Channeled Acceleration or simply Inner Light?

V_Sen

I was just wondering what would be best for a Templar DPS in this case. I already have Inner light for the critical on my main bar, but should I put it on my back bar as well? I have channeled acceleration right now there, but would it be better to replace it?

Banana

I like having both on my mDK

AbysmalGhul

Double slot inner light. You already have an Aedric spear passive that gives you 10 % crit damage.

V_Sen

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Double slot inner light. You already have an Aedric spear passive that gives you 10 % crit damage.

That's very true. I was thinking the double slot would be better, in addition to the fact that I would have one less buff to worry about. Thanks!

Baz

Keep channeled Acceleration.
You just stay on that bar 2sec every 8sec. (and 3sec every 25sec)
You think 7% magicka 25% of the time is better than 10% crit damage 100% (maybe 95%) of the time ? Answer is no.

Keep Channeled Acceleration.

Mystrius_Archaion

Why is this a choice?
They do 2 different things with one requiring the other.

1) You get nothing from Inner Light if it isn't on the bar you are using at the time. You should double bar it to avoid drops in max magicka and drops in crit percentage(most important).

2) Channeled Acceleration only provides, other than extra speed(too short a duration to matter much), 10% extra crit damage, but without the 10% extra crit chance from Inner Light you will be seeing this a lot less often. It pretty much requires Inner Light on the same bar at minimum.

FYI, crit chance trumps crit damage every time because if you don't crit then you don't get that extra 10% crit damage, which is actually only 1/16th of the total damage done of a crit(100% regular dmg + 50% normal crit dmg + 10% crit dmg from CA = 160%) so is arguably negligible compared to the crit itself and buffs to base damage. Just making a critical hit is much better than a small buff to less critical hits.

So yes, double bar Inner Light and honestly probably "bin" Channeled Acceleration unless you have a free bar slot that can't be better with anything else, even another DoT which probably trumps CA too.

Mystrius_Archaion

Baz wrote: »

Keep channeled Acceleration.
You just stay on that bar 2sec every 8sec. (and 3sec every 25sec)
You think 7% magicka 25% of the time is better than 10% crit damage 100% (maybe 95%) of the time ? Answer is no.

Keep Channeled Acceleration.

That's so wrong.

1) 7% max magicka contributes to base damage making all crits stronger, or weaker when you lose it so your 10% crit damage isn't as strong when it is only buffing 100% base damage instead of 107% base damage.
2) Channeled Acceleration is a buff on the character that isn't a passive that is only on when on the bar it is slotted on. That means it doesn't need to be the bar you stay on.
3) The biggest benefit of Inner Light is the 10% chance to crit that you get when it is on your bar, not when it is off your bar or on the second hidden bar. That's hard to make up anywhere else and losing it removes a lot of crits from your skills, which is a loss of 50% extra damage every time you would have crit but didn't. The 7% max magicka is just a bonus compared to the essential crit chance.

You actually want to spend as much time on the bar with Inner Light as possible, ideally double-barred so it is constant and everything is stronger before crits and much stronger when crit and will crit more often.

V_Sen

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Why is this a choice?
They do 2 different things with one requiring the other.

1) You get nothing from Inner Light if it isn't on the bar you are using at the time. You should double bar it to avoid drops in max magicka and drops in crit percentage(most important).

2) Channeled Acceleration only provides, other than extra speed(too short a duration to matter much), 10% extra crit damage, but without the 10% extra crit chance from Inner Light you will be seeing this a lot less often. It pretty much requires Inner Light on the same bar at minimum.

FYI, crit chance trumps crit damage every time because if you don't crit then you don't get that extra 10% crit damage, which is actually only 1/16th of the total damage done of a crit(100% regular dmg + 50% normal crit dmg + 10% crit dmg from CA = 160%) so is arguably negligible compared to the crit itself and buffs to base damage. Just making a critical hit is much better than a small buff to less critical hits.

So yes, double bar Inner Light and honestly probably "bin" Channeled Acceleration unless you have a free bar slot that can't be better with anything else, even another DoT which probably trumps CA too.

The only reason I was deciding was because I saw some people replace a double-barred inner light with a single inner light and a channeled acceleration. I always thought that the solid crit increase from inner light was a better choice, but I was just wondering why anyone would take channeled acceleration over it. Thanks for the insight!

V_Sen

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Baz wrote: »

Keep channeled Acceleration.
You just stay on that bar 2sec every 8sec. (and 3sec every 25sec)
You think 7% magicka 25% of the time is better than 10% crit damage 100% (maybe 95%) of the time ? Answer is no.

