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MagSorc - Anyone NOT running triple shields?

MalagenR
MalagenR
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I've tried running double shields but it's really not enough to survive an ultimate combo by any competent player. Why are all of these people crying about magSorc on forums when we are pigeon holed into running triple shield to survive long enough to kill anyone competent in a 1vx or 1v1 fight?

Anyone have a double shield build they rock and have success with?
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    I run Empowered Ward front bar with curse, rune cage, force pulse, mages wrath and meteor. And on my back bar I run Harness Magicka, mutagen, boundless storm, streak, dark exchange, and negate.

    I find having a shield on both bars is far more beneficial that having 3 shields on the back bar.
  • Sparr0w
    Sparr0w
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    I run 2 shields, empowered ward on front bar, healing ward on back bar.
    @Sparr0w so I get the notification
    Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+
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  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I run Hardened Ward and Healing Ward, no Harness, in noCP. It’s tougher. But also more fun.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • SilverWF
    SilverWF
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    Why do you need 3 shields? when you would cast 3rd, the 1st one would be nearly disappeared

    It's really enough only 1 (class shield) but shield from Resto provides healing, so this one too
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  • ZarkingFrued
    ZarkingFrued
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    I run hardened ward front and healing ward back. Granted my sorc is new but I do well. I am planning to test adding Harness magicka on front bar as well but I'm not very keen to the ability changes I'll have to do. (namely adding lightning from or crit surge to my overload bar, this can complicate things as far as staying buffed and utilizing meteor), I think the reason people end up needing a triple shield stack on the back bar is entirely because they run all 3 shields on one bar which makes them lose pressure swapping back to shield stack up. Just a theory, but I think having one maybe even two on each bar is just as efficient, because let's face it, bar swapping in pvp is glitchy often and leads to doom when not timed correctly. I could easily be wrong though and selling myself short not 3 stacking. Any ideas on my current conundrum are welcome by the way.
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    Never used 3 shields
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    I find having a shield on both bars is far more beneficial that having 3 shields on the back bar.

    ^^^^

    The reasoning behind what jaws said, least this is from my experience, sometimes as a Sorc you can get caught in execute pressure on one bar, having a shield on both helps with that. Also helps to proc EG.
  • Biro123
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    Only used hardened/harness for years.. imho, healing ward is overrated.
    Like some others, I have one on each bar (in the same slot) - so even if bar-swapping screws up, hitting 3 always gives me a shield. Also hardened on the front benefits from a bigger mag pool and procs frags..
    Edited by Biro123 on July 19, 2018 2:49PM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
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    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
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    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • ZarkingFrued
    ZarkingFrued
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    I've wondered if healing ward is even worth it on mag sorc, the heal is nice but the ward only helps if you're near death really.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    I've wondered if healing ward is even worth it on mag sorc, the heal is nice but the ward only helps if you're near death really.

    Honestly, in these days of sload, you're much better off with rapid-regen instead.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • smacx250
    smacx250
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    I use hardened front bar, and healing back. Healing is usually more for the heal than the shield - though there are times I use it for the shield as well. Unless the other player(s) really blow it, or help arrives for you, endlessly spamming multiple shields does nothing but prolong your death, as you have no offense, and soon, no resources.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I've wondered if healing ward is even worth it on mag sorc, the heal is nice but the ward only helps if you're near death really.

    You don’t want to use Healing Ward for the shield at all. In the best case scenario Healing Ward takes no damage at all because the size of the heal is tied to the health that’s left and the strength of the shield.
    The shield's strength is increased by up to 300%, depending on the severity of the target's wounds. When the shield expires, the target is healed for 100% of the shield's remaining strength.

    That’s why you have to make sure healing Ward is cast in the correct order so it doesn’t take damage at all.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.



  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Feanor wrote: »
    I've wondered if healing ward is even worth it on mag sorc, the heal is nice but the ward only helps if you're near death really.

    You don’t want to use Healing Ward for the shield at all. In the best case scenario Healing Ward takes no damage at all because the size of the heal is tied to the health that’s left and the strength of the shield.
    The shield's strength is increased by up to 300%, depending on the severity of the target's wounds. When the shield expires, the target is healed for 100% of the shield's remaining strength.

