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PVP Feedback
Iduyenn
✭✭✭✭
Hello all. First things first: I am not a good PVP`er. My feedback is highly subjective. Some things i`ve already seen in other threads. But i think, i could point them out again.
1. Do we need an "official" Feedback thread? I couldn`t find one recent post. And even if it will not help me, you or zos. I think we should make a list and keep it up to date
2. PVP-Bag/Stacking Sieges: Yes, someone made a post about this. Right now, over 50 Forward camps and 200 Siege machines are stuffed in my Bank and Characters.
That is insane! (And I have 100+ more mails with mayhem presents to open). And yes, i have ESO+ and all chests and stuff...
I understand, that sieges already used (with not full health). Have to be stored separately... but the rest... cmon!
Siege Repair, Wall repair, Gate repair should be stacked in 200 plase!
3. Server overflow problems: I observed a curious thing during the event. While EP nearly turned the whole Map red during prime Time. They still managed to have 2 full zergs in IC to farm flags. In the mean time AD had nearly no ppl in IC and got reked in Fare or BB or... you get the picture.
I don`t know, how this is even possible! My theory is, that there is a mechanic, that allows to overpopulate a certain faction. When zergs go to IC, Cyrodiil compensates it with more ppl. When the raids come back from IC, voilà: Imballance.
Today, i logged on Vivec with a EP alt at 14.00 CET (prime time). I got into Vivec instant. At the same time 3/4 of the map was red and AD has 100+ queue.
I know, there are a lot less organized groups in AD and that is a huge disadvantage and basically not ZOS` fault.
4. Another problem are "ghosts". I get it; You want to make yourself a coffe and go afk for 5 mins. No worries.
But i see a lot of afk ppl inside keeps and other "safe" locations. ALL the time!
I asked someone with a 2nd account. He admitted, that he logged in his 2nd account to AD, parked his character and played with his other caracter in the other alliance. Why? First, you can whatch zone chat. And second: If 20 ppl do that, AD lacks basically 20 ppl. That makes nearly a full group.
Now i hope it is not a regular occurence. But if it is, it is very very very unfair and disturbing. Because i know 1 person does it, so the conclusion, that 20 or even 40 can do it too is not far away.
Now AD with no coordination and PVE players in PVE... ok, i get it. We are lemming`s. But Point 3 +4 and other mechanics not mentioned here to sabbotage PVP is a whole different thing. This needs to be adressed fast. Not in a few months.
5. Traitors: you know the problem. Add it to point 3 +4.
It seems we are in need of some overwatch. But how?
6. Allow better communication in PVP and protect it from abuse (traitors).
Communication is the most important thing. Right after packing some siege weapons...
If an organized zergball with 20 ppl can manage 50+ random enemy players without a sweat. That influences the whole map. Only if ppl can synergize their ultimates and drop them in accordance, there might be a chance to kill the zergball. Because so well organized with all the sets, buffs and the well coordinated movements (los, abrupt direction changes). No mechanic in this game can counter it accordingly. No siege wepons. (Because to slow). Only a well coordinated counter-attack.
Yes, first the community has to step up and get som good leads. We have them and we should thank them for their hard work. But ZOS should increase this even further.
Perhaps something like "Cyrodiil-voice chat". I know... there are issues... There are at least 100eds of possibilities to even the odds. Make more open world events with caravan protections, anchor events etc.
There is an other perspective: In a three alliance war, two alliances are bound to cooperate somehow. I mean this in an unspecific way. Everyone does it with everyone. But somehow this becomes a problem. The morphology of the map has a certain construction which allows to make the frontline very small. Two forces can push trough 2 main-lines onto the 3rd.the rivers with flesh eating fishes are not always a good protection.
I dont want to advertize another lock-solution like with the scroll-base-keeps. But there is a psychological effect/mechanism. It`s always easyer to go down, than up. Since the cyrodiil map is locked in place (EP always from right side, AD from bottom, DC from left). The perspective for each alliance is NOT the same.
I must say, that i cant see a solution here soon. Exept:
- encurage players to organize themselves better
- encurage/implement a system to advertise better communication, information, tactics. (Yes, PVP Guild alliances, guild ranks, pvp-guild bonuses... whatever).
7. "Night-Capping". Some find it awsome, other annoying. I get it.
Different timezones, different playerbases. Though as we`ve seen in the Pellinal-event; If you have a higher player-base. Cyrodiil transcends into a 24/h society.
I know, there are currently some discussions on this matter. I don`t have any solutions either.
8. Imperial City; I say this, because it becomes a problem. I won`t say more, but surely, the ppl concerned know about it.
9. Rewards: Yes; I am looking forward to spend my AP on the golden vendor every saturday/sunday.
And i think it`s ok, that pve items are viable in PVP. But tbh i have a hard time, when our pvp set`s become obsolete. PVP should have better rewards. More rewarding rewards.
There should be craftable, and lootable sets which support a pvp gameplay. Some should even have an advantage in PVE. That would be a fair trade off, since we are bound to go to pve too (i mean end game hardmode raids). Yes, you can always manage with craftable sets. A good player can beat you with his bare fists. So to speak...
10. Capture Keep X and other quests. "Can you plase share?".
I guess the intentions on those quests where somehow "strategy". But it becomes annoying and whatever the intention; it doen`t work. Because if AD only has the two base keeps, they sure as hell dont ride up do Dragonclaw to get the quest done and then to Roebek to get the farm-quest.
Make the quest bound to a location, or alter it to simply "capture a keep". That gives motivation. (which i already presumed, whas the intention of those quests in the beginning?!).
Implement a "Defend" keep quest.
11. "LFG", "lfg", "Invite me, i am a healer!". "Why the [snip] is there no group?". Yes, this is also under point 6. I understand, we have an option to look for a PVP group. But there has to be more incentive to use and manage it.
