What Relequen Was Really Designed For.

kylewwefan

Light Attack Spammers.

You can do nothing but light attacks and relentless proc and hit 25k with this set. That says a lot to me if my simple self can get that kind of damage from basically, no rotation, just light attack spam, throw in a fancy skill every here n there.

Thjs one set can raise the floor 5 to 10k, and at the same time raise the ceiling 20k+ in good hands.

Ok, I’m not complaining. It really does help the super casual gamer playing through like Skyrim.

Sure, it’s a dummy killer for sure and in a fight where you can keep your stacks on it’s quite powerful.

I have to admit, Relequen and AY has probably given me my best dummy nuke ever on StamBlade. In action though, something else feels better.

Skullstachio

Yeah just wait until wolf hunter gets released, combine relequen with Bloodmoon. (Bloodmoon gives you a stack of blood scent when dealing critical damage with a light attack, reaching 5 stacks puts the wearer into a frenzy, increasing light attack damage by 50% and light attack speed by 50% for 5 seconds, occurring once every few seconds.) and stamina DPS’s may have an ace up their sleeve for sure.

Be mindful the Bloodmoon set is subject to change at anytime during the PTS phase.

Mr_Wolfe

Honestly, I hope they don't change it. Giving less skilled (or less abled) players the opportunity to do decent dps and not be locked out of content is a good thing.

I personally know someone with limited mobility in their hands, who physically cannot weave. (They're still a better player than me, lol.) Being able to hit at least 20k means he'll have an easier time doing dungeons and trials without feeling like a drag on the group.

I know some people get up in arms about anything they percieve as making the game 'easier,' but if you pay for a game, you shouldn't have so much of the endgame content locked behind a difficulty wall that a lot of players struggle to get over.

LeHarrt91

Or was it designed for Bow Builds (that use light attacks to build more damage) as Cloudrest is basically a ranged trial?
But i do agree lol.

paulychan

I wonder if anyone has tried to mix this set with queens elegance.

John_Falstaff

By the way, do I understand it right that the upcoming Bloodmoon is so far the only set that increases attack -speed-, e.g. messes with timings related to global cooldown? Not that it's a bad thing per se, but feels a bit inconsistent; and if I'm not mistaken, early on, there was an experiment with weapon trait increasing attack speed ('balanced', was it?) and it was quickly dropped, no?

As for Relequen, I don't think it's capable of changing the bigger problem of ranged stamina viability all by itself, though it definitely will help some. Though with the latest trends (ahem, JC), it's hard not to be pushed towards the thought that Arms of Relequen is designed to help Summerset sell better.

Runefang

paulychan wrote: »

I wonder if anyone has tried to mix this set with queens elegance.

Honestly it's a bad set, 20% sounds like a lot but having a 5-set piece bonus buff just one part of your overall DPS won't have great results.

UNLESS you play like its skyrim in which case definitely wear it because its a flat 20% dps increase because all you do is light attack...

ecru

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Or was it designed for Bow Builds (that use light attacks to build more damage) as Cloudrest is basically a ranged trial?
But i do agree lol.

there's too much target switching in cloudrest for relequen to perform very well

TheDarkShadow

paulychan wrote: »

I wonder if anyone has tried to mix this set with queens elegance.

Elegeance is a mag set, bloodmoon/relequen are stam sets, and hybrid builds cant compete with pure builds on dps. I did try elegance on mag sorc, a class that have a skill to buff LA their own, right after light attack and max magika scale to light/heavy attack change, and it worse than Mother Sorrow.

Raraaku

I wish the developers created some variability in combat and create avenues in which a HA rotation/weaving build could at least be within the same realm as LA weaving... Summerset really dampened build variety with all the changes to force builds into LA weave rotations thanks to the changes to Empower, LA buff, HA nerf, and sets like Relequen. Relequen is virtually purely for LA weaving since a HA weave rotation would not be able to stack nearly as well as LA rotations.

ZoS is forcing DPS builds into a box with the LA buffs and HA nerfs from Summerset.

Minyassa

Doesn't this drop from a trial? How are unskilled players completing trials to even get this set? I haven't done but two trials, or rather, bumbled through them but it took hours with a pug and I thought everyone had to be at least a certain CP level in the 200s to even do it. Are trials way easier than I was given to believe?

WrathOfInnos

Yes it drops from Cloudrest, but normal Cloudrest is very easy to complete. I see random groups forming in zone chat frequently, so it’s not like you need a trials guild to get Relequen. The armor and weapons drop from nCR+0, which is the easiest mode to complete. Only reason to do any of the hard modes would be to get jewelry. However, I generally wouldn’t bother with farming gear before CP160 or you will outlevel it quickly.

tunepunk

In one way i think it's good that the devs try to make some sets for light attack spammers.

