MMR

The_Brosteen

Between work and school I dont get a lot of playtime during the week anymore, mainly just on weekends. I see people talk about high mmr queue times. I dont have that problem usually so it appears that I have a low mmr.

My understanding is that mmr is private so you cant actually see any sort of rating. Is there any other way to know besides assuming based on your queue time?

What would determine mmr? K/d ratio? Damage output? How often you win? Medal score?

Just curious, if anyone knows.

LadyNalcarya

I asked the support about it, they basically said that queue depends on "many factors, including mmr" but they wouldnt tell me what determines it. I was kinda disappointed, I have no idea why it has to be a secret.

The_Brosteen

Interesting.

What a mystery

oxygen_thief

they dont know how it works because this function was written by outsourced workers maybe even by some high school students

Valabrog

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Between work and school I dont get a lot of playtime during the week anymore, mainly just on weekends. I see people talk about high mmr queue times. I dont have that problem usually so it appears that I have a low mmr.

My understanding is that mmr is private so you cant actually see any sort of rating. Is there any other way to know besides assuming based on your queue time?

What would determine mmr? K/d ratio? Damage output? How often you win? Medal score?

Just curious, if anyone knows.

Well, you can check Leaderboards section - there is your standing in every category of BG game (if you are ranked). Maybe its related. Im 81 rank in flag games (prob below 50 category).

SlippyCheeze

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Between work and school I dont get a lot of playtime during the week anymore, mainly just on weekends. I see people talk about high mmr queue times. I dont have that problem usually so it appears that I have a low mmr.

My understanding is that mmr is private so you cant actually see any sort of rating. Is there any other way to know besides assuming based on your queue time?

What would determine mmr? K/d ratio? Damage output? How often you win? Medal score?

Just curious, if anyone knows.

The best place to start would be with the Glicko rating system, which is the best fully public MMR system available at this time.

Normally the answer is: MMR is determined based on how often you win or lose, and how frequently the prediction made at the start matches the actual outcome. That is, if the system guesses wrong about how the match will end too frequently, it moves faster, on the assumption that this shows the MMR is inaccurate.

Fake Remedy

The undisclosed impact of the new MMR on Battlegrounds is one of pure roleplay.

I have a character locked in an average wait of 40 minutes. I just recently melted an unused character into a complete copy and paste of my main. BOOM insta pop!

Mojomonkeyman

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Between work and school I dont get a lot of playtime during the week anymore, mainly just on weekends. I see people talk about high mmr queue times. I dont have that problem usually so it appears that I have a low mmr.

My understanding is that mmr is private so you cant actually see any sort of rating. Is there any other way to know besides assuming based on your queue time?

What would determine mmr? K/d ratio? Damage output? How often you win? Medal score?

Just curious, if anyone knows.

The most telling indicator really is your waiting time. If you start with new MMR (instant queues) it will take around 250 matches with 50%+ winrate and 4k average medalscore to be put into "medium/high" mmr backets (10-15min minimum waiting time in queue) over time. 250 more games with equal performance and you will be looking at 20-30min+ waiting time.

Performing even better (winrate/medalscore) will raise your mmr, too (but has less overall effect than pure number of matches played afaik). Another factor to consider is the number of relevant mmr players queuing for matches at any given time. Means, even if your regular solo waiting time is 40min+ (super high MMR) - if theres enough other super higher MMR players queuing you can still get an invite rather quickly (its just much more rare to happen).

I grinded a new BG char for summerset and thats my observations so far. I find it really concerning that BG chars have an expiration date attached - at some point they will simply sorted out from regular participation.

Fake Remedy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I find it really concerning that BG chars have an expiration date attached - at some point they will simply sorted out from regular participation.

Did you catch this? @ZOS_BrianWheeler said they are having talks about how to make the queue times better without reducing competition for those investing highly into Battlegrounds. Interpret that as you wish.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DistinctMagnificentStinkbugResidentSleeper

Carbonised

The so-called MMr system is a joke. I am AvA rank 30, and I have plenty of experience from BGs too. I consistently end up as top of my 4 man group, in term of personal medals, or at least as number 2. And my teammates for the large majority consists of PvE scrubs, usually with AvA below 10, and with PvE titles on their characters.

This ends up with the majority of my BG matches playing out with my team becoming the losing one, or at top number 2 in the match, while I score a personal medal score top of my team, and usually double that of the other team mates.

Which begs the question, why does the ranking system consistently put me on teams with team mates that are objectively way below my skill and ranking, while the opposing teams more often than not consist of pros who steamroll over us.

Mojomonkeyman

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I find it really concerning that BG chars have an expiration date attached - at some point they will simply sorted out from regular participation.

Did you catch this? @ZOS_BrianWheeler said they are having talks about how to make the queue times better without reducing competition for those investing highly into Battlegrounds. Interpret that as you wish.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DistinctMagnificentStinkbugResidentSleeper

Yeah, watched it - "a little bit" is almost an insult to the ones affected most. Even a 10min wait inbetween every match is making me want to log off and do something else but eso. There is no reason to have effective 50% downtime every hour (10min wait/10min match). There must be better solutions than this.

