Sneaking and Cloak based 'Monster' Set

Avran_Sylt

Premise: Useful for hit-n-run type playstyle in PvP, and acting as a Sneak benefit in PvE.

A 2pc Set for Shoulders and Head granted by the Shadowscales in the Murkmire DLC.

"Hunter's Shade":
1pc While out of Combat reduce the time it takes to enter sneak by 50%
2pc After Stunning an Enemy, your next Roll-dodge cloaks you for 3s

-Would you use it?
-Are there ways this could be abused?
-Do you have any suggestions regarding it?

MerlinPendragon

I would definitely like to see a monster set focused on stealth abilities.

Not sure about your 2pc suggestion, perhaps something along the lines of a stamina cost reduction and/or benefit to the first attack made after coming out of stealth.

Spartabunny08

I got one. With cloak activated all debuffs removed and 3 sec immunity...lol bye bye sloads...

Skullstachio

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Premise: Useful for hit-n-run type playstyle in PvP, and acting as a Sneak benefit in PvE.

A 2pc Set for Shoulders and Head granted by the Shadowscales in the Murkmire DLC.

"Hunter's Mantle":
1pc Reduces the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
2pc After Stunning an Enemy, your next Roll-dodge cloaks you for 4s

-Would you use it?
-Are there ways this could be abused?
-Do you have any suggestions regarding it?

the set you suggested itself is broken to a degree, can you imagine what it can do with a Vampire with the "Dark Stalker" passive during the night hours.

you may as well make it a utility set...

SilverWF

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Premise: Useful for hit-n-run type playstyle in PvP, and acting as a Sneak benefit in PvE.

A 2pc Set for Shoulders and Head granted by the Shadowscales in the Murkmire DLC.

"Hunter's Mantle":
1pc Reduces the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
2pc After Stunning an Enemy, your next Roll-dodge cloaks you for 4s

-Would you use it?
-Are there ways this could be abused?
-Do you have any suggestions regarding it?

-Would you use it?
Sure I would! Such OP

-Are there ways this could be abused?
A million ways.

-Do you have any suggestions regarding it?
Do not create it.

Maryal

No.

Each class has it's own 'defensive paring' skills ... skills that help to allow healing to 'do it's thing.'

Templars have it's awesome purge
DKs have wings
Sorcs have shields as well as their zoom zoom ability
Wardens have their damage shield and a free (spammable) purge with their netch
Healers have, well, they have shield/wards.

What do NBs have? Cloak ... when it works. We need it to get out of harms way in order to give our healing DOT a chance to work. I'm not just talking about the dot suppression, but helping us to get to a LOS.

Having an armor or monster set that gives all classes the NB defensive paring ability gives them the opportunity to have 2 or more defensive paring skills in their tool kit, but not the NB. NBs would suffer a 'net loss' by virtue of the fact that all the other classes could bump up their defensive paring skills ... except NBs.

So no.

Avran_Sylt

@Alpha-Lupi

Huh. Didn't know Dark Stalker gave a buff to the time taken into Sneak. It would function Multiplicatively with the bonus, but I assume that even having 75% total Sneak-time reduction would be troublesome.

And yes, the goal is to make it a utility set that aids with Sneaking and Escape. Generally with the 1pc, and to a niche degree with the 2pc. How do you mean to make it more "Utility"? Rather, how might you approach it?

@SilverWF
In what ways could it be abused?

Avran_Sylt

@Maryal

And a NB would get a free 4s Cloak alongside a Sneak bonus, as well as having the ability to cloak baked into their kit.

The point of this isn't to make Cloak something easily spammable to all classes, but to give other classes a 'discount' cloak that can be achieved with a little setup. (Balances itself in PvP 1v1 with CC immunity duration acting as a ICD, but also allowing 1vXer's a method to dodge-and weave multiple opponents too, considering that they micro-manage opponent CC timers.)

Being a Monster Set it will generally take up a spot that nearly everyone wants to have something else slotted with. There's a reason this set offers zero stat bonuses. It is quite literally a Utility set that limits Offensive power for Defensive Power through means of Utility. Offering Offensive Power solely based on the users skill.

Skullstachio

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Alpha-Lupi

Huh. Didn't know Dark Stalker gave a buff to the time taken into Sneak. It would function Multiplicatively with the bonus, but I assume that even having 75% total Sneak-time reduction would be troublesome.

And yes, the goal is to make it a utility set that aids with Sneaking and Escape. Generally with the 1pc, and to a niche degree with the 2pc. How do you mean to make it more "Utility"? Rather, how might you approach it?

I honestly would not know for sure, but given it could have a piece setup similar to the sets like Willpower, endurance, etc. It could blend in like so.

also, the time to crouch bonus from the dark stalker passive only works at night in-game just in case you didn't know but something tells me about 90% of the forums (possibly including yourself) already know of this.

Hunters Shade:

• 2: Reduces the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
• 2: adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery.
• 3: Your Next Roll Dodge used within 3 seconds of Stunning a Target Shrouds you in Darkness, becoming invisible for 3 seconds. this can only occur once every 12 seconds.

More Importantly, adding a cooldown to the effect also prevents abuse to a degree so people do not complain too much, kinda like sloads before the WolfHunter PTS.

Avran_Sylt

@Maryal

And Sidenote:
Templar Purges has Efficient purge as the discount copy.
Sorc Shields has Harness Magicka.
DK reflect discount is the SnB skill-line
Wardens... Well that Purge itself is just a discount Templar Purge. And the shield is a weird bastardized mix of DK reflect. Still useful though.