And the worst thing is: If the leader leaves. The crown goes to someone afk without autoinvite. Noone wants to be lead. The group dies out.
Though i would understand the argumentation, that here is the line, where the playerbase has to start manage itself. Non the less, there should be educational tools. Perhaps something, that shows, what would improve the group itself. A tool, that detects, when noone is wearing set x. Its just an idea.
12. Outposts
The Idea is great. But do you remember the first time ZOS had to ban forward camps? Because whole raids just could spawn anywhere on the map. This is catastrophic if your own alliance is a bunch of unorganized lone wolves trying to be a pac. Because The two enemy alliances arent only attacking your farther homekeeps from one side. They can attack you from behind. Cutting you off and break all teleport lines with one attack.
Yes, its stupid, but it works every time. The attacked alliance has to draw back, divide between defence in the front and the castles/scrolls in the back. At the same time the other alliance can wak right on the same hight. Voilà you have to defend against your two enemys in your backyard and you have no possibility to counter it, because the way behind enemy lines is way to far.
Now i know about the recall stones. But do they work, if a keep is already under attack? I think not.
The outposts are a problem, because they can be spawn points for the whole alliance, but need only 1+ random player to take it. And the worst: You see it, when its under attack. You cant por there. (Can you port there with the recall stones?).
Those outposts need to be fortyfied. They need to be like Sejanus or Nikel. We are in need of some new concepts. You can even take a piece out of other games. Let the players carry ressources and they need to put them into the outposts, before they can claim it for their alliances. We already have enough flags to tapp.
You could do it either by allowing the ppl to grab materials and carry them by themselves. You could do it with caravans. Or other mechanics. I know, that sound strange. But the thinking behind this is the possibility of smaller groups defending moving targets. That means, smaller groups can do that.
I know, this is a far up the horizon idea. But this could be part of a new alliance skill line with additional benefits.
There is a huge load of possibilities out there. Think about ships!
The problems with the outposts remain. I think, we need to implement outposts, which have to be taken to cross the river on the sides.
And i personally would love to see some options to put real ressources into the keeps. Actively strenghen structures and level up your keeps.
13. Flag turning
A guild mate pointed something very interesting out to me. While in other situations. The number of players near a flag determine the speed of how fast a flag is turned.
It`s pretty logical. The bigger the group, the faster the turn. But that means, that a group of 5 to 10 ppl are in disadvantage. They need longer to get the two walls open and then longer to turn the flags. The question is; Do you want to strenghen smaller groups? Or do you want to avoid a small group to be able to take a keep as fast as a raid of 40 players.
The question gets interesting with my pointers in paragraph 12.
If you want to slow things down, there would have to be a defending timer. You will not be able to just run around ressources and take them allone, beeing to fast for the others to catch you. You have to take them and actually be there for a certain amount of time, before it is really yours (a longer time).
And yes, ppl could still gank there and do 1 hour tower zergs. (Or they can`t, if they get expulsed of the tower, after they loose the ressource. Remember the times with closed towers? The problem was, that even if turned, the enemy could still remain inside the tower). But imho i think that would go to far.
Non the less. As long as more ppl are standing in the flag and not running inside to get mindlessly slaughtered, the ppl inside the tower should be at a slight disadvantage. Eventually they will have to come out and take the ressource back, or their trolling would have no impact on the scores of their alliance.
All this things would eventually not prohibit alliances between factions against a 3rd faction. Perhaps, it even encurages it. This may be or not be.
14. PVP Small scale events
We have Battlegrounds, we have Cirodiil, but we dont have a 2v2, 4v4, 10v10 Scenario. It doesn`t always have to be a treesome. The good thing is, that this could still be one in the leaderbords.
Why is this important? Those mall events have (hopefully) an educational purpose. If you have only one enemy and objective. Yes, this is some kind of nostalgia from my side. But imagine a small vally and a good old 2 way fight.
15. Duelling quest and over land duelling.
Why not encurage doing pvp outside cirodiil? Those who dont want it, can still autodecline. (Daily, or weekly quest to take part in 20/100 duels).
Yes, now, that we have one tamriel, we should be able to have a pvp modus (and ofc an option to completely switch it off).
And if the townguard sees you, you have to run.
15. Weekly/Monthely special events.
Not only douple AP, double Tel`var, but also double crafting xp, double gathering. Dont do that yearly. Do it monthly or quaterly.
16. Combat and tactic tips
I have to say, that i was annoyed when ZOS implemented the leveling assistant. But since this game becomes more and more complex (Which is fine for me). I think some improvements in PVP Combat and Tactic tipps (yes, with an off switch ofc) would be in order.
For example, if a bunch of randoms are at a ressource and getting farmed. There could be a pop up with some tipps how to counter things. (Especially, because the most obvious tactic is not possible. You cant damage your own tower. Imho that is aproblem).
Or an explanation, why it is whise to find the sweet spots in CP allocations.. and so on...
17. What is more important: Winning the campaign or "gettin` some".
Actually, important is to have fun. Right?
That is why there are groups not concerned with defending keeps or participating in sieges.
Just in the last hours i had sieges, where i put up 1 ram and 2 ballistas. We where 20ppl, but only had 7 siege weapons.
This morning, i went to arrius and rode around the castle to look out for enemy approaches. Yes, i rode and rode and rode. Zip AP, noone came. But if the goal is to respond fast to attacks, this is a very important task but with no rewards.
But again. If you cry "Arrius UA, port now". Who is going to come? Everyone? Noone, because everyone thinks "the others" will do it.
There are a lot of more things, i am sure of it. And i will post it here. I dont expect something from this thread, but i hope, there are some more ideas, concerns etc.
For example i am still thinking about how to improve small scale/dueling and the integration of battlegrounds in the whole campaign scenario.
