There needs to be some Faction Stacking balance done

Xsorus

They need to go back to one faction per server. Once they allowed Cross Realming a whole lot of bads swapped to the winning side every time.

Wing

I would love to see it done for even just a month or two to see what kind of effect it really would have.

Slick_007

no, they really don't. and please learn how to use the word bad in a sentence.

VaranisArano

Out of curiosity, what happens to your idea if those "bad players" who are unbalancing the campaigns decide to faction lock themselves to the currently winning side instead of dividing themselves evenly?

Doesn't this have the potential to just enshrine the dominance of one faction even more?

WuffyCerulei

I thought u were talking about an actual faction stack, where the entire faction would show up to one place. Aka all of DC at Chalman.

Xsorus

VaranisArano wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what happens to your idea if those "bad players" who are unbalancing the campaigns decide to faction lock themselves to the currently winning side instead of dividing themselves evenly?

Doesn't this have the potential to just enshrine the dominance of one faction even more?

Ok, you seem to not grasp the idea of people hopping on the Winning Faction.

They don't switch to the losing Faction, in fact you force them to decide which characters they want to play as well.

Ever since they allowed cross faction play you've had nothing but people stacking the winning faction...

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I thought u were talking about an actual faction stack, where the entire faction would show up to one place. Aka all of DC at Chalman.

That would be kind of hard to do, since DC is consistently hit by AD down at Ash and must split to defend it.

You'd know this if you played a less zergy faction.

VaranisArano

Xsorus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what happens to your idea if those "bad players" who are unbalancing the campaigns decide to faction lock themselves to the currently winning side instead of dividing themselves evenly?

Doesn't this have the potential to just enshrine the dominance of one faction even more?

Ok, you seem to not grasp the idea of people hopping on the Winning Faction.

They don't switch to the losing Faction, in fact you force them to decide which characters they want to play as well.

Ever since they allowed cross faction play you've had nothing but people stacking the winning faction...

Oh I understand the concept. People swap from their regular faction to play for the winning faction for AP since there is no faction lock.

You want a faction lock. What if those faction swappers decide to lock themselves into the currently dominate faction?

For example, on PC/NA Vivec, EP is currently dominate since April. I'm a loyalist EP, so ignore me, Ive been EP and will stay EP. But we get bandwagon players, sure.

Introduce a faction lock and what if all of those bandwagon players faction lock themselves to EP (or the currently dominate faction)? EP now has a population boost locked in for however long that faction lock lasts, and DC/AD are losing even the part time efforts of those faction hoppers. Seems to me like there's potential for this to extend faction imbalance as much as players,could ideally choose to balance the campaigns.

In short, you assume that most faction-hopping players will faction lock themselves to their usual faction instead of the one they think will currently give then the best rewards. I'm pointing out that assumption you've made.

WaltherCarraway

I thought only good players play cross faction.

BRogueNZ

@VaranisArano
"EP now has a population boost locked in for however long that faction lock lasts, and DC/AD are losing even the part time efforts of those faction hoppers. "

What is a population boost? and who'd care if their 'hearts' were not in it, and such a system locks them out of a campaign they didn't give a hoot about anyway? Only they'd care.

I'm not sure the OP has a solution, but you're post was lengthy but not saying much, got me curious

Dreyloch

Only way to truly fix faction imbalance would be ZoS not giving anyone a choice anymore. You start the campaign, you get tossed into a faction based on "balance" between all 3. No more guild groups, no more 24 man ball groups. Everyone comes in as individuals and you make groups afterward.

Another option is to make it so once a faction hits a certain number, you can no longer play as that faction. You can be a DC player, but you'd have to play for AD etc. It can open up again as soon as the factions balance out. It'd be way more dynamic.

But who am I kidding? None of this will ever happen. Too many players will cry about not being able to group with friends, so it's a mute point. Cyrodiil on all platforms is becoming a 1 or 2 faction fight. If your on the 3rd faction your doomed to be third place forever unless you make another toon, paying money for more slots and making the ZoS bottom line happier and making the players even more disgusted with campaign PvP.

BRogueNZ

or we just play have fun and care less, armed with the knowledge that faction pride is not a feature and that player you were fighting beside last night, now wants you dead. Is it as easy as changing your attitude accordingly? derpvp or knowing a brother has your back and means it.

phairdon

Or when you choose an alliance, all characters are tied to it, for the length of the campaign. No hopping to the winning side. Always thought it would be a better idea to choose an alliance when you enter Cyrodiil, rather than the alliance choice being tied into character creation. My 2 cents worth.

Biro123

Dreyloch wrote: »

Only way to truly fix faction imbalance would be ZoS not giving anyone a choice anymore. You start the campaign, you get tossed into a faction based on "balance" between all 3. No more guild groups, no more 24 man ball groups. Everyone comes in as individuals and you make groups afterward.

Another option is to make it so once a faction hits a certain number, you can no longer play as that faction. You can be a DC player, but you'd have to play for AD etc. It can open up again as soon as the factions balance out. It'd be way more dynamic.

But who am I kidding? None of this will ever happen. Too many players will cry about not being able to group with friends, so it's a mute point. Cyrodiil on all platforms is becoming a 1 or 2 faction fight. If your on the 3rd faction your doomed to be third place forever unless you make another toon, paying money for more slots and making the ZoS bottom line happier and making the players even more disgusted with campaign PvP.

