Need advice for sorc tanking

Jaimeh

Let me start by saying I am relatively new to tanking; I have a DK tank that I’ve done some dungeons with, but I didn’t really enjoy it. A while ago I was grouped with a sorc tank for a dungeon, and it seemed like fun, so I decided to level a new character (I chose an Imperial), and give it a go. I was hoping to get some help because I don’t know the first thing about sorc tanking—eventually I want to be able to tank dungeons and maybe off-tank trials, so here are my questions:

1. How should I distribute my attribute points? Should I make a decision between a magicka-based playstyle versus stamina, or should I put points into both, and be more of a hybrid?
2. What are my specific strengths and weaknesses being a sorc tank, that is, which class skills set me apart, and which things I lack that I should compensate for? I know for example that Dark Deal is nice for stamina regen, and Encase can work as a CC, etc.
3. Which sets should I get?
4. If I’m using Surge as a source of self-healing, what crit chance % should I aim for? Or should I drop surge and use a pet for healing?
5. I like the idea of having 1H/S on the front bar, and then a lightning staff on the back bar—is that viable?

Thank you in advance for your help, any advice and suggestions you can share in addition to the above, would be very welcome!

Liofa

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427944/conduit-sorc-tank-non-pet-build

Here is a very decent Sorcerer Tank build someone shared in the Tanking Feedback Discord a while ago. Very good in my opinion except a few changes I would make. But this is a very good place to start and you can swap to a bit more risky but more rewarding gameplay like Lightning Staff back bar.

For your questions:

1- Go full on Health. As a Tank, you have a lot of scaling on Health. It means, the more you invest, the more you get. Max Magicka and Max Stamina only affect damage and healing and they are not your concern as a tank. Keep in mind that Surge healing is a flat amount and not boosted by Weapon/Spell Damage or Max Stamina/Magicka. Try to get your other stats as high as possible. Easiest way to do this is using tri-stat enchants on all armour and using tri-stat food. These alone should get you to 19-20k on each stat on an Imperial, which is an amazing race choice by the way.

2- Your strengths are having a constant supply of self healing with Surge and the best stamina sustain with correct gameplay, using Dark Deal. When you look at Helping Hands passive of DK for example, you'll see that it gives 1k Stamina for about 4k Magicka (Fragmented Shield) while Dark Deal costs 2-2.5k Magicka and restores 4k Stamina. So there is a huge difference in terms of sustain but it is a bit risky since it requires you to drop block. So it is a risk-reward gameplay. Don't be discouraged by this, the risk part isn't even big. The amount of attacks that you actually have to block are very limited in this game.

3- Ebon and Alkosh are most effective and important tanking sets currently. One gives survivability while the other one boosts damage so it is an all around perfect setup for many situations. There are few other sets but most are situational. As for monster set, there are few you need to have. First one is Thurvokun. This set is absolutely amazing for trash packs. Applying Minor Maim to everything in a huge area provides the best defense for the group in trash fights. Second one is Lord Warden. This one is another very strong set that works better in boss fights where there aren't many adds around. If you are stacking as a group, this will help people survive the one shots. Another one is Earthgore. This will help your own survival by providing insane burst healing when you actually need it. Rest are mostly situational like Blood Spawn, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Troll King etc.

4- Keep Surge whatever critical you have but only in conditions where you want self healing. You will be using Boundless Storm for the Resistance buffs and it is AOE damage skill so it will proc Surge on cooldown. In single target fights where you only have the boss and nothing else, you won't need healing from Surge. I tanked pretty much everything and I don't recall a fight where I tank a boss without adds and there is no healer.

5- Yes. It is currently the best setup when you have a lot of Stamina DDs in the group because you give them access to Exploiter passive through Lightning Blockade. When you have mostly Magicka DDs, they don't have access to Exploiter passive, it's better to have Ice Staff for utility like amazing AOE snare, ranged interrupt and Elemental Drain if necessary.

Let me know if you have more questions!

jypcy

1. Tanks in general are more of a hybrid. Not to say specializing won’t work, but because most builds use both resource pools, it’s good to make sure you have enough of each. The general recommendation is about 20k pools each for stamina and magicka, and about 35k pool for health.
2. Dark deal and encase are good mentions. Also, the clanfear is your health-based heal. It’s not necessarily useful (takes up two bar slots, might need to be resummoned, and is very expensive) but good to know nonetheless. Crit surge is another powerful heal for you. Not good for a big panic heal, but can be a very good heal over time (HoT). Lightning form/its morphs give you resistance buffs and also are a good way to draw aggro from large groups because they’re aoes that move with you. The shield skill is based on your magicka, not health, so probably won’t be all that useful for you if you do build hybrid.
3. Tank sets are pretty standard across classes. Idk if you need special considerations here for being a sorc, but I’m happy to offer feedback on specific sets if you have questions about them, or offer suggestions if you have something special in mind you want a set to compensate for.
4. Didn’t read this before so kind of answered above. I don’t use the pet on my sorc tank, but that doesn’t mean you can’t. Building for a high crit chance might come at the cost of more important stats, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I see surge as a fire and forget skill that’ll help keep my health up. If it starts getting lower and I need a panic heal, I use dark deal for that.
5. That’s pretty common for tanks nowadays actually, because you can use the staff’s wall of elements to help with your crusher enchant’s uptime. I wouldn’t recommend trying to dish out uber damage with the staff, though; think of it as a utility weapon for your tank.