    That’s why you have to make sure healing Ward is cast in the correct order so it doesn’t take damage at all.

    I was going to say, that's how triple shield works - you throw healing ward once you survive a burst combo, then stack hardened on top of it, followed by Harness. This way any magic attacks hit Harness and give you magicka regen, and they ned to burn through Hardened & Harness to penetrate the Ward shield.
  • WaltherCarraway
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    I run Harness and Hardened.
    Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.
  • Biro123
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.

    3 shields doesn't help vs high sustained damage - its a hinderance.

    Honestly, if you're taking 12k damage per cooldown, casting a 13k shield, then a 10k shield, then a 3k shield is worse than casting a 13k shield 3 times.
    The format being 36k dmg vs 26k shields, the latter being 36k dmg vs 39k shields..
    Of course, that's a simplification, as the overlap of a shield (ie stacking the remaining 1k) can benefit).. and healing wards size is variable..


    The ONLY way sorcs survive vs 15 scrubs is by making it so that their combined dps is low. Done in a number of ways..:
    1. Keeping most of them out of range - so lots of kiting..
    2. keeping many of them out of sight (los-ing)
    3. Making many of their attacks miss - ie, plenty of stam recov and dodge-cost reduction.

    The reality is probably that half of those 15 are out of range and effectively just 'chasing' - half or more of the remaining 7 are not in line of sight as you keep manoevering around rocks/trees etc.

    The remaining 3-4 get a full cooldown of attacks dodged every few seconds - the remainder is all your shields need to handle.

    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.

    3 shields doesn't help vs high sustained damage - its a hinderance.

    Honestly, if you're taking 12k damage per cooldown, casting a 13k shield, then a 10k shield, then a 3k shield is worse than casting a 13k shield 3 times.
    The format being 36k dmg vs 26k shields, the latter being 36k dmg vs 39k shields..
    Of course, that's a simplification, as the overlap of a shield (ie stacking the remaining 1k) can benefit).. and healing wards size is variable..


    The ONLY way sorcs survive vs 15 scrubs is by making it so that their combined dps is low. Done in a number of ways..:
    1. Keeping most of them out of range - so lots of kiting..
    2. keeping many of them out of sight (los-ing)
    3. Making many of their attacks miss - ie, plenty of stam recov and dodge-cost reduction.

    The reality is probably that half of those 15 are out of range and effectively just 'chasing' - half or more of the remaining 7 are not in line of sight as you keep manoevering around rocks/trees etc.

    The remaining 3-4 get a full cooldown of attacks dodged every few seconds - the remainder is all your shields need to handle.

    Makes sense, so you're telling me those guys who are kiting around Sej Bridge underground and around the rock formations / trees are surviving with just 2 shields?
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.

    3 shields doesn't help vs high sustained damage - its a hinderance.

    Honestly, if you're taking 12k damage per cooldown, casting a 13k shield, then a 10k shield, then a 3k shield is worse than casting a 13k shield 3 times.
    The format being 36k dmg vs 26k shields, the latter being 36k dmg vs 39k shields..
    Of course, that's a simplification, as the overlap of a shield (ie stacking the remaining 1k) can benefit).. and healing wards size is variable..


    The ONLY way sorcs survive vs 15 scrubs is by making it so that their combined dps is low. Done in a number of ways..:
    1. Keeping most of them out of range - so lots of kiting..
    2. keeping many of them out of sight (los-ing)
    3. Making many of their attacks miss - ie, plenty of stam recov and dodge-cost reduction.

    The reality is probably that half of those 15 are out of range and effectively just 'chasing' - half or more of the remaining 7 are not in line of sight as you keep manoevering around rocks/trees etc.

    The remaining 3-4 get a full cooldown of attacks dodged every few seconds - the remainder is all your shields need to handle.

    Makes sense, so you're telling me those guys who are kiting around Sej Bridge underground and around the rock formations / trees are surviving with just 2 shields?