Avran_Sylt

@Alpha-Lupi

Nah, barely play Vamp. good to learn more about that passive. Cool constraint being time-of-day based. Nicely Thematic.

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

I honestly would not know for sure, but given it could have a piece setup similar to the sets like Willpower, endurance, etc. It could blend in like so.

also, the time to crouch bonus from the dark stalker passive only works at night in-game just in case you didn't know but something tells me about 90% of the forums (possibly including yourself) already know of this.

Hunters Shade:

• 2: Reduces the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
• 2: adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery.
• 3: Your Next Roll Dodge used within 3 seconds of Stunning a Target Shrouds you in Darkness, becoming invisible for 3 seconds. this can only occur once every 12 seconds.

More Importantly, adding a cooldown to the effect also prevents abuse to a degree so people do not complain too much, kinda like sloads before the WolfHunter PTS.

I like the name.

As a 3pc, that could be interesting, but the reason I kinda want it to be Head and Shoulders is specifically so you can't pair it with a monster set like Selene's, Velidreth. or Tremorscale. (Though adding some stam recovery to the piece could be nice)

TBH, I want it to get the cooldown effect from the CC Immune duration on a player. Allowing the set itself to be restricted in small-scale content but also allowing it to scale up against larger groups without adding any offensive power.

The change to the duration of the cloak from 4s to 3s is probably a good idea though.

idk

1. should have a more limited time. We already go into sneak fast enough in PvP. I think that is the reasoning behind vamps going into sneak faster only at night.
2. A chance to go into stealth for 4 seconds would probably be a better choice.

At that, there is probably better ideas that would be worth considering since neither does actual damage. As it is I would not wear the 2pc.

Avran_Sylt

@idk

1.In regards to the sneak entrance speed, would it be better if that bonus was only active while out of combat? Such that it doesn't make it too easy for gankers to pop and duck.

2. I'm still not fond of chance based interactions, especially when tied with a cooldown. but could see it being implemented via chance to cloak on dodging an attack with a cooldown.

Eh. Wanted to think about non-proc sets and non-stat buff sets. Came up with this. Certainly isn't for everyone.

Skullstachio

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Alpha-Lupi

Nah, barely play Vamp. good to learn more about that passive. Cool constraint being time-of-day based. Nicely Thematic.

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

I honestly would not know for sure, but given it could have a piece setup similar to the sets like Willpower, endurance, etc. It could blend in like so.

also, the time to crouch bonus from the dark stalker passive only works at night in-game just in case you didn't know but something tells me about 90% of the forums (possibly including yourself) already know of this.

Hunters Shade:

• 2: Reduces the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
• 2: adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery.
• 3: Your Next Roll Dodge used within 3 seconds of Stunning a Target Shrouds you in Darkness, becoming invisible for 3 seconds. this can only occur once every 12 seconds.

More Importantly, adding a cooldown to the effect also prevents abuse to a degree so people do not complain too much, kinda like sloads before the WolfHunter PTS.

I like the name.

As a 3pc, that could be interesting, but the reason I kinda want it to be Head and Shoulders is specifically so you can't pair it with a monster set like Selene's, Velidreth. or Tremorscale. (Though adding some stam recovery to the piece could be nice)

TBH, I want it to get the cooldown effect from the CC Immune duration on a player. Allowing the set itself to be restricted in small-scale content but also allowing it to scale up against larger groups without adding any offensive power.

The change to the duration of the cloak from 4s to 3s is probably a good idea though.

Oh definitely, because as soon as I imagined a Nightblade using this set, well wouldn't that be slightly catastrophic considering the skill "Shadowy Disguise" can last up to 2.9 seconds(with the dark veil passive). that and certain dremora fearkyn (usually the ones in Elden Hollow II) have a nasty habit of turning invisible to disorient players in the group.

If you need to know more about vampire passives and the like, you can always consult the UESP on vampires in the link below.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

idk

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@idk

1.In regards to the sneak entrance speed, would it be better if that bonus was only active while out of combat? Such that it doesn't make it too easy for gankers to pop and duck.

2. I'm still not fond of chance based interactions, especially when tied with a cooldown. but could see it being implemented via chance to cloak on dodging an attack with a cooldown.

Eh. Wanted to think about non-proc sets and non-stat buff sets. Came up with this. Certainly isn't for everyone.

No since one cannot enter sneak while near enemies and I think one has to be out of combat as it is. idk, still get the sneak bug in cyro.

Guaranteed stealth on dodge roll is pretty sweet. Maybe a little to sweet. Certainly open to the QQ threads regardless and Zos will nerf if enough QQ threads are started regardless of logic of lack of it.

Besides, I do not think a set like this will happen. Really to niche even within PvP as most of the time we all will prefer something else. In PvE solo questing the 2 pc is useless as it will cause everything to reset.

Expert

I disagree with this idea, the game is about interaction in an online MMORPG. Not hiding from each other, and u can interact with either PVP or PVE or Roleplay. Hiding has it's own separate world, those are where the dark people go...

RouDeR

1 piece : weapon and spell damage
2 piece : removes the Stamina Recovery penalty while sneaking and moving

Starlock

I wouldn't use it, no. The problem is it requires you to have stunned an enemy, and stun is a fairly rare status effect. The theme of the set would fit with my plucky wood elf archer, but she only has three ways to stun people - Sellistrix monster set (which would be removed to use this one), draining shot (which I usually don't slot), or hitting an enemy from stealth. If the proc was instead activated when setting a foe off-balance, yes, it would work really well for her. Add some sort of cooldown for the set and it'd probably be something I'd run over Sellistrix.