And that kind of mark (10min wait time) is easily reached with just about 250 matches (+- depending on other factors) played. It gets way worse than that, you know it like I do.

Fake Remedy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I find it really concerning that BG chars have an expiration date attached - at some point they will simply sorted out from regular participation.

Did you catch this? @ZOS_BrianWheeler said they are having talks about how to make the queue times better without reducing competition for those investing highly into Battlegrounds. Interpret that as you wish.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DistinctMagnificentStinkbugResidentSleeper

Yeah, watched it - "a little bit" is almost an insult to the ones affected most. Even a 10min wait inbetween every match is making me want to log off and do something else but eso. There is no reason to have effective 50% downtime every hour (10min wait/10min match). There must be better solutions than this.

And that kind of mark (10min wait time) is easily reached with just about 250 matches (+- depending on other factors) played. It gets way worse than that, you know it like I do.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Gilliamtherogue @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Agree. I'm sure they know the integrity of the Battleground MMR system continues to be compromised and completely bypassed by players remolding alts or creating new copies of their mains. Look at PTS the other day. They also know a good enough portion of players are enjoying the low-mid MMR Battlegrounds.

I finally caved in and melted an unused alt into an identical copy to my main, just to be able to group ep side in open world while in the queue. Instant pops solo and sub 20 minute queues is are real thing. Even after shaving off the majority of high MMR and active battlegrounds players with Summerset. Battlegrounds looks healthy and competition (if duo with a high MMR player) is ok. A real eye opener. No wonder there is no ETA on the solution for high MMR.

Personally I was expecting to see queue times slowly lower with the new MMR system as other players increase their MMR over time but have only experienced increased queue times Ultimately no one wants to wait over 20 minutes for one match. So most don't. Only half a dozen players are prepared to wait, sometimes sitting in queues well over an hour.

Please cap the wait times guys.

LadyNalcarya

Carbonised wrote: »

The so-called MMr system is a joke. I am AvA rank 30, and I have plenty of experience from BGs too. I consistently end up as top of my 4 man group, in term of personal medals, or at least as number 2. And my teammates for the large majority consists of PvE scrubs, usually with AvA below 10, and with PvE titles on their characters.

This ends up with the majority of my BG matches playing out with my team becoming the losing one, or at top number 2 in the match, while I score a personal medal score top of my team, and usually double that of the other team mates.

Which begs the question, why does the ranking system consistently put me on teams with team mates that are objectively way below my skill and ranking, while the opposing teams more often than not consist of pros who steamroll over us.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I think when a system makes a group, it counts average mmr, so in this case you're just used to boost their average mmr so they can be queued against stronger group.

SlippyCheeze

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

The so-called MMr system is a joke. I am AvA rank 30, and I have plenty of experience from BGs too. I consistently end up as top of my 4 man group, in term of personal medals, or at least as number 2. And my teammates for the large majority consists of PvE scrubs, usually with AvA below 10, and with PvE titles on their characters.

This ends up with the majority of my BG matches playing out with my team becoming the losing one, or at top number 2 in the match, while I score a personal medal score top of my team, and usually double that of the other team mates.

Which begs the question, why does the ranking system consistently put me on teams with team mates that are objectively way below my skill and ranking, while the opposing teams more often than not consist of pros who steamroll over us.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I think when a system makes a group, it counts average mmr, so in this case you're just used to boost their average mmr so they can be queued against stronger group.

It is worth noting that, mathematically, you are more likely to face a group composed like this than to be on one; human biases mean you are more likely to remember being on them than winning against them.

Not that the MMR is completely accurate; Microsoft invested in "better" MMR for team games with TrueSkill™, though it isn't publicly documented to the best of my knowledge.

Really, though, improvements over ELO, or GLICKO, require someone producing a solid mathematical model that works better than they do, and documenting the advantages well enough for it to be adopted.

I will note that ELO, which is less good than GLICKO at adjusting to changes in skill, or initial placement, is used in games that are widely regarded as ... well, I can't say "nobody" thinks that LoL has bad matchmaking, but certainly, people think it is good enough to keep playing.

Thogard

Cap MMR. Too much variation between high MMR players means it takes too long to get matched up against each other.

The top 10% of MMR characters should all cap to the same amount. This will keep them out of the low MMR matches but allow quick match ups with each other.

Valabrog

I wonder does your MMR rank expires at some point? Like if you dont play a few days you should drop lower on ladders?

Hoked_on_ponix

I have probably 250+ BG wins on my main but I get pretty fast Queues when I queue solo, like 5 minutes or less. I also usually am top 1-3 in the game with a lot of medals too. I wonder if Xbox NA has a bigger pool of higher MMR players? IDK the MMR thing is super confusing I wish they would just have a normal ranking system that was public and rewards and queues were based off of it.

Valabrog

Well, one could definitely agree that this is the worst PVP mmr system in a modern mmorpg history...

Fake Remedy

I must say, the sub culture of pvp on low mmr twinked characters in Battlegrounds is beaming. this is my life now. no wonder queues aren't getting shorter

Thanks guys! great work, keep it up.

ChunkyCat

I’m remaking my stam sorc just to play BGs.