Request for More Much-Needed Trade Guild Vendors

Mystrius_Archaion

kargen27 wrote: »

I disagree. A listing in one place means three people can monopolize rare items easily. It is a problem in other game that have a central market system. These three people are not going to care who they are buying from or who they are selling to so the anonymity doesn't come into play.

Predetermined price takes away a part of the game that a lot of players really enjoy. The system we have in ESO allows for players that want to flip items the ability to do that like no auction house could. It allows players to shop for bargains and allows players who do not care about price to just grab what then need and go. Admittedly an intuitive search in the guild trader menu would streamline the process without having an affect on game play.

An unintended exploit in the game isn't a reason to scrap one of the main features of the game.

All that already happens, except easier because many people only bother going to the conveniently located guild traders where the prices can be flipped even higher due to convenience.

Have you ever thought about the real world why gas stations have different prices on gas for the same company just a few miles difference? Or why gas stations have more expensive products that a grocery store even if they do the same amount of business in that item?
You pay for convenience.

If we do away with the effect of convenience we can see the actual value of items and have a healthier economy.
In a game as large as ESO, there is no way a few players can command the market that well with flipping.
But, the market control is prevented by item slot limits anyway as they can't buy up all the listings of everything and repost them all. They don't have enough slots to exert enough control. They have enough slots now to exert control because they also control the entire trader list so they can completely block competitor listings from the convenience sales.

I've seen global auction houses work very well.
In fact, the best I've seen was in City of Heroes where all sale prices were not shown. It was a blind bid system. Players could bid on existing for sale items and either bid what they think it is worth or creep up their bids repeatedly until they find the actual price. They could also bid on items that aren't currently for sale so that when one is posted then they would get it if their bid was higher than the list price. They did show a record of previous sales but not a long list and it only showed what the winning bid was and not the actual listing price.
That system in CoH was genius because of the fact that the highest bid went to the lowest listed seller. It truly distributed wealth and kept prices in check by keeping them in that middle ground.

There is just one example they could use which would fix the problems with the current system without creating more.

Mystrius_Archaion

kwisatz wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

Some players will be happier some will leave the game. I know a lot of players that think the best and most fun part of the game is buying/selling with the system that is in place. Don't assume because you do not like a particular feature nobody else likes it either.

Just my case. I don't want any auction house. I like the current system. I'm no top trader, no big fortune, but I really have fun selling and buying and looking for that good bargain in some remote little town...
WoW has that, SWTOR does this, FF...

Proof that there is plenty of games out there that meet your tastes.
Please stop wanting this game to be a clone of others and doing so ruining it to those wo love it as it is.

Really? "Please stop wanting..."

Do you even know why we have computers and video games or live in houses with flush toilets and running water?
Being happy with "things as they are" is not who we as living creatures are. If we were we would still be naked living in trees, picking bugs out of our hair and thinking of nothing but eating and sleeping and mating and fearing for our lives at any sound that might be some predator that would eat us.

You didn't even say "it's good enough" and we could definitely argue that it is not. Even if you did say "it is good enough" then the obvious answer to that is "it can be better" which then leads to "it should be better" and the inevitable answer we already gave of "look at these examples where it is better already".

Learn from the past or be doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

frausty

On XBOX EU this is a major issue. Even minor trading locations are going for millions in gold every week and, as part of two well-established guilds with healthy bank balances, it has now become virtually impossible to seal a top trading location every week unless we want to empty the bank completely. Trading locations that used to cost a few hundred thousand or even a million are now going for large multiples of these numbers.

The answer isn't more traders but improving the locations of those traders. Sure, keep a few out in the wilderness but either put more in major cities or by frequently used wayshrines or really consider the use of an auction house. Personally, I would like a combination of both but that may be too much to ask or indeed code but something has to be done before this becomes a critical issue.

Elsterchen

I recently found out that some people don't know about guild traders in Cyrodiil. I hope mentioning this might solve some of your trouble for some of you.

In case you didn't knew:

Whenever you claim a ressource, outpost or keep for your guild the merchant of this structure will not only sell the normal shop-items, but also works as guild vendor for your guild (just try the: guild store - option once in a while when interacting with cyros merchants at keeps, ressources and outposts).

Obviously: when the structure is lost to the enemy your claim and vendor is lost, too. BUT claiming a structure costs 0 gold... usually a group of 20 guildmembers is more then enough to claim a structure (well, take some more ppl during events).

Have fun!

edit: Oh yeah, and please don't forget to tell your guildies to actually put stuff in the guild store using the sell option at any banker anywhere in tamriel... its very frustating to go shopping in an empty store.

kargen27

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

Some players will be happier some will leave the game. I know a lot of players that think the best and most fun part of the game is buying/selling with the system that is in place. Don't assume because you do not like a particular feature nobody else likes it either.