Jaimeh

Liofa wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/427944/conduit-sorc-tank-non-pet-build

Here is a very decent Sorcerer Tank build someone shared in the Tanking Feedback Discord a while ago. Very good in my opinion except a few changes I would make. But this is a very good place to start and you can swap to a bit more risky but more rewarding gameplay like Lightning Staff back bar.

For your questions:

1- Go full on Health. As a Tank, you have a lot of scaling on Health. It means, the more you invest, the more you get. Max Magicka and Max Stamina only affect damage and healing and they are not your concern as a tank. Keep in mind that Surge healing is a flat amount and not boosted by Weapon/Spell Damage or Max Stamina/Magicka. Try to get your other stats as high as possible. Easiest way to do this is using tri-stat enchants on all armour and using tri-stat food. These alone should get you to 19-20k on each stat on an Imperial, which is an amazing race choice by the way.

2- Your strengths are having a constant supply of self healing with Surge and the best stamina sustain with correct gameplay, using Dark Deal. When you look at Helping Hands passive of DK for example, you'll see that it gives 1k Stamina for about 4k Magicka (Fragmented Shield) while Dark Deal costs 2-2.5k Magicka and restores 4k Stamina. So there is a huge difference in terms of sustain but it is a bit risky since it requires you to drop block. So it is a risk-reward gameplay. Don't be discouraged by this, the risk part isn't even big. The amount of attacks that you actually have to block are very limited in this game.

3- Ebon and Alkosh are most effective and important tanking sets currently. One gives survivability while the other one boosts damage so it is an all around perfect setup for many situations. There are few other sets but most are situational. As for monster set, there are few you need to have. First one is Thurvokun. This set is absolutely amazing for trash packs. Applying Minor Maim to everything in a huge area provides the best defense for the group in trash fights. Second one is Lord Warden. This one is another very strong set that works better in boss fights where there aren't many adds around. If you are stacking as a group, this will help people survive the one shots. Another one is Earthgore. This will help your own survival by providing insane burst healing when you actually need it. Rest are mostly situational like Blood Spawn, Sentinel of Rkugamz, Troll King etc.

4- Keep Surge whatever critical you have but only in conditions where you want self healing. You will be using Boundless Storm for the Resistance buffs and it is AOE damage skill so it will proc Surge on cooldown. In single target fights where you only have the boss and nothing else, you won't need healing from Surge. I tanked pretty much everything and I don't recall a fight where I tank a boss without adds and there is no healer.

5- Yes. It is currently the best setup when you have a lot of Stamina DDs in the group because you give them access to Exploiter passive through Lightning Blockade. When you have mostly Magicka DDs, they don't have access to Exploiter passive, it's better to have Ice Staff for utility like amazing AOE snare, ranged interrupt and Elemental Drain if necessary.

Let me know if you have more questions!

@Liofa Thank you so much for your detailed respose! I'll make sure to read discussion in the link as well I have a few more questions, I hope you don't mind: if health is my biggest pool, will I be able to regen stamina or magicka from things like shards? Also, which jewelery trait would be best? If I'll use Alkosh then I will have it on jewels and weapons, so should I retrait the jewels to healthy, or to something else? Finally, what weight should the monster set be? Thank you again, I really appreciate all the information, and you taking the time to reply!

Jaimeh

jypcy wrote: »

1. Tanks in general are more of a hybrid. Not to say specializing won’t work, but because most builds use both resource pools, it’s good to make sure you have enough of each. The general recommendation is about 20k pools each for stamina and magicka, and about 35k pool for health.
2. Dark deal and encase are good mentions. Also, the clanfear is your health-based heal. It’s not necessarily useful (takes up two bar slots, might need to be resummoned, and is very expensive) but good to know nonetheless. Crit surge is another powerful heal for you. Not good for a big panic heal, but can be a very good heal over time (HoT). Lightning form/its morphs give you resistance buffs and also are a good way to draw aggro from large groups because they’re aoes that move with you. The shield skill is based on your magicka, not health, so probably won’t be all that useful for you if you do build hybrid.
3. Tank sets are pretty standard across classes. Idk if you need special considerations here for being a sorc, but I’m happy to offer feedback on specific sets if you have questions about them, or offer suggestions if you have something special in mind you want a set to compensate for.
4. Didn’t read this before so kind of answered above. I don’t use the pet on my sorc tank, but that doesn’t mean you can’t. Building for a high crit chance might come at the cost of more important stats, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I see surge as a fire and forget skill that’ll help keep my health up. If it starts getting lower and I need a panic heal, I use dark deal for that.
5. That’s pretty common for tanks nowadays actually, because you can use the staff’s wall of elements to help with your crusher enchant’s uptime. I wouldn’t recommend trying to dish out uber damage with the staff, though; think of it as a utility weapon for your tank.

