Where is the meta needed to succeed?

Guppet

Just curious to see where people think the meta is needed.

Olen_Mikko

Vet Trials only

Leaderboards.
Most veteran pledges can be done with pretty much any decent builds

VaranisArano

Any content where people are striving to complete or compete with maximum efficiency.

So basically runs done for the scoreboard in trials and arenas. For some roles in PVP, like bombers or 1vXers.

And for any group of players that insists on maximum efficiency, and thus the meta, whether or not the content they are running actually requires it.

DocFrost72

Other: "Scoreboard runs".

You can get away with a lot even as far as vet trials once you have the mechanics down.

Nestor

No where

Only in players minds

essi2

No where

Nestor wrote: »

Only in players minds

And that is the last place you want to go.

Sergykid

where is PVP option? you can succeed in pvp only if you go tryhard meta, because only tryhard metas win there

Anotherone773

No where

"What is normal Fungal Grotto I ? Alex."

meta builds, perfect rotations, BiS gear....none of that is vital to doing all content in this game. All that is only vital if you are trying to top the leaderboards. You can complete all content in this game with a competent group doing around half of the current max dps.

Asardes

No where

There's is not one "META". All you need is gear that gives you the proper stats for that build, and group buffs if it's a support build. Other than that you need a good understanding of mechanics and a decent skill rotation to complete content or win against other players. The difference between similar sets when it comes to damage done is 5% or less so if you fail at it it's not the gear.

jlmurra2

The results of this poll so far is both enlightening, and encouraging.

Cously

Vet dlc and vet trials

If you are a completionist and want all the achievements then you must follow the meta and make sure everyone follows the meta. It's not just about leaderboards. Good luck doing a no death, speed, hard mode run of the last two trials with a "play as you want" build. Normal content can be done naked and it often is.

Sparr0w

No where

Not even leaderboard runs tbh, meta setup won't prevent your team from wiping.

Edit: Sure the guy above makes a semi valid point, obviously a 30k hp stam DPS with an ice staff wouldn't be taken into vet trials but you don't ask what gear or skills everyone is running, where their attribute points are set & what their rotation is. You just see if the GROUP dps will be high enough to complete, if the healers can heal through the damage and if the tank can take the hardest hits. As long as that is hit there's no need for meta.

I'd rather take the better player than the better build any day.

Chrysa1is

No where

dont conform to meta. be unique and play how you wanna play

idk

Nestor wrote: »

Only in players minds

This is the correct answer. Meta is essentially a concept and nothing more. That is why we see top theorycrafters that actually prove out their builds have some slight differences, for starters.

Even for the very top players do not actually need a meta build. They are top players due to constant practice to refine what they do beyond what most players even consider. They actually do more to define what meta builds are since they are constantly testing and tweaking their builds so they do have that great DPS.

DocFrost72

Cously wrote: »

If you are a completionist and want all the achievements then you must follow the meta and make sure everyone follows the meta. It's not just about leaderboards. Good luck doing a no death, speed, hard mode run of the last two trials with a "play as you want" build. Normal content can be done naked and it often is.

Funny, I have the no death and hard mode achieves for VRoM on my 70k health tank. Was the standard for my trial guild at the time too.

Guppet

Vet Trials only

jlmurra2 wrote: »

The results of this poll so far is both enlightening, and encouraging.

It is indeed. To read most posts on any dungeon topic you’d think it’s needed everywhere. It’s clearly not.

VaranisArano

Sergykid wrote: »

where is PVP option? you can succeed in pvp only if you go tryhard meta, because only tryhard metas win there

I'm guessing this is somewhat of a joke, so bear with me clarifying here, but that's not really true.

Player skill can make a non-meta build play like top tier, and lack of player skill can make a top-performing meta build look lackluster.

I know, as I tried to make a Blazeplar prior to the Morrowind nerfs when those builds were at their height. I had the build and all the pieces I needed to succeed, but I sucked at running it, so my results were terrible. Practice and player skill is what separates the people who make certain builds the meta and the people who use certain builds because they are the current meta.

That being said, there are some roles in PVP where there are limited build choices. There's a meta for people like 1vXers and Bombers, because those are very specialized roles that rely on maximizing efficiency - and that's really what the meta is designed to do. If you want to Bomb large groups, for example, there are certain gear and skills that let you do that more effectively than anything else.

Most PVP builds benefit from being generalists because PVP often requires offense, defense, self-healing, running, hiding, and a lot more flexibility than just performing one role and performing it spectacularly.. A good PVP build is a Jack of All Trades and a Master of most of those.

