Fake Tanks

areeb14_ESO

I'm getting tired of going into a dungeon with no tank because some DPS didn't want to wait for dungeon que. I'm not talking max level high Champion level guys. Those I can understand and they can kill rapidly. I mean low level no taunting idiots queing as tank so everyone else has to run from the boss while they're wailing away with their weapon and not even doing enough damage to get the bosses attention.

Starlock

I don’t find ‘tanks’ who don’t hold the boss frustrating in of themselves. I mostly do norms, which are quite doable without. What I find frustrating is when the person who has the aggro won’t stand still when there is a real healer in the group. Block on heavy abilities and you’ll be fine. The healer has you covered, and everyone can use their AoEs. And if you have good self heals or shields, there is really no excuse for not standing still if you have the aggro.

Faffox

Boot them or leave.

areeb14_ESO

Faffox wrote: »

Boot them or leave.

I left and reported them. I'm just sick and tired of people abusing the fact that any class can do any job.

VilniusNastavnik

Ill just run my 22k health mag sorc as a tank for rand norms. Back bar shield n sword.. hardened ward gives more than enough defence for any mormal. Add in dps being max cp.. wouldnt do this in vet.. but for enlightenment burning..

DaveMoeDee

As a tank, I'm tired of fake DPS. Hell, high DPS can clear the base vet dungeons without me.

Why should people good at nothing be able to queue as DD? I find no damage just as frustrating as you find fake tanks. I just judge them less harshly because they aren't trying to cheat the system, though they ruin dungeon runs just the same.

Steel_Brightblade

A few times I've experienced the oddity of tanks queuing as dps, resulting in agro problems and dps so low dps checks can't be passed. Why do idiots do this!

SakuraRush

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

A few times I've experienced the oddity of tanks queuing as dps, resulting in agro problems and dps so low dps checks can't be passed. Why do idiots do this!

They aren't tanks or dps. They are PvP builds. They do this because they want the gear without doing the content.

Call them out on it, carry them along as far as you feel like, then boot them before the end.

ktdotexe

It takes me bloody ages to get into a group as a DPS, but I would never queue under a fake class just to get in quicker - I couldn't handle the shame!

I had one person say to me; "I'm not a tank but you can kick me idc lol" - ...then why are you here?

DocFrost72

Understandable complaint, so what do you want done?

Jeremy

areeb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm getting tired of going into a dungeon with no tank because some DPS didn't want to wait for dungeon que. I'm not talking max level high Champion level guys. Those I can understand and they can kill rapidly. I mean low level no taunting idiots queing as tank so everyone else has to run from the boss while they're wailing away with their weapon and not even doing enough damage to get the bosses attention.

It's a real problem and one I've been complaining about for awhile now.

They need to do something about it.

Bodži

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging:

Tank - certain skills need to be equiped and health check + adding tanking specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon - taunt, 1h%s equipment.
Healer - certain skills need to be equiped based on class + adding healing specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normalDLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon + resto staff locked.
DDs - adding DPS achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons.

Premade groups can do whatever they want as long as there is 4 of them.

Jeremy

Bodži wrote: »

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging:

Tank - certain skills need to be equiped and health check + adding tanking specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon - taunt, 1h%s equipment.
Healer - certain skills need to be equiped based on class + adding healing specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normalDLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon + resto staff locked.
DDs - adding DPS achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons.

Premade groups can do whatever they want as long as there is 4 of them.

This is probably the best idea I've read yet: to have specific role-oriented achievements necessary in order to access content as those specific roles. This could actually work I believe.

SO I hope the developers read your post.

Adzer2

Maybe we could get a short test area before the dungeon begins to show how much DPS the DD's have, how much damage a tank can take and how much HoT the healer can do?

Gothrock

Adzer2 wrote: »

Maybe we could get a short test area before the dungeon begins to show how much DPS the DD's have, how much damage a tank can take and how much HoT the healer can do?

LOL.
5 minutes to test all roles, next 5 minutes to find a new healer to test him in a 2 minutes and then start. I'll better do a dungeon with a bad healer in twelve minutes instead of this madness.

p.s. I dont use group finder for hard dlc dungeons

YamiKuruku

areeb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm getting tired of going into a dungeon with no tank because some DPS didn't want to wait for dungeon que. I'm not talking max level high Champion level guys. Those I can understand and they can kill rapidly. I mean low level no taunting idiots queing as tank so everyone else has to run from the boss while they're wailing away with their weapon and not even doing enough damage to get the bosses attention.

me: please don't queue as a tank if you don't taunt
level 48 person, not even doing 3k damage or participating in fight : chill it's an easy dungeon, faster queue

in the end i needed to slot a taunt because the boss was hugging the healer the whole time-
I am already used to high damage dds that queue as tanks and we get a fast run but... players like that? it's so sad people tell others to queue as a tank because 'no one needs a tank, normal is easy'
normal is only easy when everyone knows what they are doing and there are no total newbs that spam only one skill - but hey, who cares right?