@jypcy Thank you very much for your input, this is very helpful! I did have a build in mind, though it's not benefiting the group like Ebon and Alkosh, but I was thinking of something like Akaviri Dragonguard, because paired with the sorc passives for lower cost ultis, I could perhaps cast WHs more frequently. One question about shields: since they won't be that big due to small magicka pool, do you think it'd be worth it to put points into Bastion to boost it a bit? Again, thanks a lot for your help!

GimpyPorcupine

Here's a setup I ran a while ago. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384811/my-sorc-tank-battlemage

Recently, I've been running an Ultimate build, wearing 5 Shalk's, 5 Akaviri Dragonguard, and 2 Bloodspawn. 1H/S and Frost staff. I built it for PVP, but it works OK in dungeons; I can get 100% uptime on Storm Atronach in fights, which leads to about 25% uptime on Major Berserk for the group. Optionally, I can run Warhorn if that buff makes more sense. The rework of the Blood Magic passive, ticking every .5 seconds, means that the self-heal from either Negate morph is insane (8% of max health every half second for over 10 seconds).

Also, the change to Bound Armor (both Morphs) to increase block mitigation is good to use.

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

Contrary to what @Liofa said, I would spread out the attribute points a little to get bigger resource pools. Look at using Jewels of Misrule (Max Health, Stam and Mag regen) for food. Remember that on your 1H/S bar, with Defensive Posture slotted and Bound Aegis/Armaments active, you can block a TON of damage.

Liofa

Hello again!

I'll reply to both comments' questions in here.

1- You gain the one of the two resources from popping an orb. Stamina or Magicka. An Orb will give you whichever is higher. A luminous Shard will give 4k of the higher stat and 2k of the lower stat.

2- Triune is overall the best one for jewelry. There is one more thing that you probably want to have. It is mostly for self survival purposes. Infused jewelry with Potion Cooldown Reduction enchants. You use Lingering Health + Vitality potions while these are equipped and you'll have 70%+ uptime on the Major Vitality which will boost pretty much everything. I always carry 3 sets of jewelry on me. 3 of triune, 3 infused and 3 swift. Swift is for 4 man stuff.

3- I prefer 7 Heavy. The difference between 7 Heavy and 5/1/1 is about 2-2.5k resistances and the sustain difference is very small. Undaunted passive and Heavy Armour passive are basically same so you don't lose or gain Health, it stays the same. You do get 4% on your Magicka and Stamina but as a tank those won't be over 20k so the 4% is a really small number in this case. Honestly, use whatever you want. Difference is so small, it's not even noticable.

4- Ultimate Cost Reduction passives are multiplicative. Even though it seems very nice to have 181 cost Warhorn, it is good to keep in mind that you lose benefit from these passives when stacked together. For example, Dragon is 15% and Sorcerer passive is also 15%. So you would have 30% if they were additive and it would result in 175 Ultimate cost but you have 181. Again, it is a small difference but still good to keep in mind.

5- I don't recommend using Shields at all while tanking in PvE. They have no resistances so they take full damage. The only way to reduce the damage they take is applying Maim, having protection and CP. So all your Resistance values are ignored while you have a shield up. Another important thing is, multiplying a small number will still result in a small number. It only benefits the user if you boost your best stats.

GimpyPorcupine

Regarding the Clanfear; I actually think it's more useful for the 8% bonus to max health via the Expert Summoner passive than it is for the heal, which is very expensive. But it ties up slots on both bars.

Keep a Daedric Summoning skill on both bars so you always have the +20% Health and Stamina regen via the Daedric Protection passive. Most useful ones for you will be Hardened Ward, Bound Aegis, and Storm Atronach. The Greater Atronach lasts longer, but with my Ultimate setup above, I can keep 100% uptime even on Charged, which has an occasional AoE Shock damage for an additional chance at Concussed and Disintegrate.

In addition to the self heals from Surge, you'll also get self heals from Blood Magic, so you don't really need the heal from the clanfear. At 35k max health, hitting someone with Encase/Cage/Mines will heal you for 2800.

erlewine

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

Jaimeh

Liofa wrote: »

Hello again!

I'll reply to both comments' questions in here.

1- You gain the one of the two resources from popping an orb. Stamina or Magicka. An Orb will give you whichever is higher. A luminous Shard will give 4k of the higher stat and 2k of the lower stat.

2- Triune is overall the best one for jewelry. There is one more thing that you probably want to have. It is mostly for self survival purposes. Infused jewelry with Potion Cooldown Reduction enchants. You use Lingering Health + Vitality potions while these are equipped and you'll have 70%+ uptime on the Major Vitality which will boost pretty much everything. I always carry 3 sets of jewelry on me. 3 of triune, 3 infused and 3 swift. Swift is for 4 man stuff.

3- I prefer 7 Heavy. The difference between 7 Heavy and 5/1/1 is about 2-2.5k resistances and the sustain difference is very small. Undaunted passive and Heavy Armour passive are basically same so you don't lose or gain Health, it stays the same. You do get 4% on your Magicka and Stamina but as a tank those won't be over 20k so the 4% is a really small number in this case. Honestly, use whatever you want. Difference is so small, it's not even noticable.