FYI, they can do the same thing in other games with a global auction house just as well, in fact it is easier. The flippers love global auction houses because they can see everything quicker and flip it faster for a faster profit also since they don't have to determine which trader is the best, without worry of losing that trader also.
They will love it.

Also, addons pretty much have created a global auction house now that everyone can easily find out where the cheapest item is on Tamriel Trade Centre.

No they really can't. You see if everything is in one place there is no need to go out hunting. Flipping comes down to who is online when the bargain is posted and nothing else. That lends itself to two or three people being able to monopolize the market on rare drops just by taking shifts sitting on the auction house. As you have just admitted it is easy to do.

I would like to see a watered down version of TTC in the game. Maybe a place in each zone that allows you to search the traders in that zone but doesn't provide the prices. That way you can see what a trader may have but still have to visit a few if you are bargain hunting.

Even better would be an intuitive search inside the guild trader menu that allows searching that particular vendors items when you visit. The system does need work but global is not the answer. Takes just a minute or two reading user forums for other MMOs to know that.

1) All the problems everyone says a global auction house would cause are already in this game and actually worse with the current trader system.

2) There are other problems with the current system that would be solved by a global auction house.
For example, guild-less players and guilds that don't get a trader cannot sell currently, which is unfair. That makes the rich richer and the poor poorer as they can only buy. Another example is the fact that the prices are inflated on items that aren't even flipped because people are too lazy to check anywhere else for prices and just go with the most convenient traders, benefiting the richest guild that bid for that trader and won it.

Seriously, it would be nothing but good to have a global auction house.
You claim it would drive down prices but it wouldn't. The prices would still be flipped higher or lower because they're too common an item anyway. It would just eliminate the "monopolies" created by convenient trader locations.
Aren't monopolies bad for a healthy economy and yet here you are arguing for them to continue?

Yes monopolies are bad. That is why I am against a central auction house. What is easier. Going to one location and buying every rare item you see or going to over 200 locations to buy those same items?

People sell in zone chat all the time.

Lazy people is no reason to change the way the game plays.

I didn't claim it would drive prices down but yeah it would drive prices down on common items. The bigger concern though is it would drive the prices higher on rare items.

There are no monopolies now. None. Over 200 independent traders make getting a monopoly next to impossible. I say next to impossible because even though it hasn't happened yet I suppose if 300-350 people wanted to take 12 hour shifts doing nothing but checking vendors they may be able to monopolize a market. With a global auction house three people staying on eight hours at a time could do it.

Coatmagic

*Looks around* this seems like an okay spot...

Erm, why did I come across multiple traders for the same guild(s) while out shopping the other day...?
If this is actually possible, and not some bug on my end, it SHOULD NOT BE.

Just sayin'...

Elwendryll

There are already enough guild traders occupied by guilds that don't sell anything interesting (or just not a lot of items). Why would you add others guild vendors? Just bid on a trader you can get. Otherwise, adding spots in the best locations will just lead to the relocation of some wealthy guilds.

martinhpb16_ESO

idk wrote: »

^^^ that petitions are not permitted in the forums.

Also, Zos has added vendors every 3 months. The most desirable locations will always be the most volatile. That it how supply and demand works. Guilds that cannot hang get pushed out and settle for a slightly less desirable location that works for them. If not they get headaches.

Considering I am in a couple non trade guilds that often get a guild trader it seems there is not an over abundance.

Thx Antonio for helping OP out.

I guess you are not involved with running a trade guild and are therefore unaware of the very real issues.

martinhpb16_ESO

- Factions with big money holding spots with proxy guilds then disbanding when one of their guilds loses so they can take that spot.
- Guilds bidding on spots multiple times their earnings and donations
- Personal time sync involved by GMs and officers just to raise the cash for bids (yes we are working for you Zos!)
- Game of Thrones style spying, infighting, sniping and alliances

I could go on. unless you are directly involved in running a trade guild tbh you really dont know the true picture.

I agree with the OP more spots (near to way shrines are a must) the system is creaking.

Ratzkifal

This thread in summary is brought to you by Ratzkifal. Ratzkifal - we clearly have too much time.

Problem with current system:
too much competition over viable trading spots is limiting the number of trading guilds (monopolies) and incentives gold buying.
(To the people here saying "where is your proof", naming and shaming is not allowed here but there exist screenshots -that may be fake ofc- of a skype conversation of a major trading guild leader talking to a gold seller about buying gold. This was supposedly briefly visible on a stream).