Bodži wrote: »

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging

^i really like that idea but not sure how one could do that without having a too long queue

mikemacon

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Ill just run my 22k health mag sorc as a tank for rand norms. Back bar shield n sword.. hardened ward gives more than enough defence for any mormal. Add in dps being max cp.. wouldnt do this in vet.. but for enlightenment burning..

That's perfectly fine. In fact, that's a tank, not a fake tank.

As a bare, nonnegotiable minimum, a tank needs a taunt and then needs to stand the @#$% still once he has aggro to keep the boss from being pulled out of AOEs.

If you can do that, I'm beyond thrilled.

Debuffs/group buffs are nice but are secondary in everything but high end vet content.

Agenericname

YamiKuruku wrote: »

areeb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm getting tired of going into a dungeon with no tank because some DPS didn't want to wait for dungeon que. I'm not talking max level high Champion level guys. Those I can understand and they can kill rapidly. I mean low level no taunting idiots queing as tank so everyone else has to run from the boss while they're wailing away with their weapon and not even doing enough damage to get the bosses attention.

me: please don't queue as a tank if you don't taunt
level 48 person, not even doing 3k damage or participating in fight : chill it's an easy dungeon, faster queue

in the end i needed to slot a taunt because the boss was hugging the healer the whole time-
I am already used to high damage dds that queue as tanks and we get a fast run but... players like that? it's so sad people tell others to queue as a tank because 'no one needs a tank, normal is easy'
normal is only easy when everyone knows what they are doing and there are no total newbs that spam only one skill - but hey, who cares right?

Bodži wrote: »

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging

^i really like that idea but not sure how one could do that without having a too long queue

I'm not particularly sold on any new system. We have a viable solution now without ZoS' intervention, form your own group. That being said, longer queue times may turn out to be a blessing.

Tanks are in demand and most know it. A tank that falls anywhere in the range between decent and good can find a group. In many cases it behooves them not to PUG. What lacks is incentive. Abnormally long queues for DD and the inability, or at least difficulty in cheating the role, may provide that and add more tanks to the existing pool.

DocFrost72

Bodži wrote: »

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging:

Tank - certain skills need to be equiped and health check + adding tanking specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon - taunt, 1h%s equipment.
Healer - certain skills need to be equiped based on class + adding healing specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normalDLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon + resto staff locked.
DDs - adding DPS achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons.

Premade groups can do whatever they want as long as there is 4 of them.

This seems entirely too restrictive though. There's not a normal dungeon or non-dlc vet I cannot tank with 20k health and no sword and shield either bar, no ice staff either. Besides, locking skills or equipment is an absolutely terrible idea for specific fights. For drodda vet hm, there's no reason for the tank not to slot a dps spec really.

Getting a fake tank blows in vet dungeons for sure. Don't pug vets without a real tank if it is something you simply cannot stand. Ie- queue with a tank buddy. If you're on PCNA, I'll queue with you

fgulerneb18_ESO1

i hate both of them fake tank/dps actually there is no fake dps. they just dont know what to do and they doesnt want to learn.

MissBizz

Starlock wrote: »

I don’t find ‘tanks’ who don’t hold the boss frustrating in of themselves. I mostly do norms, which are quite doable without. What I find frustrating is when the person who has the aggro won’t stand still when there is a real healer in the group. Block on heavy abilities and you’ll be fine. The healer has you covered, and everyone can use their AoEs. And if you have good self heals or shields, there is really no excuse for not standing still if you have the aggro.

Very true, but if you're running normals there's a good chance you are with new players that don't know any better.

Ran into this last week, finally I just equipped an ice staff instead of inferno (I was on a lowbie, it's what I had lol) and gave the occasional taunt, stood still and DPS'd.

Mind you, I was on a lowbie... so I couldn't get DLC dungeons.

Raudgrani

When I need to run dungeons and do this in activity finder, I go with my argonian warden (S&B) healer. It's a better healer AND tank than most are, I can even heal/tank many vet DLC dungeons with it, strangers are always amused when I do.
This shouldn't be necessary though, and I fully agree there should be some way to report people who slot all three roles, just to get into dungeons. Normal non-DLC ones, alright, but queue for vet content on a fake tank = shame on you.

LordSarevok

I run a real tank, and a "fake tank". If I know the dps, and we are going into a harder content area, I take my real tank. If we are going into a easy dungeon/area, I take my fake tank. My sorc runs inner fire and hardened ward. I can half ass dps and tank the mob in one spot. Doesn't matter on most content either. Learning when to bash interrupt, tactical blocking, and positioning are everything as a tank.

Nothing makes me more angry though than running my pure DK tank, all gold Alkosh/Ebon (does almost zero dps) and watching a dps light attack his way through advanced content. With my guild we run most dungeons with just my tank and 3 dps, or just 4 dps. Occasionally you have to PUG though.

We can do something about fake tanks when they make others have a dps check for levels of content. Can't pull over 10k dps? Sorry you can't enter this dungeon.

Bad tank? Can probably still make it through. Bad healer? Vigor, pots, and other self heals/ulti can probably still make it through. Bad dps? You aren't making it.