4- Ultimate Cost Reduction passives are multiplicative. Even though it seems very nice to have 181 cost Warhorn, it is good to keep in mind that you lose benefit from these passives when stacked together. For example, Dragon is 15% and Sorcerer passive is also 15%. So you would have 30% if they were additive and it would result in 175 Ultimate cost but you have 181. Again, it is a small difference but still good to keep in mind.

5- I don't recommend using Shields at all while tanking in PvE. They have no resistances so they take full damage. The only way to reduce the damage they take is applying Maim, having protection and CP. So all your Resistance values are ignored while you have a shield up. Another important thing is, multiplying a small number will still result in a small number. It only benefits the user if you boost your best stats.

@Liofa Hello, and thanks again for all the answers! I didn't know the ulti passives worked like that, thanks for the heads up--it's something to take into consideration. Though I wasn't only thinking about it in terms of WH, but also Barrier, for instances with a lof of incoming damage, like some fights in vet dungeons. I guess it's not worth dedicating a 5-piece set solely for the reduction. Also, it's too bad to hear about the shields; when I started thinking about sorc tanking, I had ideas about shield-stacking, but I didn't factor in the bit about resistances, because I didn't know they worked this way: so is it that if I have a shield that absorbs 20k damage and I have 15k resistances, and the incoming damage is 25k, I will receive 5k damage in the end with the shield up? I'm not sure I'm understanding this properlty. Good to know about the traits--since I have only one Alkosh set at the moment, I guess I will go for Triune over Infused, because I'm not planning on tanking difficult fights in the beginning, so survivability will hopefully not be a big concern.

erlewine

Yes, while you have shield up every attack hits you as if you have 0 physical/spell resistance, and bypasses block (while still consuming the stamina from a normal block) until the shield is depleted, then the remaining damage is properly mitigated.

Jaimeh

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Regarding the Clanfear; I actually think it's more useful for the 8% bonus to max health via the Expert Summoner passive than it is for the heal, which is very expensive. But it ties up slots on both bars.

Keep a Daedric Summoning skill on both bars so you always have the +20% Health and Stamina regen via the Daedric Protection passive. Most useful ones for you will be Hardened Ward, Bound Aegis, and Storm Atronach. The Greater Atronach lasts longer, but with my Ultimate setup above, I can keep 100% uptime even on Charged, which has an occasional AoE Shock damage for an additional chance at Concussed and Disintegrate.

In addition to the self heals from Surge, you'll also get self heals from Blood Magic, so you don't really need the heal from the clanfear. At 35k max health, hitting someone with Encase/Cage/Mines will heal you for 2800.

Thanks for explaining the bar set-up, I'll try to do them with the passives in mind, but I agree: having the pet on both bars is a bit restricting. I like the idea of a lighting staff on the back bar, not only for Concussion, but because I find it easier to HA with it, than with other staves, and I can also use Crushing Shock to interrupt without bashing.

Jaimeh

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

I will keep this in mind, great to know, thank you!

Jaimeh

erlewine wrote: »

Yes, while you have shield up every attack hits you as if you have 0 physical/spell resistance, and bypasses block (while still consuming the stamina from a normal block) until the shield is depleted, then the remaining damage is properly mitigated.

Cheers for clearing that up @erlewine! Do you happen know if this applies to the shield from the Barrier ultimate as well?

erlewine

Yes, all damage shields.

jypcy

Jaimeh wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

1. Tanks in general are more of a hybrid. Not to say specializing won’t work, but because most builds use both resource pools, it’s good to make sure you have enough of each. The general recommendation is about 20k pools each for stamina and magicka, and about 35k pool for health.
2. Dark deal and encase are good mentions. Also, the clanfear is your health-based heal. It’s not necessarily useful (takes up two bar slots, might need to be resummoned, and is very expensive) but good to know nonetheless. Crit surge is another powerful heal for you. Not good for a big panic heal, but can be a very good heal over time (HoT). Lightning form/its morphs give you resistance buffs and also are a good way to draw aggro from large groups because they’re aoes that move with you. The shield skill is based on your magicka, not health, so probably won’t be all that useful for you if you do build hybrid.
3. Tank sets are pretty standard across classes. Idk if you need special considerations here for being a sorc, but I’m happy to offer feedback on specific sets if you have questions about them, or offer suggestions if you have something special in mind you want a set to compensate for.
4. Didn’t read this before so kind of answered above. I don’t use the pet on my sorc tank, but that doesn’t mean you can’t. Building for a high crit chance might come at the cost of more important stats, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I see surge as a fire and forget skill that’ll help keep my health up. If it starts getting lower and I need a panic heal, I use dark deal for that.
5. That’s pretty common for tanks nowadays actually, because you can use the staff’s wall of elements to help with your crusher enchant’s uptime. I wouldn’t recommend trying to dish out uber damage with the staff, though; think of it as a utility weapon for your tank.