    I'm not telling you what anybody's build is. There are certainly very good sorcs using 3 shields, but I'm pretty sure they're only ever using that third once wounded and in need of a heal.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.

    3 shields doesn't help vs high sustained damage - its a hinderance.

    Honestly, if you're taking 12k damage per cooldown, casting a 13k shield, then a 10k shield, then a 3k shield is worse than casting a 13k shield 3 times.
    The format being 36k dmg vs 26k shields, the latter being 36k dmg vs 39k shields..
    Of course, that's a simplification, as the overlap of a shield (ie stacking the remaining 1k) can benefit).. and healing wards size is variable..


    The ONLY way sorcs survive vs 15 scrubs is by making it so that their combined dps is low. Done in a number of ways..:
    1. Keeping most of them out of range - so lots of kiting..
    2. keeping many of them out of sight (los-ing)
    3. Making many of their attacks miss - ie, plenty of stam recov and dodge-cost reduction.

    The reality is probably that half of those 15 are out of range and effectively just 'chasing' - half or more of the remaining 7 are not in line of sight as you keep manoevering around rocks/trees etc.

    The remaining 3-4 get a full cooldown of attacks dodged every few seconds - the remainder is all your shields need to handle.

    Makes sense, so you're telling me those guys who are kiting around Sej Bridge underground and around the rock formations / trees are surviving with just 2 shields?

    I'm not telling you what anybody's build is. There are certainly very good sorcs using 3 shields, but I'm pretty sure they're only ever using that third once wounded and in need of a heal.

    Right, which means their build runs three shields, which is what I'm trying to get at here. How many of them are doing that with only 2 shields? I doubt very many.
  • usmguy1234
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    I don't think there's a point in running healing ward... either that or I'm using it wrong. I've never been able to get the heal from it when someone is attacking me.

    Is it first on last of

    Or last on first off

    I thought it was last on first off.
    Edited by usmguy1234 on July 19, 2018 4:22PM
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    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • Bergzorn
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    I use a 7k hardened ward in no CP and have harness slotted back bar mainly because of
    Biro123 wrote: »
    so even if bar-swapping screws up, hitting 3 always gives me a shield
    .




    no CP PvP PC/EU

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    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Non-CP PVP is like twinking. I'm not talking about twink gameplay. I'm talking about real builds that will work on Vivec. Is there a Sorc out there that does well that isn't running Hardened - Harness - Healing Ward?

  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    I actually just built a VMA Elegance Build that used Hardened, Harness, Mutagen

    Elegance + Transmutation + Skoria, but in learning that Critical Leech procs Transmutation I'm wondering if scrapping Mutagen for Healing Ward would be better now. Anyways that's off topic.

    Are any of you the MagSorc's I see kiting 15 scrub players I have to come in and help get the kill? Cause those folks seem to abuse the ever living *** out of triple shields and mist form. Or am I going crazy?

    How are these Mag Sorc's living through all of that ***, the only time I've ever been able to replicate that survivability is with 3 shields.

    3 shields doesn't help vs high sustained damage - its a hinderance.

    Honestly, if you're taking 12k damage per cooldown, casting a 13k shield, then a 10k shield, then a 3k shield is worse than casting a 13k shield 3 times.
    The format being 36k dmg vs 26k shields, the latter being 36k dmg vs 39k shields..
    Of course, that's a simplification, as the overlap of a shield (ie stacking the remaining 1k) can benefit).. and healing wards size is variable..


    The ONLY way sorcs survive vs 15 scrubs is by making it so that their combined dps is low. Done in a number of ways..:
    1. Keeping most of them out of range - so lots of kiting..
    2. keeping many of them out of sight (los-ing)
    3. Making many of their attacks miss - ie, plenty of stam recov and dodge-cost reduction.

    The reality is probably that half of those 15 are out of range and effectively just 'chasing' - half or more of the remaining 7 are not in line of sight as you keep manoevering around rocks/trees etc.

    The remaining 3-4 get a full cooldown of attacks dodged every few seconds - the remainder is all your shields need to handle.