Most my characters are single bar skill/light attack spammers, because rotations are clunky. I'm extremely lazy and I hate constant bar swapping because I always mess up and end up on the wrong bar using skills I didn't intend to in the heat of the moment..., so if I can do easy 25k dummy parses on a single bar. I'm very happy with that.

My play style for most of my characters is well balanced, "decent dps" 1 bar builds, with a good degree of survivability.

2nd bar I usually only keep skills I'm levelling up, or utility skills and buffs like rapid maneuver.

So this sounds like a set I would try for my bow/bow stamsorc.

Mr_Wolfe

Yeah, nCR+0 is pretty easy once you get the mechanics down. It's an example of good game design imo, because it's doable for most people but there are lots of ways to up the difficulty if you want more of a challenge.

I just wish the perfected relequen gear wasn't locked behind vet mode. Not a fan of untradeable, mechanically superior gear being a reward for completing higher difficulty content. It increases the gap between elite players and the rest of us, which makes it harder to design content that can challenge everyone without becoming inaccessible to a large chunk of the player base. At least with other gear you can farm it on normal and upgrade it via crafting.

idk

Considering Zos has double downed on pushing the weaving of light attacks by increasing their damage twice during the past year + this set makes complete sense.

Weaving LA is not spamming LA but merely weaving it into ones rotation.

John_Falstaff

Any LA weaving would do, but I think Arms of Relequen still encourages rotation with more light attacks (like using Crushing Weapons + LA as spammable), since twenty is a lot of stacks to build up. With normal rotations, it may take three or four of them (and that's ~40 seconds) for the set to ramp up to full damage.

AverageJo3Gam3r

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Any LA weaving would do, but I think Arms of Relequen still encourages rotation with more light attacks (like using Crushing Weapons + LA as spammable), since twenty is a lot of stacks to build up. With normal rotations, it may take three or four of them (and that's ~40 seconds) for the set to ramp up to full damage.

Why are you not LA weaving before every skill? 20 stacks should take exactly 20 seconds to build up, then should be maintained the entire fight. Relequen is only bad for vMA or vDSA where the downtime between rounds and bursty nature of damage makes it a bad choice.

John_Falstaff

I very much do. ^^ But I think that one LA per GCD is still an ideal case. I have two heavy attacks (I reckon it's a penance for my sin of not being a redguard, and stubbornly a stamina DK) in rotation; it has eight active skills, and though it was a while since I paid mind, I think it takes maybe around 12 seconds, maybe a bit less - with animation canceling as usual. It would place me at ~0.66 LAs per second, which would give ramp-up time of about 30 seconds for Arms of Relequen for me. A lot of targets don't live that long. ^^ And some trials (ahem, Cloudrest itself) has a lot of target switching too. So, I can't think of it as a set that "just works".

raj72616a

have you done a light attack only parse with it?

i did a parse with hunding rage and tfs and got abt 13k on a dummy parse.
i don't see how this set can push that to 25k

kylewwefan

No. That would be a little extreme. Even the most casual often use one or 2 skills, then carry on light attacking

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kylewwefan wrote: »

No. That would be a little extreme. Even the most casual often use one or 2 skills, then carry on light attacking

I think a lot of this has to do with the changes to light attack damage and scaling. On my mageblade using typical trial gear, I can break 30k on a dummy using elemental Blockade, a Light attack spam, and merciless resolve with bow procs. I wasnt even bother to keep up elemental drain. It looks impressive, but this type of build will have almost no cleave damage and wont perform as well as a more typical rotation doing less ST DPS.

I also dont believe for one second that this is what any of these new sets were "designed" for.

Faulgor

John_Falstaff wrote: »

By the way, do I understand it right that the upcoming Bloodmoon is so far the only set that increases attack -speed-, e.g. messes with timings related to global cooldown? Not that it's a bad thing per se, but feels a bit inconsistent; and if I'm not mistaken, early on, there was an experiment with weapon trait increasing attack speed ('balanced', was it?) and it was quickly dropped, no?)

Attackspeed modifiers (weighted weapon trait and Nightblade's Haste skill) had been in the game since beta. Haste was replaced by Grim Focus in Update 1.6.5 in March 2015, weighted was replaced by decisive in Update 2.4.5 in May 2016 (Dark Brotherhood). I still remember Wrobel on ESO live saying he'd like to see it make its way back into the game somehow at a later date.