@jypcy Thank you very much for your input, this is very helpful! I did have a build in mind, though it's not benefiting the group like Ebon and Alkosh, but I was thinking of something like Akaviri Dragonguard, because paired with the sorc passives for lower cost ultis, I could perhaps cast WHs more frequently. One question about shields: since they won't be that big due to small magicka pool, do you think it'd be worth it to put points into Bastion to boost it a bit? Again, thanks a lot for your help!

Liofa covered your questions well and I agree. For example, I have a setup on my sorc tank that uses dragonguard and potentates, plus bloodspawn and perfect asylum 2h. But this is mostly for kicks and giggles and to see if I could. It works, but it’s not a gear combo I’d necessarily recommend for general tanking, especially because of the diminishing returns on the ulti cost reduction. Something you could consider for a more sorc-oriented build would be storm knight’s plate, and/or something that covers whatever mundus stone you would’ve run so you can use lover instead because the implosion passive’s damage scales with max health I believe. It’s not like you’ll be doing full dps-level damage in execute, but you can contribute a fair bit to help finish enemies off while still being very tanky.

And yes, even if you spent 100 points in bastion, you’d still be left with a pretty paltry shield. Like said, I’d just avoid using it personally, or only have it slotted for the passives if you want those.

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

Keep in mind that this changes this month (as I’ve heard it), that the elemental blockade will now only proc whatever enchant is on your staff, and you’ll have to proc the enchant on your 1h by dealing damage with a 1h/shield attack.

MashmalloMan

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

With the wolfhunter patch around the corner, I'd advise against this. Blockade will proc the enchantment it has attached to it's weapon it was cast from instead of updating with the bar your on. Plus only dmg enchantments go off from the hits of your blockade, berserk and crusher require light/heavy attacks.

What people may start doing is crusher infused mainhand (same setup) and shock infused backbar shock blockade. As long as your blockade is up you will proc the shock enchantment every 2 seconds.

MashmalloMan

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

Charged trait will only work while you are on that bar, it will not carry over to the front bar, do you really want charged for 2-3 seconds in a rotation?

Woops, sorry double post.

erlewine

Marshall1289 wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

Charged trait will only work while you are on that bar, it will not carry over to the front bar, do you really want charged for 2-3 seconds in a rotation?

Woops, sorry double post.

That's the point. With Charged it pushes the Concuss proc chance of Shock glyph over 100%. For a bar you'll only be on for a second or two, it's ideal.

erlewine

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Plus only dmg enchantments go off from the hits of your blockade, berserk and crusher require light/heavy attacks.

Not true. Blockade does proc Crusher. The only ones it doesnt proc is glyphs that give buffs. Easily testable - please try to avoid posting disinformation.

Samsgaard

@OP - Be aware that most of the builds and advice that you will see in these forums and elsewhere is aimed at tanking trials, and usually vet trials (hardmode). You mention that you are relatively new at tanking, that currently you are just aiming to tank dungeons, and that you didn't enjoy tanking dungeons on a DK. So my answers will aim at helping you find a sorc tank build that is more than adequate for dungeons, is fun to play, and is within reach (gear-wise) for someone who is just starting out and does not already have drops from raids or the newest/hardest dungeons.

I'll focus on the "shock tank" as opposed to "pet tanks" and other sorc tank variants.

1) ATTRIBUTES:

(a) Health: With a decent (not necessarily expert) group, I've found it possible to complete most vet HM dungeons with 32k health. That's even been enough to solo normal dungeons and parts of vet dungeons (the latter usually beat me at some point with anti-solo-play mechanics). 35k health might be better for the toughest dungeons and for starting out until you get comfortable with your skills, the mechanics of particular fights, and your gear choices. After 32-35k health, get as much magicka and stamina as you can, with stamina a few K higher. You want large pools of both resources. Why?

(b) Magicka: You need magicka to keep Surge, Lightning Form, Liquid Lightning, and Elemental Blockade up 100% of the time (and do some some decent damage with them), while also having magicka in reserve to Dark Deal for health and stamina in a pinch. You also need magicka for Encase if you run with that (I can't remember if there's a stam morph of it).

(b) You need stamina for your two sword skills (taunt and slash), as well as to block, roll, and break free. In some fights you may also need stamina to reposition yourself or a mob, either with sprint, shield charge or chains (Silver Leash). You also need stamina if you use Caltrops.

2) THINGS THAT SET THE SHOCK TANK APART, for me at least, compared to when I tank with other classes:

(a) On the positive side: As mentioned in other posts above, outstanding (and virtually passive) self-healing, and terrific sustain. Indeed, the two are related; because you can passively heal through a lot of damage, you can afford to heavy attack often and not be at much risk from not blocking. Constant AOE dps (three at all times, can slot as many as eight and still tank). A great balance of self-sufficient durability and being able to help kill things directly. No need to re-spec (at least, not much) for solo activity. The shock tank tanks, for sure, but also melts stuff. Can carry groups with low dps and inconsistent heals for the tank. Great for helping lower level players with WBs, public dungeons, etc.