Edited by Iduyenn on August 7, 2018 7:40PM 1. Do we need an "official" Feedback thread? I couldn`t find one recent post. And even if it will not help me, you or zos. I think we should make a list and keep it up to date
2. PVP-Bag/Stacking Sieges: Yes, someone made a post about this. Right now, over 50 Forward camps and 200 Siege machines are stuffed in my Bank and Characters.
That is insane! (And I have 100+ more mails with mayhem presents to open). And yes, i have ESO+ and all chests and stuff...
I understand, that sieges already used (with not full health). Have to be stored separately... but the rest... cmon!
Siege Repair, Wall repair, Gate repair should be stacked in 200 plase!
3. Server overflow problems: I observed a curious thing during the event. While EP nearly turned the whole Map red during prime Time. They still managed to have 2 full zergs in IC to farm flags. In the mean time AD had nearly no ppl in IC and got reked in Fare or BB or... you get the picture.
I don`t know, how this is even possible! My theory is, that there is a mechanic, that allows to overpopulate a certain faction. When zergs go to IC, Cyrodiil compensates it with more ppl. When the raids come back from IC, voilà: Imballance.
Today, i logged on Vivec with a EP alt at 14.00 CET (prime time). I got into Vivec instant. At the same time 3/4 of the map was red and AD has 100+ queue.
I know, there are a lot less organized groups in AD and that is a huge disadvantage and basically not ZOS` fault.
4. Another problem are "ghosts". I get it; You want to make yourself a coffe and go afk for 5 mins. No worries.
But i see a lot of afk ppl inside keeps and other "safe" locations. ALL the time!
I asked someone with a 2nd account. He admitted, that he logged in his 2nd account to AD, parked his character and played with his other caracter in the other alliance. Why? First, you can whatch zone chat. And second: If 20 ppl do that, AD lacks basically 20 ppl. That makes nearly a full group.
Now i hope it is not a regular occurence. But if it is, it is very very very unfair and disturbing. Because i know 1 person does it, so the conclusion, that 20 or even 40 can do it too is not far away.
Now AD with no coordination and PVE players in PVE... ok, i get it. We are lemming`s. But Point 3 +4 and other mechanics not mentioned here to sabbotage PVP is a whole different thing. This needs to be adressed fast. Not in a few months.
5. Traitors: you know the problem. Add it to point 3 +4.
It seems we are in need of some overwatch. But how?
6. Allow better communication in PVP and protect it from abuse (traitors).
Communication is the most important thing. Right after packing some siege weapons...
If an organized zergball with 20 ppl can manage 50+ random enemy players without a sweat. That influences the whole map. Only if ppl can synergize their ultimates and drop them in accordance, there might be a chance to kill the zergball. Because so well organized with all the sets, buffs and the well coordinated movements (los, abrupt direction changes). No mechanic in this game can counter it accordingly. No siege wepons. (Because to slow). Only a well coordinated counter-attack.
Yes, first the community has to step up and get som good leads. We have them and we should thank them for their hard work. But ZOS should increase this even further.
Perhaps something like "Cyrodiil-voice chat". I know... there are issues... There are at least 100eds of possibilities to even the odds. Make more open world events with caravan protections, anchor events etc.
There is an other perspective: In a three alliance war, two alliances are bound to cooperate somehow. I mean this in an unspecific way. Everyone does it with everyone. But somehow this becomes a problem. The morphology of the map has a certain construction which allows to make the frontline very small. Two forces can push trough 2 main-lines onto the 3rd.the rivers with flesh eating fishes are not always a good protection.
I dont want to advertize another lock-solution like with the scroll-base-keeps. But there is a psychological effect/mechanism. It`s always easyer to go down, than up. Since the cyrodiil map is locked in place (EP always from right side, AD from bottom, DC from left). The perspective for each alliance is NOT the same.
I must say, that i cant see a solution here soon. Exept:
- encurage players to organize themselves better
- encurage/implement a system to advertise better communication, information, tactics. (Yes, PVP Guild alliances, guild ranks, pvp-guild bonuses... whatever).
7. "Night-Capping". Some find it awsome, other annoying. I get it.
Different timezones, different playerbases. Though as we`ve seen in the Pellinal-event; If you have a higher player-base. Cyrodiil transcends into a 24/h society.
I know, there are currently some discussions on this matter. I don`t have any solutions either.
8. Imperial City; I say this, because it becomes a problem. I won`t say more, but surely, the ppl concerned know about it.
9. Rewards: Yes; I am looking forward to spend my AP on the golden vendor every saturday/sunday.
And i think it`s ok, that pve items are viable in PVP. But tbh i have a hard time, when our pvp set`s become obsolete. PVP should have better rewards. More rewarding rewards.
There should be craftable, and lootable sets which support a pvp gameplay. Some should even have an advantage in PVE. That would be a fair trade off, since we are bound to go to pve too (i mean end game hardmode raids). Yes, you can always manage with craftable sets. A good player can beat you with his bare fists. So to speak...
10. Capture Keep X and other quests. "Can you plase share?".
I guess the intentions on those quests where somehow "strategy". But it becomes annoying and whatever the intention; it doen`t work. Because if AD only has the two base keeps, they sure as hell dont ride up do Dragonclaw to get the quest done and then to Roebek to get the farm-quest.
Make the quest bound to a location, or alter it to simply "capture a keep". That gives motivation. (which i already presumed, whas the intention of those quests in the beginning?!).
Implement a "Defend" keep quest.
11. "LFG", "lfg", "Invite me, i am a healer!". "Why the [snip] is there no group?". Yes, this is also under point 6. I understand, we have an option to look for a PVP group. But there has to be more incentive to use and manage it.
And the worst thing is: If the leader leaves. The crown goes to someone afk without autoinvite. Noone wants to be lead. The group dies out.
