll a dps weapon on a tank period thats just asking to die

Salvas_Aren

My stam tank to be will get WS+DW. Makes sense to me. Hope it works.

MyNameIsElias

I haven't tanked in quite a while, probably not since Imperial City patch. But back then i used to run a two hander on my backbar, it might help more then a bow