Yo_Donno

Vet dlc and vet trials

Depends what you want to do.
vHRC and vSO can legit be completed with like 100k group dps (All 8 DDs combined) and no group buffs with heals or tank.
All DLC dungeons can be completed with a total of about 30k group dps (Both DDs combined) and no group buffs from heals or tank.

If you're trying to put up a 100k+ Hel Ra score, or trying to get the skin in any of the DLC dungeons, you're gonna need a bit more.

So no, meta is not REQUIRED in any content (save for DLC trials) for a complete. However you're going to do a lot better with it. And I frankly have no sympathy for people who don't run meta just because they don't like being a "cookie cutter build" or "going with the flow". In a choice between someone who puts out 30k DPS with a non-meta build, and 40k with a meta build, I'm picking the latter.

starkerealm

No where

Anotherone773 wrote: »

"What is normal Fungal Grotto I ? Alex."

meta builds, perfect rotations, BiS gear....none of that is vital to doing all content in this game. All that is only vital if you are trying to top the leaderboards. You can complete all content in this game with a competent group doing around half of the current max dps.

I'll do you one better. A lot of the, "BiS," arguments you'll see are just garbage. I mean, the gear works, the build may work, but there's no real, "best in slot," situations in ESO. The game's too diverse for that. There are some very good options, but there's no clear, "one true path," to mastery with a given class.

ResTandRespeC

Leaderboard runs (pushing scores), and if your trying to be the most helpful you can be in progression of tougher content. That being said "meta" is pretty varied right now. There's 3+ setups you can use for just about every class that could be considered "meta" or BiS or whatever.

ResTandRespeC

Sparr0w wrote: »

Not even leaderboard runs tbh, meta setup won't prevent your team from wiping.

Edit: Sure the guy above makes a semi valid point, obviously a 30k hp stam DPS with an ice staff wouldn't be taken into vet trials but you don't ask what gear or skills everyone is running, where their attribute points are set & what their rotation is. You just see if the GROUP dps will be high enough to complete, if the healers can heal through the damage and if the tank can take the hardest hits. As long as that is hit there's no need for meta.

I'd rather take the better player than the better build any day.

I mean i guess there is a difference between top leaderboard spots and like weekly trial score runs. The nature of going for the number 1 spot is that the more dps you have, a long with other factors like deaths and strategy, leads to higher scores. The difference between 30 and 40k a person can equal upward of 10 minutes added on to a Hard mode vhrc run.

idk

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Not even leaderboard runs tbh, meta setup won't prevent your team from wiping.

Edit: Sure the guy above makes a semi valid point, obviously a 30k hp stam DPS with an ice staff wouldn't be taken into vet trials but you don't ask what gear or skills everyone is running, where their attribute points are set & what their rotation is. You just see if the GROUP dps will be high enough to complete, if the healers can heal through the damage and if the tank can take the hardest hits. As long as that is hit there's no need for meta.

I'd rather take the better player than the better build any day.

I mean i guess there is a difference between top leaderboard spots and like weekly trial score runs. The nature of going for the number 1 spot is that the more dps you have, a long with other factors like deaths and strategy, leads to higher scores. The difference between 30 and 40k a person can equal upward of 10 minutes added on to a Hard mode vhrc run.

There is a lot of difference in between. A big difference is many of those raid groups in the middle of the leaderboards have requirements that in the end make it easier for the group to clear it with a decent score, and fewer repairs, better support, etc.

Cously

Vet dlc and vet trials

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

where is PVP option? you can succeed in pvp only if you go tryhard meta, because only tryhard metas win there

I'm guessing this is somewhat of a joke, so bear with me clarifying here, but that's not really true.

Player skill can make a non-meta build play like top tier, and lack of player skill can make a top-performing meta build look lackluster.

I know, as I tried to make a Blazeplar prior to the Morrowind nerfs when those builds were at their height. I had the build and all the pieces I needed to succeed, but I sucked at running it, so my results were terrible. Practice and player skill is what separates the people who make certain builds the meta and the people who use certain builds because they are the current meta.

That being said, there are some roles in PVP where there are limited build choices. There's a meta for people like 1vXers and Bombers, because those are very specialized roles that rely on maximizing efficiency - and that's really what the meta is designed to do. If you want to Bomb large groups, for example, there are certain gear and skills that let you do that more effectively than anything else.

Most PVP builds benefit from being generalists because PVP often requires offense, defense, self-healing, running, hiding, and a lot more flexibility than just performing one role and performing it spectacularly.. A good PVP build is a Jack of All Trades and a Master of most of those.

Depends on what kind of pvp you talking about. If you mean things like Cyrodiil where its a cluster *** is doesn't matter the meta but on premade battlegrounds its the made or get facerolled. You and your mates have to run cancer builds to win.