Though i would understand the argumentation, that here is the line, where the playerbase has to start manage itself. Non the less, there should be educational tools. Perhaps something, that shows, what would improve the group itself. A tool, that detects, when noone is wearing set x. Its just an idea.
12. Outposts
The Idea is great. But do you remember the first time ZOS had to ban forward camps? Because whole raids just could spawn anywhere on the map. This is catastrophic if your own alliance is a bunch of unorganized lone wolves trying to be a pac. Because The two enemy alliances arent only attacking your farther homekeeps from one side. They can attack you from behind. Cutting you off and break all teleport lines with one attack.
Yes, its stupid, but it works every time. The attacked alliance has to draw back, divide between defence in the front and the castles/scrolls in the back. At the same time the other alliance can wak right on the same hight. Voilà you have to defend against your two enemys in your backyard and you have no possibility to counter it, because the way behind enemy lines is way to far.
Now i know about the recall stones. But do they work, if a keep is already under attack? I think not.
The outposts are a problem, because they can be spawn points for the whole alliance, but need only 1+ random player to take it. And the worst: You see it, when its under attack. You cant por there. (Can you port there with the recall stones?).
Those outposts need to be fortyfied. They need to be like Sejanus or Nikel. We are in need of some new concepts. You can even take a piece out of other games. Let the players carry ressources and they need to put them into the outposts, before they can claim it for their alliances. We already have enough flags to tapp.
You could do it either by allowing the ppl to grab materials and carry them by themselves. You could do it with caravans. Or other mechanics. I know, that sound strange. But the thinking behind this is the possibility of smaller groups defending moving targets. That means, smaller groups can do that.
I know, this is a far up the horizon idea. But this could be part of a new alliance skill line with additional benefits.
There is a huge load of possibilities out there. Think about ships!
The problems with the outposts remain. I think, we need to implement outposts, which have to be taken to cross the river on the sides.
And i personally would love to see some options to put real ressources into the keeps. Actively strenghen structures and level up your keeps.
13. Flag turning
A guild mate pointed something very interesting out to me. While in other situations. The number of players near a flag determine the speed of how fast a flag is turned.
It`s pretty logical. The bigger the group, the faster the turn. But that means, that a group of 5 to 10 ppl are in disadvantage. They need longer to get the two walls open and then longer to turn the flags. The question is; Do you want to strenghen smaller groups? Or do you want to avoid a small group to be able to take a keep as fast as a raid of 40 players.
The question gets interesting with my pointers in paragraph 12.
If you want to slow things down, there would have to be a defending timer. You will not be able to just run around ressources and take them allone, beeing to fast for the others to catch you. You have to take them and actually be there for a certain amount of time, before it is really yours (a longer time).
And yes, ppl could still gank there and do 1 hour tower zergs. (Or they can`t, if they get expulsed of the tower, after they loose the ressource. Remember the times with closed towers? The problem was, that even if turned, the enemy could still remain inside the tower). But imho i think that would go to far.
Non the less. As long as more ppl are standing in the flag and not running inside to get mindlessly slaughtered, the ppl inside the tower should be at a slight disadvantage. Eventually they will have to come out and take the ressource back, or their trolling would have no impact on the scores of their alliance.
All this things would eventually not prohibit alliances between factions against a 3rd faction. Perhaps, it even encurages it. This may be or not be.
14. PVP Small scale events
We have Battlegrounds, we have Cirodiil, but we dont have a 2v2, 4v4, 10v10 Scenario. It doesn`t always have to be a treesome. The good thing is, that this could still be one in the leaderbords.
Why is this important? Those mall events have (hopefully) an educational purpose. If you have only one enemy and objective. Yes, this is some kind of nostalgia from my side. But imagine a small vally and a good old 2 way fight.
15. Duelling quest and over land duelling.
Why not encurage doing pvp outside cirodiil? Those who dont want it, can still autodecline. (Daily, or weekly quest to take part in 20/100 duels).
Yes, now, that we have one tamriel, we should be able to have a pvp modus (and ofc an option to completely switch it off).
And if the townguard sees you, you have to run.
15. Weekly/Monthely special events.
Not only douple AP, double Tel`var, but also double crafting xp, double gathering. Dont do that yearly. Do it monthly or quaterly.
16. Combat and tactic tips
I have to say, that i was annoyed when ZOS implemented the leveling assistant. But since this game becomes more and more complex (Which is fine for me). I think some improvements in PVP Combat and Tactic tipps (yes, with an off switch ofc) would be in order.
For example, if a bunch of randoms are at a ressource and getting farmed. There could be a pop up with some tipps how to counter things. (Especially, because the most obvious tactic is not possible. You cant damage your own tower. Imho that is aproblem).
Or an explanation, why it is whise to find the sweet spots in CP allocations.. and so on...
17. What is more important: Winning the campaign or "gettin` some".
Actually, important is to have fun. Right?
That is why there are groups not concerned with defending keeps or participating in sieges.
Just in the last hours i had sieges, where i put up 1 ram and 2 ballistas. We where 20ppl, but only had 7 siege weapons.
This morning, i went to arrius and rode around the castle to look out for enemy approaches. Yes, i rode and rode and rode. Zip AP, noone came. But if the goal is to respond fast to attacks, this is a very important task but with no rewards.
But again. If you cry "Arrius UA, port now". Who is going to come? Everyone? Noone, because everyone thinks "the others" will do it.
There are a lot of more things, i am sure of it. And i will post it here. I dont expect something from this thread, but i hope, there are some more ideas, concerns etc.
For example i am still thinking about how to improve small scale/dueling and the integration of battlegrounds in the whole campaign scenario.
8
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what's been the most "fun" for you in pvp?
I've always disliked the long flag flipping time for solo players...
makes for a bit of excitement, particularly on the district flags where you can actually look up and see the enemy platforms...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Delphinia✭✭✭✭✭A lot of good points here.