(b) On the negative side: Not stacking health means less margin of safety when things go really wrong. Little to no utility for the group; players who expect constant shields (as from a DK) or heals (as from NBs/templars/even wardens) aren't going to get them from you. No game-changing debuff to apply to mobs like the DK's AOE fire damage debuff. This is the trade-off for basically being another damage-dealer in the group.

3) GEAR

(a) Crafted: Shacklebreaker is perfect. The crafting station in Vvardenfell is easily reached from a wayshine in the far north of the island. For a second crafted set, I'd go with Torug's or Twice Born Star. Both are easy to reach, but Torug's is easier to discover (TBS is in central Craglorn), and requires less crafting ability. Fortified Brass is an option if you want to be extra-sturdy while learning, but ditch it when you're experienced.

(b) World drops: Thunderbug is good for this build. You farm it in Malabar Tor. Nothing else that drops in open world play has every really caught my eye.

(c) Dungeon drops: Ebon (ahem, Ebon Armory) is a staple in raids because the 5-piece bonus gives you and everyone else +1K health. That +health also has side benefits for DKs and wardens (not sure about NB/templar). But in a four-man dungeon, on a shock tank, I feel it's a waste. On the other hand, it kind of screams "pro" to a lot of people if they see that you have it, and the 3k health and +% healing that you personally get from it could free you up to make other choices with enchants and CPs. Also, you can walk right into a raid with it. It drops in Crypt of Hearts, so it's not that hard to get. Other than Ebon, there's not much to recommend in the way of dungeon drops. Undaunted Bastion is intriguing, but you should aspire not to need that proc very often. I'm going to try Netch's Touch as soon as I have a few more pieces and see if I can get away with it. Both are in easy dungeons (Elden Hollow and Darkshade Caverns).

(d) Monster sets: Not something to worry about for a while. That said, from non-DLC dungeons (which are generally easier, not to mention, free to all players), I'd suggest Iceheart for defense, Swarm Mother for crowd control, and Storm Fist and Tremorscale for DPS and fun. Nice thing about Iceheart is that it procs on crits, just like Surge, so it fits the "crit tank" theme. However, I've just traded Iceheart for Ilambris and am going to see if I can get away with it. There's been a noticeable but not fatal drop-off in sturdiness without the fairly-high-uptime, no-resource-cost shield; but the fights go faster and are more fun with Ilambris lightning strikes.

4) CRIT RATING

I have about 30% physical and spell crit, with the Thief mundus stone. This is usually sufficient to proc Surge every second (or whatever it really is with lag) because of all the AOEs constantly firing plus whatever active attacks I'm doing. 30%/30% is also good for uptime on the Iceheart proc. But the proc rate of Surge and Iceheart can slow down in single-target fights, especially when the target moves around.

5) WEAPON BARS

a) Front bar/back bar: Yeah, S&B front bar, destro staff on back bar - no question. Destro staff allows you to heavy attack for magicka regen (which, if necessary, you can then Dark Deal for health and stamina) and to put down Elemental Blockade. It also allows you to slot the destro staff ultimate. My back bar is Surge, Lightning Form, Elemental Blockade, Dark Deal, flex spot (usually Retreating Maneuvers) and the staff ultimate. Hard to give up that ulti up once you've "made it rain" on a room full of mobs, but I've been meaning to try to get back into Overload, at least for soloing. Negate might be a better option for dungeons. (Of course, if you're going to use War Horn at all times, there's no second-ulti choice to make.)

b) Which destro staff? I've always had a lightning staff. It was nice when it became meta. I'm not going to give it up now that it's not meta. And I have other toons for frost staff tanking. But if you're into meta, you can't argue with this: frost staff allows you to (i) taunt while heavy attacking on the back bar for magicka regen, (ii) block well on the back bar when you miss a cue and may not have time to swap to the front bar to block, (iii) taunt from range without slotting the Undaunted skill, and (iv) slow stuff down with Elemental Blockade.

Again, this version of the shock tank concept is all about playing to some of the strengths of the sorcerer's class skills (mainly the Storm Calling line), breezing through open world content, and having fun dishing out damage in dungeons while still getting the tanking job done. It's not about trying to replicate tanking on another class, and it's not about raids. For raids, check out the raid-optimized recommendations in the thread mentioned above!

MashmalloMan

erlewine wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Lightning staff on back bar is viable for an extra avenue for Concussed/Minor Vulnerability/Off Balance. Go with Charged trait, and use Elemental Blockade. Put a Crushing glyph on it. Make sure you keep your Liquid Lightning down and Boundless Storm up for extra chances at Implode/Disintegrate.

I would suggest Charged Shock glyph on your Lightning staff backbar, so that it is guaranteed to apply Concussion/Off Balance to your first target every time you cast Blockade and/or swap to your backbar. Then put Infused Crusher on your S/B mainhand, so that every tick of BLockade procs your Infused Crusher while on your main bar.

Charged trait will only work while you are on that bar, it will not carry over to the front bar, do you really want charged for 2-3 seconds in a rotation?

Woops, sorry double post.

