Crafting nodes should gradually accumulate over time, not re-spawn on fixed intervals

t1cky

If crafting nodes gradually accumulated, it would reduce the effect of everyone farming the same routes. Additionally, it would create an incentive to farm obscure and not-oft-farmed areas. This would reduce player fatigue of constantly farming the same areas.

Blacksmithing, etc. nodes would simply gradually collect mats., possibly up to some limit. An easy balancing solution would be to keep the overall resource spawn rate the same.

Chests could gradually improve, from simple to master.

Heavy sacks could gradually get better and more contents.

Discuss.

Maryal

no.

Starlock

Perhaps if bots did not exist, this might be interesting.

t1cky

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps if bots did not exist, this might be interesting.

This system disincentivizes botting, as hitting the same nodes over and over is penalized in the new system.

Taleof2Cities

t1cky wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps if bots did not exist, this might be interesting.

This system disincentivizes botting, as hitting the same nodes over and over is penalized in the new system.

Are you saying bots don’t adapt to new situations?

Starlock

t1cky wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps if bots did not exist, this might be interesting.

This system disincentivizes botting, as hitting the same nodes over and over is penalized in the new system.

Even on XBOX, I’ve seen bots that have programmed paths and move from node to node, unfortunately.

Elsonso

t1cky wrote: »

If crafting nodes gradually accumulated, it would reduce the effect of everyone farming the same routes. Additionally, it would create an incentive to farm obscure and not-oft-farmed areas. This would reduce player fatigue of constantly farming the same areas.

Blacksmithing, etc. nodes would simply gradually collect mats., possibly up to some limit. An easy balancing solution would be to keep the overall resource spawn rate the same.

Chests could gradually improve, from simple to master.

Heavy sacks could gradually get better and more contents.

For all we know, they do. Not seriously, but the point is that no node is going to hang around long enough in this game to find out.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Are you saying bots don’t adapt to new situations?

Bots cannot adapt. They are not AI. The person writing the scripts and botting software can add features to account for changes in the game, but that is the extent of the adaptation.

nemvar

lordrichter wrote: »

Bots cannot adapt. They are not AI. The person writing the scripts and botting software can add features to account for changes in the game, but that is the extent of the adaptation.

I'm no programmer but there are several ways to exploit the new system. For example: The bot would do his normal farming run in [Zone 1]. After he finished it once he will teleport to [Zone 2] and do another run there. Repeat for an amount of zones dependent on the amount of time nodes need to completly refill. After that amount of time the bot will return to [Zone 1] and repeat.

This would potentially even buff a single bot because he can now collect larger amounts of resources from essentially dead zones but it would also increase the diminishing returns of multiple bots on the same route.

t1cky

nemvar wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Bots cannot adapt. They are not AI. The person writing the scripts and botting software can add features to account for changes in the game, but that is the extent of the adaptation.

I'm no programmer but there are several ways to exploit the new system. For example: The bot would do his normal farming run in [Zone 1]. After he finished it once he will teleport to [Zone 2] and do another run there. Repeat for an amount of zones dependent on the amount of time nodes need to completly refill. After that amount of time the bot will return to [Zone 1] and repeat.

This would potentially even buff a single bot because he can now collect larger amounts of resources from essentially dead zones but it would also increase the diminishing returns of multiple bots on the same route.

Ok, but at a minimum this makes botting significantly more complicated. Most bots run pretty brain-dead routines. I see knocking down the majority of bots running simple routines in popular zones as a plus.

Also, I wasn't intending this to be a fix for botting. Maybe it would help; I don't think it would make anything worse. I think the target audience for any change is the people who are not botting. Zeni is really the only entity who can do anything about botting.

t1cky

lordrichter wrote: »

t1cky wrote: »

If crafting nodes gradually accumulated, it would reduce the effect of everyone farming the same routes. Additionally, it would create an incentive to farm obscure and not-oft-farmed areas. This would reduce player fatigue of constantly farming the same areas.

Blacksmithing, etc. nodes would simply gradually collect mats., possibly up to some limit. An easy balancing solution would be to keep the overall resource spawn rate the same.

Chests could gradually improve, from simple to master.

Heavy sacks could gradually get better and more contents.

For all we know, they do. Not seriously, but the point is that no node is going to hang around long enough in this game to find out.

...There are some pretty isolated nodes in rarely visited parts of rarely visited zones. I think there are definitely nodes that don't get hit more than once an hour.

Elsonso

t1cky wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

t1cky wrote: »

If crafting nodes gradually accumulated, it would reduce the effect of everyone farming the same routes. Additionally, it would create an incentive to farm obscure and not-oft-farmed areas. This would reduce player fatigue of constantly farming the same areas.

