Nerf anti-infantry sieges

Skander

More tactical sieges, less damage sieges.


Enough said

geonsocal

if the attackers have enough numbers and are smart enough to set up siege on the walls once they're inside the outer keep walls - they can push you right off the inner keep top floor...

the day of the siege shield and bastion of the heartland set is upon us...

RaddlemanNumber7

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

DocFrost72

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

This is when you put a small man on the front door. No joke, some brave souls doing this is enough to royally mess up the defenders. 6 man with 3-4 balista and keep dummy rushing the breach, bang it's open and the defenders are in the open courtyard.

Joy_Division

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

Vampire Assassins!

jaws343

Most successful sieges that tend towards stalemates are usually broken by taking down another wall. You have to get creative.

Neoauspex

First, fix the map so there's 2 towns in each faction's home area. Then make the towns "siege factories". If your alliance owns both home siege factories, you can have 20 siege at any keep. If you have 1 home factory the siege limit is 10, and if you have neither the siege limit is 5.

Just an idea.

geonsocal

Neoauspex wrote: »

First, fix the map so there's 2 towns in each faction's home area. Then make the towns "siege factories". If your alliance owns both home siege factories, you can have 20 siege at any keep. If you have 1 home factory the siege limit is 10, and if you have neither the siege limit is 5.

Just an idea.

that's an awesome idea...shouldn't be beyond zenimax's capabilities...maybe...

seems the whole pvp budget these days though is going towards battlegrounds...

man, could you imagine a map with a few more capturable towns (cheydinhal and chorrol) and re-attached bridges to imperial city - with - imperial city incorporated in to the base game (it's 4 year old content now)...

and, 2X AP all day, every day...

umagon

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

Keeps have a limited number of sieges that can be placed; just make more breaches. More breaches reduce the number of defensive sieges at each breach. And it only takes one offensive siege to hold a breach open. Find the breach with the lowest amount of defense and go in.

Tiphis

umagon wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

Keeps have a limited number of sieges that can be placed; just make more breaches. More breaches reduce the number of defensive sieges at each breach. And it only takes one offensive siege to hold a breach open. Find the breach with the lowest amount of defense and go in.

Sure the issue with that is that you still need to have people hitting the first wall in order for it to not get repped. The 2nd breach has to be close enough that you arent splitting your forces and risk getting wiped. The 2nd breach also has to be far enough from the 2nd breach that the defenders have to split up, 5 siege with catapults plus somebody running time stop can hold a breach for awhile.

Scattershot + cold fire ballista in a time stop stun kills pretty much everything when you factor in ground aoe damage and of course the defenders actually using abilities.

usmguy1234

It's called siege the opposite side of the keep. The defenders won't see it because the keep will already be lit up and everyone will be focused on the front door siege. Storm in and kill the opposition while they are still on their siege. If you stack up trying to push in one choke-point, you deserve to die.

DivineFirstYOLO

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

Agree, and I actually hope that it is going to get worse, expecially on CP campaigns, so that more and more people will realize how overpowered the sieges against players are. I have been defending keeps with only 2 scatterhots on new low level chars in no CP, left click, alt, get to the other siege, left click, alt, etc. Every stupid noob is able to do that, it's freaking unfair.
Next patch on monday will hopefully open a few people's eyes (especially in Vivec).

Sieges against players need a nerf in NO CP, Sieges against other sieges could be buffed. Left click monkey meta needs to stop.

rfennell_ESO

There is an easy solution.... decrease stacked siege ground effects damage.

First one does full damage...and depreciate the stacked damage in a reasonable way after that. ie 75% 50% 25% 10% 0%

That way it's still effective (less so, obviously), but stacking everything at one location (note many times you can't actually see all the red circles) degrades in effectiveness.

Neoauspex

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There is an easy solution.... decrease stacked siege ground effects damage.

First one does full damage...and depreciate the stacked damage in a reasonable way after that. ie 75% 50% 25% 10% 0%

That way it's still effective (less so, obviously), but stacking everything at one location (note many times you can't actually see all the red circles) degrades in effectiveness.

Wait... Are you suggesting... AOE CAPS? Dun dun duhhhhhhh <camera zooms, music crescendos>

Marcus684

Powerful siege allows a small number of defenders to hold off a larger force at the breach, which is how it should be. If an attacking Zerg is just gonna mass-potato through the well-defended breach, they deserve to get wiped. Smart gameplay should be rewarded more than dumb gameplay. Like others have said, if you have the numbers advantage, open a 2nd hole. If you don’t have the numbers advantage when attacking a strongpoint, you probably shouldn’t be attacking it in the first place.

agrr70

Looks like seige in CP is guna be more powerful, good,use tactics to get around choke points etc,it stopped the idiotic unkillable ballgroups that you chased around till you were dizzy, and got us back into big decent open field skirmishes again, happy days.

rfennell_ESO

Neoauspex wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There is an easy solution.... decrease stacked siege ground effects damage.

First one does full damage...and depreciate the stacked damage in a reasonable way after that. ie 75% 50% 25% 10% 0%

That way it's still effective (less so, obviously), but stacking everything at one location (note many times you can't actually see all the red circles) degrades in effectiveness.