Proposed solution:
an auction house to remove competition among trading guilds

Problem with auction house:
item prices go up as the richest players have an easier time dictating item prices (buy anything below X resell for 2X aka monopolies). This may not be the case for easily farmed materials but think of how much worse this will be with furniture blueprints, motifs and Aetherial Dust. People are already doing it, the auction house will make it much easier.
Removal of the incentive to form trading guilds (negative in case of social trading guilds, positive in case of toxic trading guilds).
Centralization of trade - possible technical challenge as everyone will be trading in the same city instead of city hopping potentially creating lag.


Proposed solution:
add more guild traders.

Problem with more guild traders:
adding more traders hardly matters as only the "main spots" are viable for the large trading guilds.
Bandaid Fix:
add more guild traders to the main cities to create more viable spots.

Alamakot

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Bandaid Fix:
add more guild traders to the main cities to create more viable spots.

some improvement to this fix:
remove single trader spots from outlaw refugees and overlands and settle them in main cities.

from my personal experience:
I really cant remember if I bought something at outlaws. once or twice TTC sent me there (do not remember zone), just to find out that item I looked for has been already sold.
Slightly better situation with those single "hidden by the road" spots -bought maybe 6-8 times. can remind Eastmarch and Coldharbour, 2 shoppings at each.

Next problem I see is: how to improve trading in some "weak" locations. Marbruk, Riften, Baandari at Malabar Tor -how often are you buying there? Evermore (PC EU) 2-3 years ago had something interesting from time to time, now nothing to buy.
DLC zones are (were) "nice" only for short time (some months) after release (besides, Hew's Bane has awful location, far from WS and complicated road). All these locations might be a challenge to new guilds, to fill those almost empty (atm) shops with items worth to buy (at proper price of course)

DarcyMardin

I don’t think more traders throughout the world would help, but more traders in the prime locations like Mournhold and Rawl’ka might. Or a global auction house, which I would personally prefer.

Vanguard1

I realize that bringing in an Auction house would eliminate trading guilds. While this is only a problem if the guilds refused to switch from raffles and Auctions to group activities. There is another solution, although not at good as an auction house but rather a solution to lower trader bids, keep trading guilds full and allow for a continued need for traders.

Set up a centralized auction house type system where only guilds with traders would have their items listed.. So the auction house would only allow postings from those with a trader.

The use of addons could allow a seller to see what the current price of the items they are selling much like TTC and MM do now.

This would mean every trader location would still allow people to buy things that were in the area as well as make every trader a similar value. Of course key sites in major cities would still be the most popular visited by those in the area. This would still mean bids would come down.

I believe this would solve much of the problems we are seeing atm. We have lost so many players due to the lack of an auction house. Everyone wants gold for something, and selling is the fastest way to get it.

Another problem is running from trader to trader takes hours if you hit them all. Traders in outlaw refuge get almost no visitors compared to their counter parts in the main city.

If you only care about making more popular areas, then the solution is simple, make sure all traders are close to the wayshrines, and have all crafting stations close, along with banks. The more open the area is the more popular it will become. Look at Wrothgar, this is an example of how not to set up a city, Rawl and Deshaan are more popular for a reason, follow this model more closely. Even putting in a wall to go around or a door way gives the perception of taking longer than an open location.

RD065

No offense but trade guilds stink. How much time they think I have going from guild after guild after guild to try to buy something - that eventually I can't find and it's wasted time. I know others aren't in favor of an auction house but I so wish they had them.

Jameliel

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

please not this crap again.

we had almost two hole weeks without people whining about an auction house that is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.


GET OVER IT.

Wake up z0$ and make a global auction house. The current system is laughable at best, and complete garbage at worst. For the people who claim to love the current system so much, let them band together and set up their own little trade network. Make sure you guys never use an auction house in any mmo you play since you think they're so bad.

pdblake

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

I like this idea.

rumple9

ZOS really needs to have a good look at the whole guild system as it ruins the game in its present state.

Also 30 trade slots simply is not enough, given all the stuff we pick up that can be sold. Lack of storage space means a lot of it has to be vendored or deconned

Numerikuu

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

Some players will be happier some will leave the game. I know a lot of players that think the best and most fun part of the game is buying/selling with the system that is in place. Don't assume because you do not like a particular feature nobody else likes it either.

FYI, they can do the same thing in other games with a global auction house just as well, in fact it is easier. The flippers love global auction houses because they can see everything quicker and flip it faster for a faster profit also since they don't have to determine which trader is the best, without worry of losing that trader also.
They will love it.

Also, addons pretty much have created a global auction house now that everyone can easily find out where the cheapest item is on Tamriel Trade Centre.

Pretty much. Made billions on Aion back in the day this way.

MacCait

There are 3 problems...

1: Too few guild trader spots vs the amount of guilds in game.

2: Rich trader guilds war on each other and create fake/dummy guilds, and buy up trader spots with these fake guilds just to block off competition, and or secure a backup plan should they lose a bid.

but this isn't the biggest problem... the biggest problem is:

3: A small group of people can corner the market by buying a great many trader guilds, becoming multi-billionaires, then buying out all trader spots so that the legit guilds have no chance to trade fairly.

