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MMR is killing BGs for me, and maybe you too

  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
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    This post is officially a year old. Imagine having such a huge flaw in a large aspect of your game that’s been neglected for over a year. Yikes.

    I can’t que solo on my magblade and get a game under 10 minutes. It’s ridiculous.
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    I tried to solo queue up with my old StamSorc. Still waited over16 minutes for a match. Granted, that toon has thousands upon thousands upon thousands of BG matches under his belt.

    Luckily, I had a twinky level 46 MagSorc that’s been collecting dust for a while. So I just leveled him up a bit more and made him my new StamSorc.

    Average queue wait is about 3 minutes.
    Edited by ChunkyCat on August 27, 2019 4:25PM
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The worst thing about full premade group is that they have double advantage.
    • They start 4 players and the other teams is highly possible that start with 3 players. It means that in the first 3-4 minutes the result can be easily 100+ points for them
    • They know each other

    Recently I had a few BGs where my teammates put false occlusions that one of the other teams were a premade. Some of them even left the BG and once we get one better player we even turn the score. I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.
    Because I can!
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Bashev wrote: »
    I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

    This is definitely a thing. I've been with three random and utterly steamrolled the other teams many times before. I'm not saying the matchmaking system is in good shape by any means, but you can't blame all of your lopsided defeats on premades.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    All you can do is take a break. There are a lot of good solo queuers so if they’re queuing a lot you’ll get them over and over again and can dominate. Sometimes you’re thrown against the same teams with weak team mates and it really sucks.

    If you go on a winning streak against good teams it’s usually really fun pvp because everyone’s good, those games are what makes pvp fun because you’re always on your toes. If you’re getting demolished there’s nothing that can be done so I take a break and hope stronger random players are queuing up when I do.

    I haven’t done as many BGs since the patch, and think there are some like me who feel survivability nerfs promote teamwork too much for solo queuing. I imagine it’s a lot worse recently.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • BaiterOfZergs
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    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The system is somehow designed to think you can carry them. And then there’s times they throw you into games that you have no business being in.
    Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Bashev wrote: »
    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The worst thing about full premade group is that they have double advantage.
    • They start 4 players and the other teams is highly possible that start with 3 players. It means that in the first 3-4 minutes the result can be easily 100+ points for them
    • They know each other

    Recently I had a few BGs where my teammates put false occlusions that one of the other teams were a premade. Some of them even left the BG and once we get one better player we even turn the score. I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

    Add the fact that premades can guarantee that they'll have a vital role filled in their group, such as a healer or a CC-bot.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    The ability to coordinate a disengage and then to reeengage as a third party to kill steal the other two teams whilst they’re engaged with each other is the greatest advantage of a premade.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • ecru
    ecru
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    queue times are too long and the resulting games aren't worth it. every game is a frustrating struggle as a solo queuer against a premade. it isn't fun and i haven't played in awhile because of it. the last time i tried to pvp i queued at like 11pm EST, and didn't get a queue after 15 minutes, so i just logged.
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Bgs so boring nowdays that I dont even miss them.
    Matchmaking is terrible: It either go solo - and be farmed by premades; or go as premade - and farm soloers, and only super rarely get against other premade that also ending as them rage-quiting match because they cant easy farm AP on randoms. And for that you also have to wait 30+min.
    Seems nothing to do till next update that that should fix lfg system (hard to belive in it tho).
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    Why should people who are far lower MMR have to play against you for YOUR benefit?
  • SpiderCultist
    SpiderCultist
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    I've always wondered: is your account being taken into consideration to calculate MMR or it's calculated per character ?
    PC | EU
    Ashlander and Mephala worshipper.
    "You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter."
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    I've always wondered: is your account being taken into consideration to calculate MMR or it's calculated per character ?

    Character
    Because I can!
  • Delparis
    Delparis
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    20 min of queue just to face premades with your random team.
    just lol
  • Rahar
    Rahar
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    Ready for this?

    I'll fix MMR with one simple change...........................