Wait... Are you suggesting... AOE CAPS? Dun dun duhhhhhhh <camera zooms, music crescendos>

I'm suggesting a form of AOE cap that isn't quite the same as the one that was eliminated "because it was destroying the game", but who's elimination didn't actually improve anything (mostly the opposite effect for whatever reason).

idk

Considering the AoE cap was recently removed I seriously doubt adding a new one will be considered.

Starshadw

Marcus684 wrote: »

Powerful siege allows a small number of defenders to hold off a larger force at the breach, which is how it should be. If an attacking Zerg is just gonna mass-potato through the well-defended breach, they deserve to get wiped. Smart gameplay should be rewarded more than dumb gameplay. Like others have said, if you have the numbers advantage, open a 2nd hole. If you don’t have the numbers advantage when attacking a strongpoint, you probably shouldn’t be attacking it in the first place.

While I agree with this in theory, the buff to siege damage this patch for CP campaigns went too far. As in, over the dang cliff too far. And no, giving Siege Shield a buff up to 50% damage reduction wasn't enough to counter the problem. As I said on the PTS forums, the siege damage did not need a buff on CP campaigns. It felt like it was in a good place before the patch - strong, but not to the point of ridiculousness.

Neoauspex

I totally agree that siege should be strong enough so that few defenders can protect a keep from greater numbers. This becomes problematic though when half a server camps at the last emp keep and there's no way to flip it. That's why I suggested the "siege factory" mechanic in the post above.

Mrsinister2

I was killing people with one shot from a cold fire ballista. If they don't have purge it was completly wrecking them.

While this was pretty fun initially it gives people no incentive to actually go fight when you can just click one button and shut people completly down.

jaws343

Tiphis wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Who is going to get through the outer walls though?

From what I've seen in the last few weeks it's already impossible to get through gates and breaches that are being defended with catapults. Sieges are turning into stalemates once more than 20 or 30 people are involved on each side. After the next update hits on Monday I think it's only going to get worse, especially on the CP campaigns.

Keeps have a limited number of sieges that can be placed; just make more breaches. More breaches reduce the number of defensive sieges at each breach. And it only takes one offensive siege to hold a breach open. Find the breach with the lowest amount of defense and go in.

Sure the issue with that is that you still need to have people hitting the first wall in order for it to not get repped. The 2nd breach has to be close enough that you arent splitting your forces and risk getting wiped. The 2nd breach also has to be far enough from the 2nd breach that the defenders have to split up, 5 siege with catapults plus somebody running time stop can hold a breach for awhile.

Scattershot + cold fire ballista in a time stop stun kills pretty much everything when you factor in ground aoe damage and of course the defenders actually using abilities.

It only takes 2 or 3 people to drop a wall in a few minutes. While the main force of attackers hit the front door, send a handful of players to the back wall to bring it down as well. Once that wall goes down, announce it in zone chat. The team at the front door can sweep around and usually get into the keep without any trouble.

This happens at Allessia all the time. EP hits the front door and stalemates. But a group hits mine side and drops the wall with little resistance. And then the front door folks sweep around to the new breach and the keep falls pretty quickly.

mojomood

More siege for attackers than for defense. No more stalemate.

Lylith

geonsocal wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

First, fix the map so there's 2 towns in each faction's home area. Then make the towns "siege factories". If your alliance owns both home siege factories, you can have 20 siege at any keep. If you have 1 home factory the siege limit is 10, and if you have neither the siege limit is 5.

Just an idea.

that's an awesome idea...shouldn't be beyond zenimax's capabilities...maybe...

seems the whole pvp budget these days though is going towards battlegrounds...

man, could you imagine a map with a few more capturable towns (cheydinhal and chorrol) and re-attached bridges to imperial city - with - imperial city incorporated in to the base game (it's 4 year old content now)...

and, 2X AP all day, every day...

doesn't it, though?

like they're trying to force us into it by making cyrodil more and more onerous and less rewarding.

Skander

I mean, how can devs balance things when their most pvp experience is going around in cyrodill with a group of 24 people spamming snipe?


Becouse that's the avarege pvper you'll encounter

Kadoin

Skander wrote: »

I mean, how can devs balance things when their most pvp experience is going around in cyrodill with a group of 24 people spamming snipe?


Becouse that's the avarege pvper you'll encounter

Blame it on snipe being one of the only skills that don't result in getting a loading screen

Rojnaar

Personally, I've loved the siege stuff lately. Running cold fire and vicious death on the good ole "ball n spam" groups has given me so many good memories. I think I even got booted from the server once just after I was flooded with killing blow messages on a zerg ball. It's been beautiful, and if it ends, oh well it was fun while it lasted, back to unstoppable balls of spam.

DreadDaedroth

Rojnaar wrote: »

Personally, I've loved the siege stuff lately. Running cold fire and vicious death on the good ole "ball n spam" groups has given me so many good memories. I think I even got booted from the server once just after I was flooded with killing blow messages on a zerg ball. It's been beautiful, and if it ends, oh well it was fun while it lasted, back to unstoppable balls of spam.

So siege and Vicious Death still combo with eachother?:D
Nice news!