Blacksmithing, etc. nodes would simply gradually collect mats., possibly up to some limit. An easy balancing solution would be to keep the overall resource spawn rate the same.

Chests could gradually improve, from simple to master.

Heavy sacks could gradually get better and more contents.

For all we know, they do. Not seriously, but the point is that no node is going to hang around long enough in this game to find out.

...There are some pretty isolated nodes in rarely visited parts of rarely visited zones. I think there are definitely nodes that don't get hit more than once an hour.

Maybe. Probably not as many of them as you think. If the nodes increased their load over time, there wouldn't be any of them. At least, not in the overworld and accessible dungeons.

The thing about this game is that what is "isolated" to you might be on someone else's routine path. I honestly do not think that there is any freely accessible location in this game, no matter how obscure, that is not regularly visited by someone. The only place that is likely to happen is when the location is locked behind something like a quest, trial, or arena.

(Find one of those isolated spots in the rarely visited zones and try to set up for a screen capture with no other players in it. I guarantee you that there will be an endless stream of players wandering by! )

I'd love to see a heat map of the zones. I wonder if ZOS has that info.

Facefister

There is nothing to discuss. Bots would dominate even more. And don't get me started on randomizes alchemy nodes.

DaveMoeDee

t1cky wrote: »

If crafting nodes gradually accumulated, it would reduce the effect of everyone farming the same routes. Additionally, it would create an incentive to farm obscure and not-oft-farmed areas. This would reduce player fatigue of constantly farming the same areas.

Blacksmithing, etc. nodes would simply gradually collect mats., possibly up to some limit. An easy balancing solution would be to keep the overall resource spawn rate the same.

Chests could gradually improve, from simple to master.

Heavy sacks could gradually get better and more contents.

Discuss.

So replace that fatigue with camping nodes as you wait for them to grow? At least the current approach is active.

vometia

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be much better if nodes and chests were instanced per player or at least account as most other loot is? It's irritating having to compete with other players for scant resources and seems like pointless aggravation. I dare say there'd still be a market for people who can't be bothered to farm or who need lots of resources quickly, but the current system just seems designed to cause conflict. Well, conflict and bots.

JasonSilverSpring

vometia wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be much better if nodes and chests were instanced per player or at least account as most other loot is? It's irritating having to compete with other players for scant resources and seems like pointless aggravation. I dare say there'd still be a market for people who can't be bothered to farm or who need lots of resources quickly, but the current system just seems designed to cause conflict. Well, conflict and bots.

If resource nodes and chests were instanced per player there would have to be a lot less of them to counter the greater availability. I never really have to compete. If I run into another person farming, I just go in a different direction.

In my 3 or so years of playing I think I have twice had someone grab a chest while I am fighting a mob. Annoying, yes, but I moved on.

Also, if resource nodes were instanced that would actually benefit bots. They would have no competition for nodes from real players or other bots.

vometia

Why would there have to be a lot less of them? And surely it wouldn't benefit bots if people could get their own crafting materials; as I said, there'd still be a market for the "life's too short" types but otherwise I don't really see a downside. The current system just seems to be annoying and rather obtuse.

Elsonso

vometia wrote: »

Why would there have to be a lot less of them? And surely it wouldn't benefit bots if people could get their own crafting materials; as I said, there'd still be a market for the "life's too short" types but otherwise I don't really see a downside. The current system just seems to be annoying and rather obtuse.

The game is designed to that the resource nodes produce a certain amount of loot, and the competition between players to get that loot is taken into account in terms of number and placement of nodes, how often they respawn, and what they contain. If the nodes were instanced, the system would still have to stay within that certain amount of loot. (Why? Because that is the way the game is intended to work) The system would have to have fewer active nodes since every node in a zone would be for you, and only you. In turn, some players would get more loot, some less.

Anyway, that is my theory,

vometia

I can understand the theory and that it may need to be tweaked if they were instanced; I guess my question relates to the upsides of competing for nodes, if any, as I can't really think of them. I mean other than competing for its own sake, which I don't enjoy: perhaps I'm not the typical target audience for MMOs (I'm afraid I'm from the "I'm here for more TES, not an MMO" crowd!)

But it is a genuine quandary of mine, I can see advantages to instancing nodes and chests but none to competing for them. Which doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I've so far failed to think of what they may be.

Elsonso

vometia wrote: »

I can understand the theory and that it may need to be tweaked if they were instanced; I guess my question relates to the upsides of competing for nodes, if any, as I can't really think of them. I mean other than competing for its own sake, which I don't enjoy: perhaps I'm not the typical target audience for MMOs (I'm afraid I'm from the "I'm here for more TES, not an MMO" crowd!)