That's the point. With Charged it pushes the Concuss proc chance of Shock glyph over 100%. For a bar you'll only be on for a second or two, it's ideal.

Sorry your right, crusher procs from blockade/endless hail like weapon dmg enchants. Your off with the chance proc. It's a high chance, but it isn't over 100% chance to proc off just the enchantment, it's 84%.

• 20% chance to proc (baseline)
• Elemental Force passive buffs the baseline chance by 100%. 20 * 2.0 = 40% (increase of 20%)
• Charged buffs the baseline chance by an additional 220%. 20 * 3.2 = 64% (increase of 44%)
• 20% + 20% + 44% = 84%

Same math applies for boundless storm/blockade/liquid lightning, but the base is 1% per hit. 5.2% with charged staff.

With Wolfhunter patch, you will not proc your main bar enchantment using blockade where crusher is enchanted, it will proc the shock enchantment off of the staff on the backbar. Charged trait is only active when using the weapon it's on.

When you switch to front bar you lose charged and destro staff passive so your chances would look like this.

• Shock enchantment (4sec cd) 20% front bar (requires blockade to be active). 84% back bar.
• Blockade (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 5.2% back bar.
• Boundless Storm (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 5.2% back bar.
• Liquid Lightning (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 5.2% back bar.

If you had infused staff you will get:

• Shock enchantment (2sec cd - requires blockade to be active) 20% chance . 40% back bar.
• Blockade (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 2% back bar
• Boundless Storm (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 2% back bar.
• Liquid Lightning (1sec cd) 1% front bar. 2% back bar.

I'm curious what would result in higher uptime on concussed, it looks like that that short time on back bar with charged would help it proc reliably anytime you switched to back bar. Concussed has a 4second buff and blockade is 8sec long. If you focus on keeping blockade active 24/7 you could reliably get the concussed status effect about 50% of the time, there are still chances to proc without charged, albeit pretty low.

Infused will give you double the uptime on your shock enchantment and a little more dmg. Overall it would give you more dps, but give the group less concussed, therefore less group dps. It shouldn't give that much less though, because infused makes the CD 2 seconds instead of 4 seconds on the shock enchant and even with no amps it is your highest chance to proc concussed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=St5v-bMeGDc

Tasear

From what I understand,

There's a few ways to build a Sorc tank. The important thing is how are you going to sustain and how much of a hit you can take if you make a mistake. Some people sustain via heavy attacks, some through shields + regain, some through ultimates, even frost and shield and sword swapping. The average tank has 35k health unless building for a health tank. Have a wway to self heal is sustain arrives, sure is nice, along twilight or clanfear, and vigor if you are stamina based.There's a lot of flexibility to it.

Also still working on mine but here it is
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78878

Jaimeh

@Samsgaard Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this, especially the part about the pros/cons, it's exactly what I was looking for I think I have the same idea about sorc tanking as you, in that I understand it might not be the best class for a group in terms of utility, or even the damage it can comfortably take, but that it's fun to play for those who don't like DK tanking. My main is a sorc DD, so I'll hopefully enjoy the role more if I'm able to do some damage, which is what I'm familiar with. Thanks for the gear suggestions as well; I have some pieces of the most popular tanking sets from drops I kept when playing with my other toons, and I can farm the rest if need be, that's not so much of an issue, but since I only plan to do dungeons, I'm not worried about gear so much. It'd be nice to eventually off-tank trials in the future, but the prospect seems scary right now The build I had in mind was Akaviri Dragonguard+Footman+Engine Guardian as it seems safe, but I don't think it plays to the sorc's strengths like for eg. Thunderbug as you mentioned above. In any case, I do have some sets I can try out and see how I fare. Thanks again for all the advice!

Jaimeh

Tasear wrote: »

From what I understand,

There's a few ways to build a Sorc tank. The important thing is how are you going to sustain and how much of a hit you can take if you make a mistake. Some people sustain via heavy attacks, some through shields + regain, some through ultimates, even frost and shield and sword swapping. The average tank has 35k health unless building for a health tank. Have a wway to self heal is sustain arrives, sure is nice, along twilight or clanfear, and vigor if you are stamina based.There's a lot of flexibility to it.

Also still working on mine but here it is
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78878

I just checked out your build, thank you for sharing it! I think it's a very smart idea, and it will probably generate ultimate really quickly. I'd have to look into getting the Asylum weapon and the jewels, but I'd love to try it out. Is being a vampire essential? I'm worried about being a vamp on my tank, at least until I know what I'm doing

GimpyPorcupine

Lots of good info in this thread. Has me thinking I need to re-spec my Main (Breton) back to tanking, just because it's so fun.

A lot of people mentioning the short time on back bar, but I don't agree. I find I spend a lot of time on my shock staff doing heavy attacks for regen and for the AoE damage, as an additional chance at the Implosion/Disintegrate proc. That bar has Inner Rage on it to taunt the flyers and ranged, for whom I don't have a pull and have to rely on keeping focused on me. (I could slot Leash for this, I guess, but that would get expensive on stam.)