Especially here “He admitted, that he logged in his 2nd account to AD, parked his character and played with his other character in the other alliance.”
This quote in particular is very frustrating and disappointing. It may or may not be against any rules, but it definitely upsets any potential balance and gives an unfair advantage to that player’s “preferred” faction.
I don’t see ZOS being able to stop this and unfortunately, I don’t see the players who are doing it being motivated to stop either. It’s fun for them, but for the faction that’s hurt by it, not so much.. I always see players ask in zone “Where’s all the AD? We’re pop locked”...
Edited by Delphinia on August 7, 2018 6:11AM2 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Concerning the number of people to flip a flag.
I've heard that 6 people will cap out how fast a flag can be flipped. So if team A has 10 people on a flag and team B has 7, then the flag will flip to team A at a 3X rate. If team A has 10 people on a flag and there is no team B, then the flag will flip at a 6X rate.0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭A lot of good points here; pretty much all have been raised at some point but it's good to have them all in one convenient location. Well done. Hopefully the devs will take notice.
Regarding night capping, its very subjective. If people feel that it has an effect than they can raise their concerns. That's all good. The important point is that the solution needs to be fair for all. That includes all timezones with no-one being penalised or being worse off.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭i like your ideas to be honest
The alliance lock would be nice to be implomented finaly i am sick and tierd of the traitors, one fracton is near the winning lets log on to the other toon and mess up the whole thing and basicly it is always happening, not to mention i am so disgused by those players who taking advantages against on alliance and teaming up with the other one. On eu Pc vivec Ad never allied them self with the other fractions, yet dc and ep keep licking eachothers ..... (you know what word i would put on that line). It is not funny and not even fun. What's the point doing that? just to mess with your "socalled" own fraction? thats disgusting.GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n1 -
mojomood✭✭✭Hello all. First things first: I am not a good PVP`er. My feedback is highly subjective. Some things i`ve already seen in other threads. But i think, i could point them out again.
2. PVP-Bag/Stacking Sieges: Yes, someone made a post about this. Right now, over 50 Forward camps and 200 Siege machines are stuffed in my Bank and Characters.
That is insane! (And I have 100+ more mails with mayhem presents to open). And yes, i have ESO+ and all chests and stuff...
I understand, that sieges already used (with not full health). Have to be stored separately... but the rest... cmon!
Siege Repair, Wall repair, Gate repair should be stacked in 200 plase!
Yes, please!3. Server overflow problems: I observed a curious thing during the event. While EP nearly turned the whole Map red during prime Time. They still managed to have 2 full zergs in IC to farm flags. In the mean time AD had nearly no ppl in IC and got reked in Fare or BB or... you get the picture.
I don`t know, how this is even possible! My theory is, that there is a mechanic, that allows to overpopulate a certain faction. When zergs go to IC, Cyrodiil compensates it with more ppl. When the raids come back from IC, voilà: Imballance.
Today, i logged on Vivec with a EP alt at 14.00 CET (prime time). I got into Vivec instant. At the same time 3/4 of the map was red and AD has 100+ queue.
I know, there are a lot less organized groups in AD and that is a huge disadvantage and basically not ZOS` fault.
Good theory, but not exactly how it works. The current exploit is to have the group leader in the faction you want to count against and all the people in the group in the faction you are actually playing. 1 AD leader has 23 EP players, all 24 go in against the AD population. Considering the leader can use an alt account and queue his main individually, the wait is the same and his alt AD toon can stay to listen in on zone chat. I say all this because it is being fixed in the next update when everyone must solo queue for Cyrodiil.5. Traitors: you know the problem. Add it to point 3 +4.
It seems we are in need of some overwatch. But how?
No way to watch this. Don't post everything in zone or post random stuff in zone.7. "Night-Capping". Some find it awsome, other annoying. I get it.
Different timezones, different playerbases. Though as we`ve seen in the Pellinal-event; If you have a higher player-base. Cyrodiil transcends into a 24/h society.
I know, there are currently some discussions on this matter. I don`t have any solutions either.
It is bad since it will always favor the same people. Certain campaigns always go to certain alliances. Adding bonuses to offset has helped, could be increased. No great solution.9. Rewards: Yes; I am looking forward to spend my AP on the golden vendor every saturday/sunday.
And i think it`s ok, that pve items are viable in PVP. But tbh i have a hard time, when our pvp set`s become obsolete. PVP should have better rewards. More rewarding rewards.
There should be craftable, and lootable sets which support a pvp gameplay. Some should even have an advantage in PVE. That would be a fair trade off, since we are bound to go to pve too (i mean end game hardmode raids). Yes, you can always manage with craftable sets. A good player can beat you with his bare fists. So to speak...
There are sets at each of the outposts. For instance, Zaan made elf bane close to BiS for magplar DDs in PvE. Every outpost has sets that are mainly PvP focused, but some can be used in PvE. Completing a hardmode trial gets gold jewelry and being in the top 2% gets gold jewelry.10. Capture Keep X and other quests. "Can you plase share?".
I guess the intentions on those quests where somehow "strategy". But it becomes annoying and whatever the intention; it doen`t work. Because if AD only has the two base keeps, they sure as hell dont ride up do Dragonclaw to get the quest done and then to Roebek to get the farm-quest.
Make the quest bound to a location, or alter it to simply "capture a keep". That gives motivation. (which i already presumed, whas the intention of those quests in the beginning?!).
Implement a "Defend" keep quest.
Could use better logic, but until then, just abandon and reselect. In a group, it's very easy to get a close objective. No quests needed for defending since the incentive should always be to attack. To many defenders as is.11. "LFG", "lfg", "Invite me, i am a healer!". "Why the [snip] is there no group?". Yes, this is also under point 6. I understand, we have an option to look for a PVP group. But there has to be more incentive to use and manage it.