Keep Channeled Acceleration.

That's so wrong.

1) 7% max magicka contributes to base damage making all crits stronger, or weaker when you lose it so your 10% crit damage isn't as strong when it is only buffing 100% base damage instead of 107% base damage.
2) Channeled Acceleration is a buff on the character that isn't a passive that is only on when on the bar it is slotted on. That means it doesn't need to be the bar you stay on.
3) The biggest benefit of Inner Light is the 10% chance to crit that you get when it is on your bar, not when it is off your bar or on the second hidden bar. That's hard to make up anywhere else and losing it removes a lot of crits from your skills, which is a loss of 50% extra damage every time you would have crit but didn't. The 7% max magicka is just a bonus compared to the essential crit chance.

You actually want to spend as much time on the bar with Inner Light as possible, ideally double-barred so it is constant and everything is stronger before crits and much stronger when crit and will crit more often.

Thanks for the insight buddy! I believe my mind's been made.

Valrien

Do people not realize that you barely spend any time on your back bar and that Inner Light is completely expendable on your back bar?

nickl413

Valrien wrote: »

Do people not realize that you barely spend any time on your back bar and that Inner Light is completely expendable on your back bar?

If i'm not badly mistaken, the crit % that is active while applying dots or aoe's, carrys over for those dots and aoe's when you you switch bars.

Danksta

Channeled Acceleration, although I prefer Rearming Trap for most fights.

mimicks

I tend to use both (inner light front, CA back) but let's say youre using tri-spell power pots on cooldown, wouldnt you get 100% major prophecy uptime anyways?
I know if you single barred inner light you'd be missing out the max magicka when you bar switched but I'm not sure how much of a dps loss that amounts to.

Hurtfan

I'm currently double-barring inner light and also running channeled acceleration for the 30 sec buff, might be 35 secs, can't remember. This is as a magsorc.

As far as damage output, I think you'll like running both also but I've never played a Templar so not sure if you can afford the slots or not.

Try it out (slotting both), the extra 10% damage to crits does add up.

Edit: just read Templars already get a 10% damage boost to crits through a passive. Would this stack? Would be epic if it did but guessing it doesn't.

Danksta

Hurtfan wrote: »

I'm currently double-barring inner light and also running channeled acceleration for the 30 sec buff, might be 35 secs, can't remember. This is as a magsorc.

As far as damage output, I think you'll like running both also but I've never played a Templar so not sure if you can afford the slots or not.

Try it out (slotting both), the extra 10% damage to crits does add up.

Edit: just read Templars already get a 10% damage boost to crits through a passive. Would this stack? Would be epic if it did but guessing it doesn't.

It does stack because the passive that Templars get isn't a named buff like minor force.

Runefang

So much bad advice in here...

The Templar crit passive stacks with the minor force buff. And saying that because you have this passive you shouldn't get minor force is bad advice. It actually means that running high crit is even better on a Templar. Run Mother's sorrow and inner light on your front bar with an Aedric spear skill spotted too, get minor force from your channelled acceleration and your build synergies nicely. You now have both high crit chance AND high crit damage. Get into trials where warhorn is giving you major force, now you're really flying!

Major prophecy is found in spell power pots so that part of inner light gets wasted (at least in hard content when you need to run expensive pots). Critical chance is dynamic so each dot is calculated based on your current stats, not the stats of the bar when it was cast. So losing 10% while on your back bar isn't an issue anyway because you only go there every 2 in 8 seconds.

Hurtfan

Danksta wrote: »

Hurtfan wrote: »

I'm currently double-barring inner light and also running channeled acceleration for the 30 sec buff, might be 35 secs, can't remember. This is as a magsorc.

As far as damage output, I think you'll like running both also but I've never played a Templar so not sure if you can afford the slots or not.

Try it out (slotting both), the extra 10% damage to crits does add up.

Edit: just read Templars already get a 10% damage boost to crits through a passive. Would this stack? Would be epic if it did but guessing it doesn't.

It does stack because the passive that Templars get isn't a named buff like minor force.

I see what you're saying, it's a passive so it's automatically part of the build and you can pile on top of it. Makes sense.

Kingslayer513

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Baz wrote: »

Keep channeled Acceleration.
You just stay on that bar 2sec every 8sec. (and 3sec every 25sec)
You think 7% magicka 25% of the time is better than 10% crit damage 100% (maybe 95%) of the time ? Answer is no.

Keep Channeled Acceleration.

That's so wrong.