Although my PVP build (which I sometimes tank dungeons with) uses Shalk's, it's pretty worthless for PVE where Minor Heroism is kept up via Heroic Slash.

@Jaimeh , you mentioned Barrier, but if I'm reading the coefficients right (https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php), it's going to be pretty weak because of your low stat/power numbers. Leave the Barrier to the healer. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Aggressive Horn is great if you know your group has good crit %, but if you're going to PUG, it's hit-or-miss. For me, 8 seconds of Major Berserk from the Atronach synergy vs. 8 seconds Major Force from Aggressive Horn, I'll take the Atronach. Just make sure to coach the DD's to use it.

jypcy

Time spent on either bar will likely matter less for tanks next patch, too. Previously it wasn’t great to stay on your bar without your crusher enchant because you risk that constantly falling off. But with you being able to proc your offbar enchant now, so long as you have something keeping your enchants up on either bar, you can more or less spend as much time on either as you choose to.

Sorry that I’m not addressing everything that’s come up in the thread, but I’ll try to hit a few more recent points:
-Vampire tends not to matter as much to a tank because you already should have fairly high mitigation. Same idea as with the shield and bastion star: multiplying a small amount, even by as much as 25%, will still be a fairly small amount. And the passives are really quite worth the small extra damage. Dps/heals have less mitigation, so it’s a more significant cost to them (and yet still worth it often enough).
-I believe Porcupine is right about barrier. Sure it’ll be a bigger shield than the hardened ward would give you, but there’s still probably a more effective ultimate you can use. Storm atro is a good choice for the major berserk buff, and overload is another unique option for sorcs (not to actually spend your ultimate on it, but because it enables you to slot up to 5 additional skills). If you use a pet or pets, this could be a good way to increase your bar space to compensate for the slots lost to the pet.

GimpyPorcupine

Another suggestion, which I haven't tried yet because I haven't sorc-tanked post-Summerset, but slot but don't use Temporal Guard ultimate on one bar just for the Minor Protection, and slot Deep Thoughts on the other. You'll have the free damage shield on both from Concentrated Barrier passive, and the Deliberation passive will give Major Protection while meditating to restore resources. With that, you may be able to get rid of Dark Deal entirely.

raj72616a

do you have a regular team, do you only group with good players, or do you use group finder to play with random people, who might queue up as dps but deal 10k dps or less?

some ppl on this board despise PUG so their advice might not take non optimal situations into account.

sorc has terribly strong self heal from Critical Surge. the heal is strong and it's easy to keep 100% up time on Surge + Hurricane, so you can afford to play with less health and more stam/mag, and deal higher damage. you can tank most of the vet dungeons with around 20k health or a little less (not the DLC ones tho, except WGT).
going full stamina, main bar sword and shield, back bar dualwield or bow is viable. bow has plenty of damage over time skills, you can switch to bow to stack endless hail poison injection and acid spray when you are not blocking. and going full stamina makes blocking roll dodging breaking free easier.
going magicka is great too. you get a strong damage shield that scales to your max magicka, and a burst heal from pet. i myself find it hard to play with a small stamina pool tho. you would be stunned, knocked down, feared etc when you run out of stamina, and no amount of damage shield can save you if that happens. so if you are interested to try a damage dealing tank, stam sorc would be easier.

Tasear

Jaimeh wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

From what I understand,

There's a few ways to build a Sorc tank. The important thing is how are you going to sustain and how much of a hit you can take if you make a mistake. Some people sustain via heavy attacks, some through shields + regain, some through ultimates, even frost and shield and sword swapping. The average tank has 35k health unless building for a health tank. Have a wway to self heal is sustain arrives, sure is nice, along twilight or clanfear, and vigor if you are stamina based.There's a lot of flexibility to it.

Also still working on mine but here it is
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78878

I just checked out your build, thank you for sharing it! I think it's a very smart idea, and it will probably generate ultimate really quickly. I'd have to look into getting the Asylum weapon and the jewels, but I'd love to try it out. Is being a vampire essential? I'm worried about being a vamp on my tank, at least until I know what I'm doing

My idea was having 100 regain in all 3 resources when I picked orc. Also damage reduction other 50 sounded nice with bound aegis. The jelwery I just went on tamieral trade center and got for cheap. Overall, I wanted something to show case something special went sorc and I think this does nicely by playing off the cost reduction Sorcs already have. For different situations you could switch weapons + jelwery out.

jypcy

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Another suggestion, which I haven't tried yet because I haven't sorc-tanked post-Summerset, but slot but don't use Temporal Guard ultimate on one bar just for the Minor Protection, and slot Deep Thoughts on the other. You'll have the free damage shield on both from Concentrated Barrier passive, and the Deliberation passive will give Major Protection while meditating to restore resources. With that, you may be able to get rid of Dark Deal entirely.

I wouldn’t personally get rid of dark deal because if you’re not using pets, it’s probably the best self burst heal you can get as sorc tank (I think the tooltip is like 6-7k?). But, while I like having the ability to burst heal myself, it’s not a necessity. You might find you never need it with your hots, or you might regularly play with a healer whom you can rely on. Just my 2 cents about it