And the worst thing is: If the leader leaves. The crown goes to someone afk without autoinvite. Noone wants to be lead. The group dies out.
Though i would understand the argumentation, that here is the line, where the playerbase has to start manage itself. Non the less, there should be educational tools. Perhaps something, that shows, what would improve the group itself. A tool, that detects, when noone is wearing set x. Its just an idea.
Join PvP guild.12. Outposts
The Idea is great. But do you remember the first time ZOS had to ban forward camps? Because whole raids just could spawn anywhere on the map. This is catastrophic if your own alliance is a bunch of unorganized lone wolves trying to be a pac. Because The two enemy alliances arent only attacking your farther homekeeps from one side. They can attack you from behind. Cutting you off and break all teleport lines with one attack.
Yes, its stupid, but it works every time. The attacked alliance has to draw back, divide between defence in the front and the castles/scrolls in the back. At the same time the other alliance can wak right on the same hight. Voilà you have to defend against your two enemys in your backyard and you have no possibility to counter it, because the way behind enemy lines is way to far.
So really it's death porting that is the issue. 4 man group takes outpost, the rest of the raid death ports in. I think death porting is a dumb mechanic, but I don't think allowing defenders to port into a bursted outpost makes sense. Cutting lines is a major part of Cyrodiil and it needs to stay.13. Flag turning
A guild mate pointed something very interesting out to me. While in other situations. The number of players near a flag determine the speed of how fast a flag is turned.
It`s pretty logical. The bigger the group, the faster the turn. But that means, that a group of 5 to 10 ppl are in disadvantage. They need longer to get the two walls open and then longer to turn the flags. The question is; Do you want to strenghen smaller groups? Or do you want to avoid a small group to be able to take a keep as fast as a raid of 40 players.
The question gets interesting with my pointers in paragraph 12.
If you want to slow things down, there would have to be a defending timer. You will not be able to just run around ressources and take them allone, beeing to fast for the others to catch you. You have to take them and actually be there for a certain amount of time, before it is really yours (a longer time).
And yes, ppl could still gank there and do 1 hour tower zergs. (Or they can`t, if they get expulsed of the tower, after they loose the ressource. Remember the times with closed towers? The problem was, that even if turned, the enemy could still remain inside the tower). But imho i think that would go to far.
Non the less. As long as more ppl are standing in the flag and not running inside to get mindlessly slaughtered, the ppl inside the tower should be at a slight disadvantage. Eventually they will have to come out and take the ressource back, or their trolling would have no impact on the scores of their alliance.
Resource farming is done for a lot of reasons, cutting lines and ap farming are probably top. I wouldn't call either trolling. Again, why make it harder to attack and easier to defend? Go on the offensive and take the other guys resources.
Some good points, but a lot that favor defense over offense, which makes for a stale, boring experience. Honestly, no CP has a lot of what you want since offense is harder due to tougher guards, fewer trolly builds since time to kill is much faster. After changing my builds to account for the differences, I find it harder but more rewarding.
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Iduyenn✭✭✭✭Hello and thank you everyone for responding.
I know, some of all this is kind of subjective and i dont have the in depth insight in the mechanics of every aspect of this game.
For example very few player go beyond the tooltips and understand the synergies and mechanics not statet in descriptions.
Due to the fact of such numerous possibilities in combining sets and other things, there really is no fast way to get this understanding any faster. Sometimes for me that is frustrating.
Because even now i struggle with the correlation between crit resistance, penetration and all the other things.
Yes, you can go forth wit trial an error or you get lucky with one of the premade builds. Some slight adaptions and it fits your playstyle.
I can understand the frustrations of this things. How is it possible to get 25k+ Burst in 1.75 second, when you are at 3k critresist and 25 mag/armor resistance? (don`t answer this).
The learning curve is individual and for some an endless frustrating road.
I put this under point 16 and 17.16. Combat and tactic tips
I have to say, that i was annoyed when ZOS implemented the leveling assistant. But since this game becomes more and more complex (Which is fine for me). I think some improvements in PVP Combat and Tactic tipps (yes, with an off switch ofc) would be in order.
For example, if a bunch of randoms are at a ressource and getting farmed. There could be a pop up with some tipps how to counter things. (Especially, because the most obvious tactic is not possible. You cant damage your own tower. Imho that is aproblem).
Or an explanation, why it is whise to find the sweet spots in CP allocations.. and so on...
17. What is more important: Winning the campaign or "gettin` some".
Actually, important is to have fun. Right?
That is why there are groups not concerned with defending keeps or participating in sieges.
Just in the last hours i had sieges, where i put up 1 ram and 2 ballistas. We where 20ppl, but only had 7 siege weapons.
This morning, i went to arrius and rode around the castle to look out for enemy approaches. Yes, i rode and rode and rode. Zip AP, noone came. But if the goal is to respond fast to attacks, this is a very important task but with no rewards.
But again. If you cry "Arrius UA, port now". Who is going to come? Everyone? Noone, because everyone thinks "the others" will do it.
Especially with the upcoming recall stones, this will be most effective.what's been the most "fun" for you in pvp?
I like well organized groups. Everyone following the crown and applying tactics to overcome difficult situations. (Moving trough a breach, having scouts, and so on.
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think what frustrates me the most (other than game performance), is the potential the alliance war had/has...
I get only a small percentage of the player base (10 to 15 percent maybe?) participate in cyrodiil, and, it kind of becomes a catch 22 - the less people in to cyrodiil, the less attention and resources it receives from zenimax...
less attention and resources on zenimax behalf into cyrodiil, the lower the player participation will be...
I'm afraid the current status quo might be what we're stuck with...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Iduyenn✭✭✭✭I think what frustrates me the most (other than game performance), is the potential the alliance war had/has...