    Makes sense, so you're telling me those guys who are kiting around Sej Bridge underground and around the rock formations / trees are surviving with just 2 shields?

    I'm not telling you what anybody's build is. There are certainly very good sorcs using 3 shields, but I'm pretty sure they're only ever using that third once wounded and in need of a heal.

    Right, which means their build runs three shields, which is what I'm trying to get at here. How many of them are doing that with only 2 shields? I doubt very many.

    Why not? I already explained how shielding vs pressure is better with fewer, stronger shields. If you also have a hot ticking away for 1.4k crits under that shield(6-7k healing in the 6 seconds it takes for healing ward to take), you rarely get to a point where you need to use healing ward.

    The point is, that it isn't the shields that make 1vXing possible - its dodging/Los/kiting and less-skilled opponents. These have a much, much bigger impact than the number of shields.
    Edited by Biro123 on July 19, 2018 3:59PM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
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    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    Non-CP PVP is like twinking. I'm not talking about twink gameplay. I'm talking about real builds that will work on Vivec. Is there a Sorc out there that does well that isn't running Hardened - Harness - Healing Ward?

    I run hardened and harness with mutagen for my heal but I also am running Shackle and Alteration Mastery with 1 domihaus and 1 max magic monster set. With tristat food, I sit at around 18K stamina in CP and 15K in no-CP. With the alteration cost reduction, I can dodge roll a ton of incoming damage regularly.

    So yeah, with a decent stam pool and proper stamina management, you can survive multiple players with just two shields.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    Non-CP PVP is like twinking. I'm not talking about twink gameplay. I'm talking about real builds that will work on Vivec. Is there a Sorc out there that does well that isn't running Hardened - Harness - Healing Ward?

    I run hardened and harness with mutagen for my heal but I also am running Shackle and Alteration Mastery with 1 domihaus and 1 max magic monster set. With tristat food, I sit at around 18K stamina in CP and 15K in no-CP. With the alteration cost reduction, I can dodge roll a ton of incoming damage regularly.

    So yeah, with a decent stam pool and proper stamina management, you can survive multiple players with just two shields.

    Seems like stamina management is an absolute necessity. Do you run Impen or Well Fitted?
  • Biro123
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    Just watch Malcolm's vids.. He uses 3 shields - but goes into a lot of detail about the stam side, traits and approaches to defence.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    MalagenR wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    MalagenR wrote: »
    Non-CP PVP is like twinking. I'm not talking about twink gameplay. I'm talking about real builds that will work on Vivec. Is there a Sorc out there that does well that isn't running Hardened - Harness - Healing Ward?

    I run hardened and harness with mutagen for my heal but I also am running Shackle and Alteration Mastery with 1 domihaus and 1 max magic monster set. With tristat food, I sit at around 18K stamina in CP and 15K in no-CP. With the alteration cost reduction, I can dodge roll a ton of incoming damage regularly.

    So yeah, with a decent stam pool and proper stamina management, you can survive multiple players with just two shields.

    Seems like stamina management is an absolute necessity. Do you run Impen or Well Fitted?

    I run a mix of impen and infused. Impen on the small pieces, infused on the large. And a I think I run around 72 or so CP into tumbling. Whatever that rounded % is in the 70 point range.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    The point is, that it isn't the shields that make 1vXing possible - its dodging/Los/kiting and less-skilled opponents. These have a much, much bigger impact than the number of shields.

    Yup

    This is why half of the time, when I see nerf this/that thread, based on how the OP types they either A.) The less-skilled opponent fighting a more intelligent one or B.) Someone who actually knows what they're talking about and provides good talking points.
  • oxygen_thief
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    shields are not reliable in that situation. you need to roll dodge and block a lot if you want to survive.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I rarely run three shields. Most of the time I run hardened and harness. I get heals from surge and in oh crap moments, a resto ult. If I have a healer in group I don’t bother with the resto ult.

    I am starting to think that if you have the bar space, mutagen is actually better than healing ward. It’s much easier to keep mutagen on yourself. Ward goes to another player about 75% of the time. It’s just not that reliable for personal heals in my experience.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on July 19, 2018 9:51PM
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