But it is a genuine quandary of mine, I can see advantages to instancing nodes and chests but none to competing for them. Which doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I've so far failed to think of what they may be.

I am a TES person, and the world of TES single player games is lonely and very self-centered. I am the only one there. I get all the loot. When the game starts, I already own all the loot. All of it. I just have to grind through the game to collect it all. It does not matter what order I wander the world, my loot is there waiting for me when I get there. No one else will ever take it.

I love that there are people in ESO that take some of MY stuff when I am not there to nab it. It makes the world more alive.

I basically can't play the TES single player games anymore. I tried to play Skyrim again, and I could not do it. The game is empty and lifeless. For a while, it worked to have some of the better companions in the game, but that only works for the first play through. In the end, I keep trying to compare them to ESO, and they are just empty in comparison.

Oddly enough, I can play Fallout 4. I think that this is because of the way the protagonist is positioned in the game, as a survivor from before the war. My character is alone in a surreal post-apocalyptic world. The loneliness of the game seems fitting.

P.S. - I expect that Fallout 76 will have that same effect on people, making the previous Fallout games empty and lifeless.

vometia

I agree with what you're saying from the emptiness viewpoint. Well, and the loot too, which I guess I'll start with: I mean I really loved Oblivion, but got to a serious "what's the point?" state when I was consistently picking up ebony armour from highwaymen apparently without two coins to rub together, selling it for half its value and finding I still had nothing to buy with my vast accumulated wealth. Enter FCOM (or really any of its constituent parts) which made the scaling way more interesting, changed the loot and entire economy, and introduced a whole bunch of more interesting stuff to find. That breathed a lot more life into the game and in terms of playing time it pretty much quadrupled something I'd just become fatigued with.

But they do feel empty. I think Skyrim suffers from this in particular for reasons I can't quite pin down: it shouldn't as it was the first TES game with full-time companions. I think it just came from this feeling that everybody hated me and resented my presence: even compared to Morrowind where I would regularly be called "scum" as a tourist in Vivec, overall it still felt way more welcoming.

I think what really brought that into focus for me was the Bioware games, where you play as part of a team; or the more recent Divinities, or Bioshock Infinite, or Dragon's Dogma, or... etc. Going back to a game where it's just you does feel a bit isolating.

Oddly enough, for me, ESO feels like that to me: I am a bit of a solo artist when it comes to teaming up with other players so suddenly there I am by myself. Okay, I have Deirdre the beetle or Mr Flibble the vvardvark but they don't generally have a lot to say nor contribute, and I guess it could be seen as entirely missing the point where I'd like to nab an NPC or two to take on my jolly japes and wild adventures.

ArthurMatheson

I think the system the OP was thinking about was more so you're rewarded for finding an obscure spawn location nobody has visited in a while, personally I'd fix the resource accumulation timer a little so it actually takes twice the spawn timer for a resource to accumulate so you're still discouraged to let the spot "cook", but at the same time get that nice little feeling of accomplishment when you find a big ore vein out in the wild that few visit.
For treasure chests I actually believe the timer for the chest to become of higher quality should be much greater since the chest's quality is already randomised and you can get a master chest just for waiting a normal respawn timer, but if nobody touches it in a very long time I still believe the treasure should increase in quality as a nice little thing, not a strategy.

Elsonso

ArthurMatheson wrote: »

I think the system the OP was thinking about was more so you're rewarded for finding an obscure spawn location nobody has visited in a while, personally I'd fix the resource accumulation timer a little so it actually takes twice the spawn timer for a resource to accumulate so you're still discouraged to let the spot "cook", but at the same time get that nice little feeling of accomplishment when you find a big ore vein out in the wild that few visit.

The thing is this... I don't think there would be such a location in this game. People routinely underestimate the size of the game and how many people play it. If there was such a thing as an "obscure spawn location", and people could tell it was obscure, it would no longer be an obscure location. It would become a regular stop on someone's route. (Edit: and by "someone", I mean probably a few dozen people)

Personally, were it my decision, such a system would be cool, but probably more work than the benefit that I would get from it. I would have to ask myself if the additional complexity was going to make maintaining it a problem. KISS suggests that, all things considered, the current system is better.

MISTRESS_DARKNESb14a_ESO

No it is hard enough to harvest supplies now your talking impossible to get enough resources.
I harvest to get the almost impossible to get crom to make furniture for the house... Run for hours to get 1k in stone and might if lucky get 3 grains..
IF anything up the nodes across all maps, resources would be easy to get, we can craft and the prices will drop causing the farmers to leave.