    Let it decay over time. If you don't play for a while, you lose a chunk of MMR.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    Bashev wrote: »
    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The worst thing about full premade group is that they have double advantage.
    • They start 4 players and the other teams is highly possible that start with 3 players. It means that in the first 3-4 minutes the result can be easily 100+ points for them
    • They know each other

    Recently I had a few BGs where my teammates put false occlusions that one of the other teams were a premade. Some of them even left the BG and once we get one better player we even turn the score. I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

    If only this was something available to all players....
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    Bashev wrote: »
    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The worst thing about full premade group is that they have double advantage.
    • They start 4 players and the other teams is highly possible that start with 3 players. It means that in the first 3-4 minutes the result can be easily 100+ points for them
    • They know each other

    Recently I had a few BGs where my teammates put false occlusions that one of the other teams were a premade. Some of them even left the BG and once we get one better player we even turn the score. I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

    If only this was something available to all players....

    It works both ways, my dude.

    1. Not everyone has friends or guildies on at the times they play, that they can queue up with. Grouping shouldn't be a prerequisite for having fun, when the match maker allows you to solo queue.

    2. Not everyone wants to get that sweaty, whether by playing in a coordinated premade themselves, or going up against other premades. As above, grouping shouldn't be a prerequisite for having fun.

    3. Not everyone wants to wait a half hour in queue to get a 10-15 minute match. Due to MMR inflation of groups, premades have far longer queue times than anybody else.

    4. Not everyone wants to wait that long, only to get in a match against solo queues, turning that match into a mosh pit of baby seal clubbing. Premades have the exact same problem as solo queues in this regard, except their on the opposite end. Nobody wins.

    Actually separating groups from solo queues in ways that aren't just inflating the groups' MMR would go a long way towards helping out both parties. Everybody I've seen who plays high MMR BGs, as both solo queues and premades, say the exact same thing -- separation has to happen, having them combined in the same queue in a way that allows them to match together kills the match for both parties.
  • Goregrinder
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    red_emu wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why the queue system always manages to find 2 pre-mades and the random group I end up in has 3 very inexperienced players for whom this is the first ever BG?

    How does that make sense? Is my MMR so high, that ZOS thinks I can take on 8 pre made pros who have been practicing for months, playing over Comms etc? It always ends up the same way. The 3 newbs run around like headless chickens trying to solo other groups and they just die over and over till they quit.

    Sometimes I can do 15 BGs in a row and get only one match without pre-mades or one where there is at least one more person in my team with high MMR.

    It is not fair to be punished just for being gut? I think the pre-mades need to stop or have a separate queue. It's a weird design of a game that punishes you, the more you play it.

    The worst thing about full premade group is that they have double advantage.
    • They start 4 players and the other teams is highly possible that start with 3 players. It means that in the first 3-4 minutes the result can be easily 100+ points for them
    • They know each other

    Recently I had a few BGs where my teammates put false occlusions that one of the other teams were a premade. Some of them even left the BG and once we get one better player we even turn the score. I start to believe that a lot of inexperienced players think that every group that stick together is a premade.

    If only this was something available to all players....

    It works both ways, my dude.

    1. Not everyone has friends or guildies on at the times they play, that they can queue up with. Grouping shouldn't be a prerequisite for having fun, when the match maker allows you to solo queue.

    2. Not everyone wants to get that sweaty, whether by playing in a coordinated premade themselves, or going up against other premades. As above, grouping shouldn't be a prerequisite for having fun.

    3. Not everyone wants to wait a half hour in queue to get a 10-15 minute match. Due to MMR inflation of groups, premades have far longer queue times than anybody else.

    4. Not everyone wants to wait that long, only to get in a match against solo queues, turning that match into a mosh pit of baby seal clubbing. Premades have the exact same problem as solo queues in this regard, except their on the opposite end. Nobody wins.

    Actually separating groups from solo queues in ways that aren't just inflating the groups' MMR would go a long way towards helping out both parties. Everybody I've seen who plays high MMR BGs, as both solo queues and premades, say the exact same thing -- separation has to happen, having them combined in the same queue in a way that allows them to match together kills the match for both parties.