...On PS4 we have this problem, where very surprisingly, the main culprit is ONE GUY! You can read a post that uncovers what this guy has done here (and even more ironically, the fishing post was created buy this player):

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437994/most-fun-guild/p1

Donny_Vito

MacCait wrote: »

There are 3 problems...

1: Too few guild trader spots vs the amount of guilds in game.

2: Rich trader guilds war on each other and create fake/dummy guilds, and buy up trader spots with these fake guilds just to block off competition, and or secure a backup plan should they lose a bid.

but this isn't the biggest problem... the biggest problem is:

3: A small group of people can corner the market by buying a great many trader guilds, becoming multi-billionaires, then buying out all trader spots so that the legit guilds have no chance to trade fairly.

...On PS4 we have this problem, where very surprisingly, the main culprit is ONE GUY! You can read a post that uncovers what this guy has done here (and even more ironically, the fishing post was created buy this player):

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437994/most-fun-guild/p1

I checked out that link, and then realized it was 7 pages long and you didn't add a hasthtag at the end for a specific page/scroll position. Just lazy!! Help us out so we don't have to read 7 pages of BS before trying to read about this one guy.

skeezerbean

What I would love to see with this would be a dedicated area added with 50-100 guild traders available in a large circle around a wayshrine. No 'best' trader spot there, just a bazaar of traders to have. Or multiple rings of traders, so I suppose an inner ring of 8-10 traders may be the 'best' spots. A great marketplace like this would be awesome.

I don't think a global single market would work well with the lore here, but perhaps a global "buy order" could be placed with a caravan, giving a place to have players also list items they're looking to buy and be sold to directly. Who knows, and sorry to necro this a bit

Skwor

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Just ZOS, wake up and smell the dungheaps. Give us a universal auction house already so that anybody can trade, even the guild-less newbies. You'll see the benefits in player morale very quickly.

NO NO NO
AH will remove a much needed gold sink in trader auctions and always ruin any real personal trade action as well as be an overall bad thing for the economy.

RebornV3x

each of the major cities like Mournhold, Wayrest, Eldenroot need to have the number of available vendors atleast doubled and every regular town that already has 5 or 6 traders need 2 or 3 more and places like Davons Watch which only has one trader need to have 4 or 5 more.

eklhaftb16_ESO

Remove auctions altogether; assign merchants to registered trade guilds by lottery. Have a big fee to apply for a capital city merchant, a medium fee to apply for a town / quest hub merchant, and a small fee to apply for roadside merchant. If you don't succeed in winning a spot in your desired tier, you get part of your money back and you get dropped to lower tier.

therift

Every time someone posts about wanting an 'Auction House' in ESO, I take a few minutes to read the complaints about market manipulation in other MMOs and review the numerous guides on how to corner the market in those other MMOs.

'Auction House' will not solve the problems that the proponents think it will.

Mr_Walker

Anything that will get rid of the mass spamming of zone chat by people trying to hock their crap would be welcome.

therift

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Anything that will get rid of the mass spamming of zone chat by people trying to hock their crap would be welcome.

Point taken. However, I think most chat spammers will continue to spam chat since that is the path of least effort.

Perhaps linking items in zone chat should incur a fee much like players pay in traders

KMarble

Alamakot wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Bandaid Fix:
add more guild traders to the main cities to create more viable spots.

some improvement to this fix:
remove single trader spots from outlaw refugees and overlands and settle them in main cities.

I could be looking at this from the wrong point of view, but wouldn't adding more spots to the remote areas where there is only one trader be more beneficial?

The way I see it, some (most?) people don't bother checking on the traders outside the beaten path because it's too much hassle for just one small trader. But if other traders were added to the same location, it would bring more options and increase, by virtue of having a second or even a third trader, the amount of goods offered.

therift

KMarble wrote: »

Alamakot wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Bandaid Fix:
add more guild traders to the main cities to create more viable spots.

some improvement to this fix:
remove single trader spots from outlaw refugees and overlands and settle them in main cities.

I could be looking at this from the wrong point of view, but wouldn't adding more spots to the remote areas where there is only one trader be more beneficial?

The way I see it, some (most?) people don't bother checking on the traders outside the beaten path because it's too much hassle for just one small trader. But if other traders were added to the same location, it would bring more options and increase, by virtue of having a second or even a third trader, the amount of goods offered.

Several trade kiosks near a wayshrine would work anywhere. Good idea.

skeezerbean

wrote:

Several trade kiosks near a wayshrine would work anywhere. Good idea.

This is why I'd like to see a dedicated bazaar type area, with a bunch of guild traders all over. A large marketplace centralized in addition to things that already exist.