1) 7% max magicka contributes to base damage making all crits stronger, or weaker when you lose it so your 10% crit damage isn't as strong when it is only buffing 100% base damage instead of 107% base damage.
2) Channeled Acceleration is a buff on the character that isn't a passive that is only on when on the bar it is slotted on. That means it doesn't need to be the bar you stay on.
3) The biggest benefit of Inner Light is the 10% chance to crit that you get when it is on your bar, not when it is off your bar or on the second hidden bar. That's hard to make up anywhere else and losing it removes a lot of crits from your skills, which is a loss of 50% extra damage every time you would have crit but didn't. The 7% max magicka is just a bonus compared to the essential crit chance.

You actually want to spend as much time on the bar with Inner Light as possible, ideally double-barred so it is constant and everything is stronger before crits and much stronger when crit and will crit more often.

???

If you are playing endgame PVE then you are using spell power pots. You get 100% major prophecy uptime with spell power pots. The major prophecy you get from Inner Light is completely irrelevant because it does not stack. The only benefit of Inner Light is the max magicka amp. You also spend barely any time on your backbar, making this benefit even less important there. Baz is absolutely right.

Kingslayer513

nickl413 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Do people not realize that you barely spend any time on your back bar and that Inner Light is completely expendable on your back bar?

If i'm not badly mistaken, the crit % that is active while applying dots or aoe's, carrys over for those dots and aoe's when you you switch bars.

Sorry but you are mistaken. Every tick of a dot calculates if it's a crit based on your current crit chance, so it would really only effect the first tick of the dot. Also, crit chance shouldn't even be part of the discussion since you have 100% major prophecy uptime from spell power pots already.

V_Sen

Runefang wrote: »

So much bad advice in here...

The Templar crit passive stacks with the minor force buff. And saying that because you have this passive you shouldn't get minor force is bad advice. It actually means that running high crit is even better on a Templar. Run Mother's sorrow and inner light on your front bar with an Aedric spear skill spotted too, get minor force from your channelled acceleration and your build synergies nicely. You now have both high crit chance AND high crit damage. Get into trials where warhorn is giving you major force, now you're really flying!

Major prophecy is found in spell power pots so that part of inner light gets wasted (at least in hard content when you need to run expensive pots). Critical chance is dynamic so each dot is calculated based on your current stats, not the stats of the bar when it was cast. So losing 10% while on your back bar isn't an issue anyway because you only go there every 2 in 8 seconds.

That makes sense. I've had channeled acceleration on for a while and it was fine. I just didn't know if for some reason it wasn't worth it when faced with the double inner light. Also, Valerian does have a good point about that. I use my back bar for basically buffs and 2 damage spells (vampire's bane and elemental blockade). I thought the crit on those would be important too, but maybe not. BTW sorry guys, this is coming from a semi-noob that's got his first toon to CP haha

Valrien

nickl413 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Do people not realize that you barely spend any time on your back bar and that Inner Light is completely expendable on your back bar?

If i'm not badly mistaken, the crit % that is active while applying dots or aoe's, carrys over for those dots and aoe's when you you switch bars.

It does, but Major Prophecy is found on potions (which you should be using)...so the only thing to worry about is 7% magicka, and losing 7% magicka for about 2-3 seconds every rotation doesn't compare to the crit damage gained from Channeled.

Gnortranermara

Minor Force gives you 12% CHDM, which translates to about 6-8% more damage (depending on your crit chance) for 36 seconds. If you're doing ~36k DPS, then that would give you about 2.5k more DPS in a vacuum - BUT you have to consider opportunity cost. That 2.5k is reduced by what you're losing. The cost you'll pay is: the casting cost of 2900 magicka, a 1.3 second channel approximately once every 4-5 rotations, -7% Max Magicka on that bar (plus a tiny bit of recovery), and potentially (if you have no other source of the buff) -10% crit chance while on that bar. It's impossible to say exactly how much those factors reduce the 2.5k without knowing your exact rotation and gear setup.

For me, between the channel time interrupting your rotation every 4-5 cycles and the -7% max magicka, Channeled Acceleration looks like a bad deal for long-term DPS. (And that's ignoring the Major Prophecy buff, since you should probably get it from somewhere else. But if you don't then Channeled Acceleration looks REALLY bad.) However, it looks like it would be good for short-term burst fights (anything shorter than its duration).

Personally, I'd rather double-bar my Inner Light and be done with it. I don't like my resources changing when I bar swap, especially with the ongoing random resource drain bug which might be related to max stats changing on bar swaps (which ZOS has no clue how to fix and has even begun ignoring reports because they can't figure it out).