In fact, I created my Orc nightblade specifically because of the Haste skill, and had a fantastic time with weighted weapons. Best berserker-like character you could make. I still hate Grim Focus because of this.

raj72616a

kylewwefan wrote: »

No. That would be a little extreme. Even the most casual often use one or 2 skills, then carry on light attacking

the most casual in pug can manage to do poorer than a literally light attack only parse.
their use of skills actually lower their dps (relative to light attack spam)

Strider__Roshin

It's like the Maelstrom bow, it does a ridiculous amount of damage in order to help stam keep up with magicka who doesn't need these crutches to be competitive.

Splattercat_83

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Honestly, I hope they don't change it. Giving less skilled (or less abled) players the opportunity to do decent dps and not be locked out of content is a good thing.

I personally know someone with limited mobility in their hands, who physically cannot weave. (They're still a better player than me, lol.) Being able to hit at least 20k means he'll have an easier time doing dungeons and trials without feeling like a drag on the group.

I know some people get up in arms about anything they percieve as making the game 'easier,' but if you pay for a game, you shouldn't have so much of the endgame content locked behind a difficulty wall that a lot of players struggle to get over.

Actually i

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Yeah, nCR+0 is pretty easy once you get the mechanics down. It's an example of good game design imo, because it's doable for most people but there are lots of ways to up the difficulty if you want more of a challenge.

I just wish the perfected relequen gear wasn't locked behind vet mode. Not a fan of untradeable, mechanically superior gear being a reward for completing higher difficulty content. It increases the gap between elite players and the rest of us, which makes it harder to design content that can challenge everyone without becoming inaccessible to a large chunk of the player base. At least with other gear you can farm it on normal and upgrade it via crafting.

If you have two good tanks, two descent healers, and 8 dps that can atleast hit 35k you can do vCR + 0 and get the perfected gear that way. Run it on normal to get your non perfected sets, and then start working on vet farming the mini bosses. I should be doable if you pay attention to mechanics.

Baz

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

If you have two good tanks, two descent healers, and 8 dps that can atleast hit 35k you can do vCR + 0 and get the perfected gear that way. Run it on normal to get your non perfected sets, and then start working on vet farming the mini bosses. I should be doable if you pay attention to mechanics.

Perfected gear start looting on +1. On Vet +0 you will only loot perfected weapons.

+0 : 1 weapon
+1 : 1 weapon + 1 gear
+2 : 1 weapon + 1 gear + 1 purple jewel
+3 : 1 weapon + 2 gear + 1 gold jewel

Mr_Wolfe

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Honestly, I hope they don't change it. Giving less skilled (or less abled) players the opportunity to do decent dps and not be locked out of content is a good thing.

I personally know someone with limited mobility in their hands, who physically cannot weave. (They're still a better player than me, lol.) Being able to hit at least 20k means he'll have an easier time doing dungeons and trials without feeling like a drag on the group.

I know some people get up in arms about anything they percieve as making the game 'easier,' but if you pay for a game, you shouldn't have so much of the endgame content locked behind a difficulty wall that a lot of players struggle to get over.

Actually i

Was there more to this? Seems to have gotten cut off.

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Yeah, nCR+0 is pretty easy once you get the mechanics down. It's an example of good game design imo, because it's doable for most people but there are lots of ways to up the difficulty if you want more of a challenge.

I just wish the perfected relequen gear wasn't locked behind vet mode. Not a fan of untradeable, mechanically superior gear being a reward for completing higher difficulty content. It increases the gap between elite players and the rest of us, which makes it harder to design content that can challenge everyone without becoming inaccessible to a large chunk of the player base. At least with other gear you can farm it on normal and upgrade it via crafting.

If you have two good tanks, two descent healers, and 8 dps that can atleast hit 35k you can do vCR + 0 and get the perfected gear that way. Run it on normal to get your non perfected sets, and then start working on vet farming the mini bosses. I should be doable if you pay attention to mechanics.

That's a lot of if's, and none of them are particularly reliable in my experience. Players of that caliber rarely want to drag a weak DPS through vet content, and like I said before the people who really need relequen are the ones who can't hit 20k DPS--let alone 35k.

It really sucks when the gear you need to get better is locked behind content you can't complete until you get better.

SilverWF

I think, in the few patches they would release a set, that would oneshot (literally) even trial-bosses

To compensate this, every encounter would be changed too: 5 sec window to kill a boss, after that he becomes immune to damage and kill whole group in the single strike.