I get only a small percentage of the player base (10 to 15 percent maybe?) participate in cyrodiil, and, it kind of becomes a catch 22 - the less people in to cyrodiil, the less attention and resources it receives from zenimax...
less attention and resources on zenimax behalf into cyrodiil, the lower the player participation will be...
I'm afraid the current status quo might be what we're stuck with...
Yes! You are right! And the small percentage in Cyrodiil itself, that CAN actually make a difference...
The thing is, that there are no gaps, no real boundaries. Yes, we have low level campaigns. But as of now, there is a huge community pulling up twinks/alts with superior gear and knowledge. You see, the disencouragement starts very early!
Someone already pictured a pretty accurate description about new players. Rainbowbuild, no headpiece and shoulders, and no sets, all green.
They may even joined pvp after they already leveled to lvl 50 (you know all how fast that can go). "Because then i would be strong enough". Yeah! They get desillusionated pretty fast!
Encountering a superior player. It`s like trying to hit a god. And beeing sheep is no fun. No wonders many player get annoyed/frustrated very fast. They will never return to the place of their humilliation/annihilation.
I get it, that the 1vx feeling is crazy and that 3 expirienced players can zergtroll a group 10 times the size of them.
Even in Battleground (which low level player like participating more and more). Just yesterday, we got reked (Veteran BG) by the same premade groups, because they targeted together and had appropriat group synergies. They won the battlegrounds to zero. And in my group we had a pvp heal/supporter and over 2.5 million dmg. (I even had my sloads on
)
Or think about Imperial city, the home of the "you just wanted to kill some npc`s for Tel`var stones and suddendly you are dead".
The thing is, that it`s not like in PVE, where you have a "Veteran", "Hardmode", Tag. and god help you, if you join a group with less than 500cp. Even now, the newer Dungeons are not beloved by many with CP760+.
The thing is, that your alliance depends on strong playerbase too. If half of your ppl are cp >160, you can see the problems without problems.
And even if they would open a campaign, where only CP760+ players could join. Gear and Expirience still make to much of a difference.
There is even a hardcore variation, where you implement another pvp player score and if you fall below, you are not allowed into the campaign. (But yeah, we all see the problems with current player ratings and bg`s)
The current campaign setup is a try to at least divide the fresh ones, from the old worriors. But we all know, that it is not a permanent solution. Because CP or not, you always win with superior knowledge/expirience/equipment and cooperation.
On the other side, ESO is in need of new players. We need new blood constantely. We should not end their fun before they got to know the game a little better.
So the real question is, how you ease the new/unexpirienced players into PVP in a smoother kind of way.
WITHOUT nerfing and killing the fun for "more complex playstyle/situations". (And without deviding the small playerbase into even smaller factions. We need the numbers too.
- Rewards (the "need"). And i higly suggest, that you spparate PVE/PVP a bit, because i dont want for PVE`ers to "have to" go to pvp and vice versa.
- Fun (community, organisation, gratifying effects)
- Learning mechanics (From small to big and back). BG`s are pretty small scale. But i think some old scool 10v10 or so could really help. Tough it would not solve the problem.
The problem/or the way this game goes is trough bursty playstyle. The reason? Because more annoying than burst is turtle game, where noone dies. I am pretty sure, that the burstyness is part of the plan to uphold the fast and furious playtyle and to disencurage full tanky, heal yourself to death builds. (Tough some builds cutting it pretty close even now). Especially if you can switch to overpowered defence and then proc-burst your opponent so fast, he can`t even see it on the death recap.
But yeah, that means new players will get incinerated even faster.
And that ladies, gentlemen and other furry monsters - is a problem.
Edit: And i should point out, that there is a certain "pvp athmosphere" to uphold. The immersion should still be there.
Edit2: One way to put pvp in the minds of the ppl is to allow open world pvp with objectives on the maps (which give small buffs/rewards for the whole zone. And the possibility to /pvp mode and make things interesting. (But again, it must not disturb the pure pve player).Edited by Iduyenn on August 8, 2018 12:28PM1 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@mojomood
"Good theory, but not exactly how it works. The current exploit is to have the group leader in the faction you want to count against and all the people in the group in the faction you are actually playing. 1 AD leader has 23 EP players, all 24 go in against the AD population. Considering the leader can use an alt account and queue his main individually, the wait is the same and his alt AD toon can stay to listen in on zone chat. I say all this because it is being fixed in the next update when everyone must solo queue for Cyrodiil"
Was this not addressed several patches ago? Are you completely certain this is still being used?
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Delphinia✭✭✭✭✭@mojomood
"Good theory, but not exactly how it works. The current exploit is to have the group leader in the faction you want to count against and all the people in the group in the faction you are actually playing. 1 AD leader has 23 EP players, all 24 go in against the AD population. Considering the leader can use an alt account and queue his main individually, the wait is the same and his alt AD toon can stay to listen in on zone chat. I say all this because it is being fixed in the next update when everyone must solo queue for Cyrodiil"
Was this not addressed several patches ago? Are you completely certain this is still being used?
This, along with what was mentioned earlier (where someone posted that some players with multiple accounts just log in and loiter on your faction, while playing their “main” on an opposing one), really is disappointing. The lengths some people will go to...especially if it’s from those who swear up and down they don’t care about the map or the score.. I guess it’s just another “valid” tactic for some, but to try and manipulate an already weak system, is truly disheartening.
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Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that there are lots of issues with PVP but i can look at just these two and say faction locks would prevent this. "linked Accounts".
