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Soul Magic Talent tree and relative armor sets.
Algorax
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Hello everyone!
Since the beginning of my jurney in early 2015 i always had the feeling that the soul talent tree was kinda poor. Actually it is more than a feeling: as a matter of fact this talent has only 2 active abilities (one less than the other smallest active talent tree which is the vamp one!) and only 3 passives (only 1 or 2 of which are of some relative utility).
Talking about actives the number and utility is pretty underwhelming here:
Passives are also pretty much unworthy of attention:
Unlike other talent trees, which usually benefit of more sets, the nature of this talent tree makes it poor on this field too with the only related set being the infamous Oblivion's Foe set.
This set always was like its talent tree: worthless
For those who were not there to remember, this was the original Oblivion's foe set:
low utility on a 4 MINS cd...
Then they reworked it into this:
Please take note that the description says "abilities" which made the community belive that this set could afect the ultimate ability too, which would have been great. Obviously it was not: the set only added damage to the soul trap ability. Too bad that 2 times zero always is zero...
Finally they corrected the description with this one:
and it remained like that.
As you can see the current situation of this talent tree and its sets is disappointing, specially considering how much potential this concept could have.
I will now try, after i pointed the many faults, to provide possible solutions:
Please, let me know your toughts about how to improve this talent tree
Since the beginning of my jurney in early 2015 i always had the feeling that the soul talent tree was kinda poor. Actually it is more than a feeling: as a matter of fact this talent has only 2 active abilities (one less than the other smallest active talent tree which is the vamp one!) and only 3 passives (only 1 or 2 of which are of some relative utility).
Talking about actives the number and utility is pretty underwhelming here:
- Soul strike is a very cool ultimate for it's effect and massive damage output, but it remains highly situational and hard to obtain since it unlocks after completing the main story arc. An effort way bigger than the reward.
- Soul trap well... it is soul trap: a rabbit tossing you flowers would do more damage. Its morphs are sadly not interesting and its onlòy utility remains filling soul gems which, let's say it, are so common that i find really little reason to ever put it on my bar.
Passives are also pretty much unworthy of attention:
- Soul Shatter has such a low damage, specially considering that it triggers at only 20% remaining health with a cd of 2 MINUTES, that has little reasons to be pricked
- Soul summons is the only useful passive in this talent tree
- Soul lock is highly situational and with little use since it requires you have an empty soul gem and that you land a kill with a weapon ability AND having only 5% chance!
Unlike other talent trees, which usually benefit of more sets, the nature of this talent tree makes it poor on this field too with the only related set being the infamous Oblivion's Foe set.
This set always was like its talent tree: worthless
For those who were not there to remember, this was the original Oblivion's foe set:
low utility on a 4 MINS cd...
Then they reworked it into this:
Please take note that the description says "abilities" which made the community belive that this set could afect the ultimate ability too, which would have been great. Obviously it was not: the set only added damage to the soul trap ability. Too bad that 2 times zero always is zero...
Finally they corrected the description with this one:
and it remained like that.
As you can see the current situation of this talent tree and its sets is disappointing, specially considering how much potential this concept could have.
I will now try, after i pointed the many faults, to provide possible solutions:
- Increase the number of active skills from 2 to at least 3, a full talent tree would be advisabe to compensate the lack of interest this talent tree suffered;
- Increase the number of passives to a number related to the actives one;
- Find a proper way to lvl it up not bound to a slow, demanding, repetitive main questline;
- Modify the Soul trap ability and its morphs to actually make them worth picking, with some combat utility at least;
- Modify the Soul shatter passive to make it more effective, maybe removing the cd and making the blaswave a continuous one as long as you remain under 25% health;
- Modify the Soul Lock passive to make it useful in combat too, maybe adding a change per weapon hit to proc additional damage or triggering a minor soul beam;
- Give this talent tree proper sets, which means at least adding a specific damage increasing set like all other talent trees have, reworking the oblivion's foe one and maybe finally adding one or 2 sets with fancy effects.
Please, let me know your toughts about how to improve this talent tree
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Algorax✭✭✭✭Oh, all this UNLESS devs plan to FINALLY add a necromancer class/talent tree with simalr powers...
Edited by Algorax on August 7, 2018 12:21PM0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IDK what issue you're having with soul lock. At just 1 point in, if you have a stack of empty gems, and kill mobs using a mix of class and weapon skills, you end up with a big stack of full soul gems. I think I have just over 1K on my stamDK and most of my other characters have hundreds; I never buy any.2 -
Vivecc✭✭✭ok, so
1. no one is forced to spend points into the soulmagic tree, as no one is forced to spend points in DW or Resto staff or anything else either.
2. imo the soul trap is a very useful ability, even without any set used that accompanies this skill. It´s cool to refill your gems, give you ressources back and even in pvp you can use it to pretty good effect.
pc/eu0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »IDK what issue you're having with soul lock. At just 1 point in, if you have a stack of empty gems, and kill mobs using a mix of class and weapon skills, you end up with a big stack of full soul gems. I think I have just over 1K on my stamDK and most of my other characters have hundreds; I never buy any.
Your statement provides all the reasons it is not worth picking:- you need points to do that, soul trap does it and costs no point
- you need to land a kill with a weapon skill, so it becoms completely useless if you do not use a wep skill to sistematically kill your target, hoping that the low percentage does not ruin your expectations.
- You gain big stacks of soul gems in a contest where one accumulates so much gems that not even a soul trap is needed
Edited by Algorax on August 7, 2018 1:03PM0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭ok, so
1. no one is forced to spend points into the soulmagic tree, as no one is forced to spend points in DW or Resto staff or anything else either.
2. imo the soul trap is a very useful ability, even without any set used that accompanies this skill. It´s cool to refill your gems, give you ressources back and even in pvp you can use it to pretty good effect.
