Relequen Direct Melee Damage Intended?

WrathOfInnos

I’ve seen this question mentioned in multiple threads, with the general consensus being that Relequen will probably be changed to not proc things like Ravager and Selene’s (both which require direct melee damage).

While it is certainly a powerful combination, I’m not convinced that the current behavior is a bug. I’ll give a few examples as to why it may be working as intended.

First, as I posted in another thread earlier today, Relequen seems very similar in effect to another damage proc set: Morkuldin. Both are activated by light and heavy attacks (from melee or bow), and the entity summoned by them then proceeds to inflict direct melee damage on the target. The main difference between these two sets is the name of the entity that is dealing damage for you: “Harmful Winds” vs “Animated Weapon”.

Second, if we are talking about “Harmful Winds”, the closest example I can think of that was previously in game would be the whirlwinds present during the last boss fight in Tempest Island. Now I haven’t tested this, but it seems to me that the damage from these would be considered both melee and direct, despite the fact that the boss that summons them may be out of melee range. Now the opposite example would be the whirlwinds present during Ra Kotu in HRC, which I believe are considered damage over time, but still most likely melee (not 100% sure about this).

Third, while tooltip are not always the most clear, this one does seem to indicate that the damage is intended to be direct, and not a DoT. Typically the wording “deals x damage every y seconds” means that it is direct. If it instead stated “x damage over y seconds” then I would believe that it was intended to be a DoT.

Overall I’ll admit that I have little personal investment in this issue, as I primarily play Magicka builds. However, I do like to see build diversity in PVE, and am concerned that any “fix” to Relequen would result in fewer stamina builds being welcome in trials. Sure the set is over performing and a crutch used to hold up stamina DPS after the effective removal of Sunderflame and Night Mother’s sets from the meta, but without Relequen what would they have left?

Anyone have any thoughts or additional data on this topic?

Edit: I also want to mention that this set has little effect on balance in PVP, since hitting the same player with 20 light or heavy attacks in a row without a 5s gap is nearly impossible. And the Minor Slayer 3pc bonus is useless outside of dungeons and trials.

WrathOfInnos

Nobody has anything to add to this discussion?

Sarjako

No I have nothing to contribute however I'm watching with interest.

Sky_WK

I don't think its intended, but since they haven't fixed it yet, they'll probably just leave it, rather then risk the wrath of the forumblades who can't cheese with Selene's anymore.

MashmalloMan

How about we balance stam dps as a whole instead of using sets as crutches. The fact that we need to use a VMA bow to double the dps of endless from 3k-6k and a single target set to proc 5.5-8k to remain competitive is atrocious. We also have to slot some type of physical penetration whether its through a set or through the lover mundus to reach the pen cap, while mag can slot damage/crit/max mag as a set option because they already meet the minimum with cp/passives. Then the skill diversity is garbage too, typical poison injection, endless hail, razor caltrops, rearming trap on every single back bar.

I do like this set and storm fist because it fits the theme of a stam sorc, but when you really analyze stam dps situation right now it's awful. I'd prefer maybe 4-5k dps on the set with a buff to normal skills. #rant... sorry.

If we are looking at tool tips, here are some examples and why it doesn't really work:

Direct DMG | Deal X DMG every Z second:
Relequen: Harmful winds deal 378 Physical Damage every 1 second.

DoT's | Deal X DMG every Z second for Y seconds:
Endless Hail: Dealing 126 Physical Damage to enemies in the target area every 0.5 seconds for 10 seconds.
Deadly Cloak: Dealing 206 Physical Damage to all nearby enemies every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.
Hurricane: Dealing 85 Physical Damage every 1 second for 15 seconds.

DoT's | Deal X DMG over Y seconds :
Poison Injection: Additional 920 Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
Rending Slashes: Bleed for an additional 990 Physical Damage over 9 seconds.
Rearming Trap: Additional 723 Physical Damage over 6 seconds.
Rapid Fire: Dealing 5540 Physical Damage over 4.1 seconds.

Caltrops: 171 Physical Damage every 1 second. -- Actually has the exact same naming as Relequen by not stating over 12 seconds, but is affected by Thaum not Master at Arms.

Don't trust tool tips :P It seems up in the air if Relequen's type of DMG is bugged or intended, logically speaking it seems like it shouldn't be Direct DMG, on top of it Direct MELEE DMG, but I guess it isn't exactly ranged either because it's constantly procing on the target as a debuff. I like that it's Direct because we have enough DoT's as is, especially if it's focussed on PVE where DoT is King.

MashmalloMan

With this set a BOW/BOW build can reliably play redguard and get optimal use out of the passive making Woodelf and Khajiit even worse choices for BOW/BOW builds in pve. Adrenaline rush is also proc'ed from the poison enchant but has a 2-4sec cd.

WrathOfInnos

@Marshall1289 Interesting points, especially the one about Relequen working for adrenaline rush. Any set that helps bow-bow builds compete is a good thing IMO, even if it does favor one race in particular. I suspect pure ranged stam builds will someday see some use in content like vAS and vCR where melee underperforms.

MashmalloMan

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Marshall1289 Interesting points, especially the one about Relequen working for adrenaline rush. Any set that helps bow-bow builds compete is a good thing IMO, even if it does favor one race in particular. I suspect pure ranged stam builds will someday see some use in content like vAS and vCR where melee underperforms.

Agreed. It's pretty funny to think that Wood Elf's literally have no place in this game when Redguard provides good DMG/SUSTAIN and Khajiit provides good DMG/STEALTH DMG. I guess it might be in between the two, but I feel bad for people that chose it thinking it was the best for BOW/BOW build when it really isn't, they need a major buff.