*edit* spelling.

LordSarevok

If I come across ignorant players, I usually invite them to my newbie guild to help guide them. I was a noob once. But even when I was a noob, I researched the *** out of my role and practiced, before I wasted other peoples time.

remilafo

Just adapt, makes you stronger in the end. Depending on a quote "Real tank" just means you lake the flexibility to survive.

No Dungeon requires a quote "real tank" infact

- any normal dungeon and trials can be accomplished with a mishmash of whatever really.
- With the exception of a few bosses, almost all veteran dungeon content can be done without a tank, 1 healer and 3 dps are okay. Also often 1 tank and 3 dps is fine also. Infact 4 dps/solo builds like for Vma for example do veteran content just fine.
- Even some trials can be done without a tank like VDSA

The point is, stop complaining and adapt. Or as the internet says GIT GUD

pelle412

If you don't like fake tanks you have two choices:

1. Use a pre-formed group with a real tank.
2. Don't run dungeons.

As long as the dungeon finder queue can be skipped by pretending to be a tank, players will do so. It's life. There's really nothing ZoS can do about this that doesn't require the whole system to be redesigned.

Salvas_Aren

areeb14_ESO wrote: »

Faffox wrote: »

Boot them or leave.

I left and reported them. I'm just sick and tired of people abusing the fact that any class can do any job.

Report, for what? Negative impact on your overall gaming experience?

That's so cheap.

LadyNalcarya

remilafo wrote: »

Just adapt, makes you stronger in the end. Depending on a quote "Real tank" just means you lake the flexibility to survive.

No Dungeon requires a quote "real tank" infact

- any normal dungeon and trials can be accomplished with a mishmash of whatever really.
- With the exception of a few bosses, almost all veteran dungeon content can be done without a tank, 1 healer and 3 dps are okay. Also often 1 tank and 3 dps is fine also. Infact 4 dps/solo builds like for Vma for example do veteran content just fine.
- Even some trials can be done without a tank like VDSA

The point is, stop complaining and adapt. Or as the internet says GIT GUD

1 healer +3 dds is significantly worse than 1 tank+ 3 dds. It doesnt matter how much you heal, you'll still see deaths due to oneshots (when someone didnt block or dodge that heavy attack etc) and total dps is lower when a dd kites a heavy-hitting boss. Of course, I'm not talking about stuff like Fungal Grotto 1, but you can solo that dungeon anyway.

Its true that roles dont really matter in normals, but its still an opportunity for a new player to learn the basics of their role. "We dont need tanks and healers" motto discourages players who would choose support roles, and its one of the reasons why there's not enough of them in group finder.

Bodži

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Bodži wrote: »

Some checks need to be implemented by ZOS for pugging:

Tank - certain skills need to be equiped and health check + adding tanking specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon - taunt, 1h%s equipment.
Healer - certain skills need to be equiped based on class + adding healing specific achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normalDLC dungeons. These checked skills (1 or 2 of them) would then be locked through the course of dungeon + resto staff locked.
DDs - adding DPS achievements that would unlock specific veteran/normal DLC dungeons.

Premade groups can do whatever they want as long as there is 4 of them.

This seems entirely too restrictive though. There's not a normal dungeon or non-dlc vet I cannot tank with 20k health and no sword and shield either bar, no ice staff either. Besides, locking skills or equipment is an absolutely terrible idea for specific fights. For drodda vet hm, there's no reason for the tank not to slot a dps spec really.

Getting a fake tank blows in vet dungeons for sure. Don't pug vets without a real tank if it is something you simply cannot stand. Ie- queue with a tank buddy. If you're on PCNA, I'll queue with you

I agree it is a bit restrictive. When I wrote this I didnt mean that all dungeons would be locked out behind this. For example normal non DLC ones. or something else. But in order for you to advance and do harder ones - you would need to have certain achievements and/or other checks for that role.

I just did CoH1 on normal minutes ago where level 25 queued in as all three roles and got in a group as tank of course.
This still needs to happen because new people need to learn how game works. He would also get help, someone will whisper him and tell him "hey, if you wanna be tank check this, this and this in order to know what to do". I would not like this happening on WGT or ICP though even if he is CP200 or CP750.

A bit off topic but eso is really missing content between dungeons and trials, something for 8 sized groups. 1/2 tanks + 1 healer + 5-6 DPS

GarnetFire17

That is what is what happens when there is not enough REAL tanks queing for dungeons. I don't like it either but it is what it is. I recommend BEING the real tank instead of just complaining. You shouldn't ever wait more that 1 min in a que that way as well.

D0PAMINE

SakuraRush wrote: »

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

A few times I've experienced the oddity of tanks queuing as dps, resulting in agro problems and dps so low dps checks can't be passed. Why do idiots do this!

They aren't tanks or dps. They are PvP builds. They do this because they want the gear without doing the content.

Call them out on it, carry them along as far as you feel like, then boot them before the end.

Booting them at the end just for spite is abusing the system and petty, grow up.