Eeeeeer.... were these sserious comments or...
Nvm, let's pretend you are serious
- The fact that one is not forced to spend points has no reason to be mentioned since this, as you stated, is something that can be said for all talent trees. The point here is that the talent tree is badly designed, poorly exploited, with so much wasted potential.
- Pvp beginner uh? No available, serious pvp build uses soultrap specially now that the nighblade's syphoning talent tree was ruined by removing the malefic grasp dot and therefore the dot based build is crippled. Oh yes, if you rely on soultrap for resource management on pvp i strongly recommend you a much more... direct game like tic-tac-toe
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Ragebull✭✭✭✭✭I use those that set and soul trap all the time. I’ve made so much gold with it, I could literally retire from trade guilds and just sell soul gems lol
Its good that they have sets and skills that are useful outside of combat. Not everything needs to be dungeon and pvp worthy. Having said that I’ve completed lots of pledges with that set and skill on, but maybe I’m just awesome :P0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
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Your statement provides all the reasons it is not worth picking:- you need points to do that, soul trap does it and costs no point
- you need to land a kill with a weapon skill, so it becoms completely useless if you do not use a wep skill to sistematically kill your target, hoping that the low percentage does not ruin your expectations.
- You gain big stacks of soul gems in a contest where one accumulates so much gems that not even a soul trap is needed
1. I agree that soul lock needs a skill point and trap does not. But trap needs an active skill slot, and bar space is far more valuable to me than skill points.
2. As long as I'm using a normal PvE rotation with a mix of skills, including weapon skill dots (blockade, endless hail, poison injection, rending slashes) it seems to work well enough, I don't make any special effort to make it work.
3. I'm confused because your point 2 seems to be that it doesn't work well, and here you're arguing that it works too well. I could sell filled gems to the vendor if I was short on gold; mostly I give the gems to my characters that do more PvP since.0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭I use those that set and soul trap all the time. I’ve made so much gold with it, I could literally retire from trade guilds and just sell soul gems lol
Its good that they have sets and skills that are useful outside of combat. Not everything needs to be dungeon and pvp worthy. Having said that I’ve completed lots of pledges with that set and skill on, but maybe I’m just awesome :P
Nah man, you just limit yourself: you admitted you do something, use sets which are proven to be disfuntional compared to other methods.
That said all soul talent tree's perks and abilities are combat related, there is nothing that can be exploited outside combat or related to it so i really cannot understand this comment of yours.
As for the gold matter 200 filled soul gems are sold for 6 k , which is a good amount of money yes. But the point is that if someone arrives to the point that manages to stack more than 2k filled soulgems bc he farms more than he can consume, then having more methods, besides the soul trap ability, to farm them is clearly excessive and not requested. Better spend time to change this situation into something more adequate.Edited by Algorax on August 7, 2018 1:34PM0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »
Your statement provides all the reasons it is not worth picking:- you need points to do that, soul trap does it and costs no point
- you need to land a kill with a weapon skill, so it becoms completely useless if you do not use a wep skill to sistematically kill your target, hoping that the low percentage does not ruin your expectations.
- You gain big stacks of soul gems in a contest where one accumulates so much gems that not even a soul trap is needed
1. I agree that soul lock needs a skill point and trap does not. But trap needs an active skill slot, and bar space is far more valuable to me than skill points.
2. As long as I'm using a normal PvE rotation with a mix of skills, including weapon skill dots (blockade, endless hail, poison injection, rending slashes) it seems to work well enough, I don't make any special effort to make it work.
3. I'm confused because your point 2 seems to be that it doesn't work well, and here you're arguing that it works too well. I could sell filled gems to the vendor if I was short on gold; mostly I give the gems to my characters that do more PvP since.- We all agreed that the need of soulgems in non existent: there are plenty of them. If you ever un out of jems you just put your free, basic soul trap ability into your bar et voilà, problem solved. Noone endowed with a brain would keep soul trap on his bar, excpet you who told us that you make a wide use of it on pvp, so yes: you just contradicted yourself.
- Start by the fact that you shouldn't need ANY effort or points to do something of such low importance.
- Not only its procs is underperforming per se (10% only) but it only apply IF you kill your target with a wep ability only. So the effectiveness of this perk is subjected to a low percentage, a short range of abilities, to the fact that you MUST the executioner. Always remember that all this fuss is for something not important and that is done at 100% chance by a FREE ability.
Edited by Algorax on August 7, 2018 1:45PM0 -
Sygil05✭✭✭I agree the Soul skill line is mostly worthless and needs work, but Soul Lock is useful and I haven't seen a good argument against it yet.
I'm able to spend one point in this skill, play the game as I normally would, and then never have to worry about running out of soul gems again. I primarily play a mag sorc, and have no problems filling soul gems, even at a 5% chance. Also, we get plenty of skill points in this game, and I find it hard to believe an end game player would not have enough that they could not afford to spend the single point in this passive.0 -
Algorax✭✭✭✭I agree the Soul skill line is mostly worthless and needs work, but Soul Lock is useful and I haven't seen a good argument against it yet.
I'm able to spend one point in this skill, play the game as I normally would, and then never have to worry about running out of soul gems again. I primarily play a mag sorc, and have no problems filling soul gems, even at a 5% chance. Also, we get plenty of skill points in this game, and I find it hard to believe an end game player would not have enough that they could not afford to spend the single point in this passive.
The fact that you CAN spend a point does not mean that you HAVE to. That 2 point perk basically do what a free ability does with no restrictions at all and with no ability point cost. That's the point: it really gives nothing new, noting more.
As you agreed, the talent tree is pretty much underwhelming, i'd just modify the talent replace it with something better0