Play as you like is just a polite way of saying I want to be XXXXXXXXXXX1 -
Sacredx✭✭✭The game will never be perfect. The best way to mitigate exploits is to lead by example and play the way the game is intended to be played. If you are exploiting the game in any way be it via double accounts or some bug then you are only cheating yourself out of the gameplay and rewards. The wins will no longer feel enjoyable or feel like you won because you know that you are taking advantage, so in the end the player that cheats is only cheating themselves. On the other hand if you are playing the way it is intended then you will feel all those emotions and have a much better experience.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc1 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game will never be perfect. The best way to mitigate exploits is to lead by example and play the way the game is intended to be played. If you are exploiting the game in any way be it via double accounts or some bug then you are only cheating yourself out of the gameplay and rewards. The wins will no longer feel enjoyable or feel like you won because you know that you are taking advantage, so in the end the player that cheats is only cheating themselves. On the other hand if you are playing the way it is intended then you will feel all those emotions and have a much better experience.
I totally agree, unfortunately i'm not so sure those that are cheating have emotions. God knows they have no moral compass to tell them cheating and exploiting is wrong.2 -
albesca✭✭✭✭✭So the real question is, how you ease the new/unexpirienced players into PVP in a smoother kind of way.
WITHOUT nerfing and killing the fun for "more complex playstyle/situations". (And without deviding the small playerbase into even smaller factions. We need the numbers too.
A solution could be to somehow divide the PVP zone in a front line where the big fights happen and a rear where enemies are fewer and in smaller groups. I honestly don't know how to implement this, though.PC EU
Khajiit has no time for you0 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2: I know what you mean and I have the same problem, but I really really don't want to complain about having 50 camps. It's like winning in the lottery and complain it wasn't more. The event was insane in therms of loot and ap, and we should be happy about it. It was a good event if it wasn't for the ap gain from IC.
3: I sometimes felt the same, where are all the people? It's an interesting theory about coming out of IC and be overpopulated. The IC vs Cyrodiil is already a problem.
4: I'm suprised this is a problem for a casual mmo actually. If it makes you feel better, all alliances have that same problem. We got rekt as well as EP multiple times, and found like 10-15 afk in a keep. I also want to mention that the ep many times didn't communicate through zone, but they made a group and attacked randomly and we had no idea what was happening ourselves.
7: PLEASE READ THIS::::::: Nightcapping: I was nightcapping 4-5 days during event but I have to say this to my defense: I was playing since 13:00. I sat the whole afternoon and evening and played and enjoyed my current pvp maraton I had. Then night come and I wanted to stay up some more because I wasn't tired. I got hate whisperes about how low it was to night cap, but really? I wasn't night capping I was 24/7 playing pvp. It's not my fault that it's more people in cyro on our alliance at that time. You said you had no solution, but I might have:
After 23:00 to 07:00 for example, there could be lower population cap, meaning one alliance can't dominate with more players. Ofc there will be some more than others, but it could be better.
9: If you really don't want to go pve in an elder scrolls game, then pve'ers shouldn't be going pvp for the warhorn, purge or speedbuff, heavily used in pve.
10: I think this was an issue only in the event. I didn't get this impression that people cared about quests. If an solution, could be to not be able to share them.
11: Group tool could be an option here. Also you could check of if you was interested in having the crown or not.
12: I don't agree too much here. We have scouts and defenders everywhere, and the keep needs to be 50% before you can't port. More times we are able to defend and get some kills and def tick, rather than losing the keep. There should be some risk of going too far out from the home keeps as well. The only problem is that you can tag the inner door to 50% as well without getting tagged.
15: You wrote 15 two times btw. About the montly event thing, it's too much really. There will be people only playing during these times. Really calm down now XD
17: Again, was this during the event ?
I was in a group with a leader who suicided mid battle that we was winning. He yelled with caps lock SUICIDE OR I KICK YOU. This was a 24 man group. Everyone suicided and spawned at *** BRUMA. We took dragon and by the time we was done, we had lost all the map, all home keeps, everything. I asked him why and he said "Because I thought EP Could handle some". So it's really important here to understand that everyone matters. They really do. One dude with double oil can be the cause of winning. One player initiating can be the cause of winning the push. It's mostly overnumbered, but it can be those small details as well. The leader I was talking about earlier, also pinged bleakers, told us to meet us there while he delivered quest. Then he ride towards bleakers and suddenly he took a 90 degree turn to place a forward camp and yelled with caps lock he will kick those who are not on crown wtf why we not on crown. I told him because you pinged a position on map and told us to go there. So long story short, I agree that solo players that are afk or don't bother can lose outpost or keep, but a more issue is crap leaders like I mentioned, that actually takes 24 people to bruma and use 15 mins on it as well.Edited by OrphanHelgen on August 9, 2018 12:05PMPC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
Iduyenn✭✭✭✭@OrphanHelgen
7. Nightcapping is just a problem, if you dont have a "night shift" in your alliance.
Just Kidding. I dont have a problem with it, because i know, there are ppl working nightsift and they have total different play times, when they can log in. Its not always fun, because how much fun is it to play on an empty map, just turning keeps and seeing noone?
And we have a lot of different time zones.
Its funny how the server pop-lock changes. I dont know anything about the diversity between the AD, EP, DC. But since guilds have sometimes a faction theme, i argument, that there are actual country-timezone differences who give different pop-lock`s for different alliances to different times. Right now it`s like that; 10pm CET: One faction rolls over the map. Huge zergs squash you like bugs. 0pm The other Alliance starts rolling and the map turns in collors. (take it with a grain of salt).
9. I don`t want to do much high end hard core PVE, beause i dont have the time and i did it in the past. I just don`t want to do stuff, only because i have to in order to acchieve something in a total different branch of the game.
I still plan to do quests and stuff plus the occasional veteran hm, if i get "interested".
17.Oh no! In random groups you have to beg and yell to get your sieges up. That is not a "special event" occurance.
Some are even stealing your own sieges (though i don`t mind... its better to actually have someone doing something).
Honestly, it depends on the group.
And the truth is, that sometimes you have 40 ppl running to an enemy maingate and doing light attacks to the walls... no sieges there. When/if the castle is finally under attack. Everyone and his/her mother is there to defend. :P
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