    And why should other people be penalized for you choosing not to make "friends" or join an active PVP guild? That's YOUR choice if you want to play solo and not want to coordinate with 3 other humans. You can either have your cake, or you can eat it. Pick one.
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    BGs are a huge mess right now......here are the most common scenarios:

    1. The BG doesn’t start at all...infinite queue

    2. It starts but the minimum number of players is not reached... deserter penalty

    3. You end up against invincible premades....not great fun

    4. Every so often you are lucky enough to get a balanced match where the winners cannot be guessed after the first 15 seconds

    No idea how this could actually happen but I sooooo wish ZOS could give us more of option 4!!!!
  • Strider__Roshin
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    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Daus wrote: »
    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.

    Are you real? Get rid of MMR? I have the feeling that ZoS already got rid of it and now the games are not balanced at all. Players dies like flies and only 10% of my games are somehow balanced. At least the AP is really nice when the queue are instant.
    Because I can!
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    Bashev wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.

    Are you real? Get rid of MMR? I have the feeling that ZoS already got rid of it and now the games are not balanced at all. Players dies like flies and only 10% of my games are somehow balanced. At least the AP is really nice when the queue are instant.

    Yes, get rid of it. If you want some kind of skilled based match making system that influences the leaderboards then fine, but make it a separate queue rather than the default. Call it "Competitive" or something similar to that.
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Daus wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.

    Are you real? Get rid of MMR? I have the feeling that ZoS already got rid of it and now the games are not balanced at all. Players dies like flies and only 10% of my games are somehow balanced. At least the AP is really nice when the queue are instant.

    Yes, get rid of it. If you want some kind of skilled based match making system that influences the leaderboards then fine, but make it a separate queue rather than the default. Call it "Competitive" or something similar to that.

    You dont get my point. I want to play for fun and if zos separate the queue and add competitve mode I will have to wait 20 minutes there.

    Then of course I will queue for all these games without MMR and wreck ppl. I doubt it will be much fun for them neither for me. I can show you my latest 30 games in BGs when I back from work. I won probably 28 of them with results 500 -100 -100. In some games I can go solo vs 3-4 ppl and kill them. As I said this is not fun for these poor ppl.
    Because I can!
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    I guess it just depends on how the stats are calculated....10k points in 5 matches and 10k reached over 50 matches cannot be treated in the same way!!!
    This is based on the assumption that the data is calculated in crude terms
  • Goregrinder
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    Daus wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.

    Are you real? Get rid of MMR? I have the feeling that ZoS already got rid of it and now the games are not balanced at all. Players dies like flies and only 10% of my games are somehow balanced. At least the AP is really nice when the queue are instant.

    Yes, get rid of it. If you want some kind of skilled based match making system that influences the leaderboards then fine, but make it a separate queue rather than the default. Call it "Competitive" or something similar to that.

    So you only want to play against players lower skilled players huh?
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Daus wrote: »
    Bashev wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    1. Separate queues between premade and solo queues.
    2. No more than one of each class on a team.
    3. Get rid of MMR.

    That's what I would do if I was in charge.

    Not enough of a PvP population? Well who's fault is that? Guess they need to stop being prideful and own up to the fact that what they've been doing hasn't been working.

    Are you real? Get rid of MMR? I have the feeling that ZoS already got rid of it and now the games are not balanced at all. Players dies like flies and only 10% of my games are somehow balanced. At least the AP is really nice when the queue are instant.

    Yes, get rid of it. If you want some kind of skilled based match making system that influences the leaderboards then fine, but make it a separate queue rather than the default. Call it "Competitive" or something similar to that.

    8aIhlUG.jpg

    This is the situation right now without a proper MMR.
    Because I can!
  • mandricus
    mandricus
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    20 kills with 480k damage only....
    In some matches I had over than 1 million, I was able to kill 2 or 3 people at most.... Why can't I get sometimes matches like this? :D
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    IMO, if it was a choice between current MMR and not having MMR at all, I'd pick not having MMR at all. Current MMR is completely garbage, ranking based off time played instead of actual skill level, with group matching directly woven into it which allows premades to match against solo queues. It's as if ZoS looked at how other games do their MMR systems, and used those as a guide on what not to do.

    Ideally, MMR should be replaced with an alternative that actually works. Make it based off a combination of stats, so it's more indicative of actual skill level. Remove MMR inflation from groups, push group matching over to another variable in the match maker, so solo queues aren't matched against full 4-mans.
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