I'd love a server like that

VaranisArano

BRogueNZ wrote: »

@VaranisArano
"EP now has a population boost locked in for however long that faction lock lasts, and DC/AD are losing even the part time efforts of those faction hoppers. "

What is a population boost? and who'd care if their 'hearts' were not in it, and such a system locks them out of a campaign they didn't give a hoot about anyway? Only they'd care.

I'm not sure the OP has a solution, but you're post was lengthy but not saying much, got me curious

The OP is pointing out that a certain amount of players bandwagon onto the currently winning faction for rewards and AP, boosting that faction's population, and unbalancing the campaign. This does happen. Their solution is to faction lock everyone to their original faction to prevent this bandwagon cross faction play.

My point is that players get to choose which side to play for even in a faction lock. So rather than fight for their original faction (thus balancing the campaign as the OP desires), there's the potential for bandwagon players to faction lock themselves to the currently winning faction, thus perpetuating the faction imbalance on that campaign.

In other words, it might be as simple as the OP suggests. But it might not be, and theres the potential for it to imbalance rather than balance the campaign.

VaranisArano

Dreyloch wrote: »

Only way to truly fix faction imbalance would be ZoS not giving anyone a choice anymore. You start the campaign, you get tossed into a faction based on "balance" between all 3. No more guild groups, no more 24 man ball groups. Everyone comes in as individuals and you make groups afterward.

Another option is to make it so once a faction hits a certain number, you can no longer play as that faction. You can be a DC player, but you'd have to play for AD etc. It can open up again as soon as the factions balance out. It'd be way more dynamic.

But who am I kidding? None of this will ever happen. Too many players will cry about not being able to group with friends, so it's a mute point. Cyrodiil on all platforms is becoming a 1 or 2 faction fight. If your on the 3rd faction your doomed to be third place forever unless you make another toon, paying money for more slots and making the ZoS bottom line happier and making the players even more disgusted with campaign PvP.

Yeah, I'd hate that. I like organized PVP, not constantly zerging or PUGing with a bunch of players I don't know, which is what randomly assigning factions would do.

aetherial_heavenn

The problem is that flipping to high pop winning factions is rewarded.

Strong factions get stronger thru ap reward system. More keeps held and more buffs lead to unassailable leads. Then non committed players start leaving the losing side/weaker factions until one dominates, like EP has since April on Vivec. Joining the winning side has no downside.

As Cyrodil encourages 2 v1 faction fights due to map design the problem is it ends up with, like today, for example, only 10-20 DC fighting to save Ales and 10-20 trying to save Ash versus double or triple those numbers, as AD and EP legitimately exploit the low numbers remaining on DC.

Understandably People get disheartened at losing to higher numbers all the time so the problem is compounded.

I know they won't faction lock but I would like some campaign rewards adjusted so those who stay fighting for the losing side get some joy.

Maybe every 'flip' in the 30 day campaign reduces your AP gain by 10% per flip, account wide.

Or, given that some people run several accts, maybe reward accounts /players who stay in the campaign on the same side for 30 days with one gold jewellery regardless of their leaderboard position. Or something.

Gprime31

If your not EP you don’t matter. EP for life.
Besides who wants to be on a faction with a blue cat or a yellow chicken on the flag lol

Anrose

BRogueNZ wrote: »

or we just play have fun and care less, armed with the knowledge that faction pride is not a feature and that player you were fighting beside last night, now wants you dead. Is it as easy as changing your attitude accordingly? derpvp or knowing a brother has your back and means it.

I’ve chosen this route. I main one faction where my guild plays, but I also play both the others when I want a change in scenery or need those coveted transmutation crystals.

I also have open invites to play with guilds on both the other factions. You know why? Because there are some cool people over there playing the same game I am, and they’re fun to be around.

I use this game to decompress from the stressors in real life, of which there are many. I’m not about to make life as complicated in game as it is is IRL. If the devs made it that way, then that’s the game. But until they do, I’m not going to get my proverbial panties in a bunch.

Xsorus

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

The problem is that flipping to high pop winning factions is rewarded.

Strong factions get stronger thru ap reward system. More keeps held and more buffs lead to unassailable leads. Then non committed players start leaving the losing side/weaker factions until one dominates, like EP has since April on Vivec. Joining the winning side has no downside.

As Cyrodil encourages 2 v1 faction fights due to map design the problem is it ends up with, like today, for example, only 10-20 DC fighting to save Ales and 10-20 trying to save Ash versus double or triple those numbers, as AD and EP legitimately exploit the low numbers remaining on DC.

Understandably People get disheartened at losing to higher numbers all the time so the problem is compounded.

I know they won't faction lock but I would like some campaign rewards adjusted so those who stay fighting for the losing side get some joy.

Maybe every 'flip' in the 30 day campaign reduces your AP gain by 10% per flip, account wide.

Or, given that some people run several accts, maybe reward accounts /players who stay in the campaign on the same side for 30 days with one gold jewellery regardless of their leaderboard position. Or something.

Pretty much, I bet if you looked the numbers you'd see EP and AD consistently hit DC keeps the most because it has the least population. They usually do it at the same time because anytime they face any actual resistance most of the potato's in their faction get rolled over rather quickly.

BRogueNZ

Think is a little confusion about this, the server will hold only so many players that's the server lock, this isn't the same thing as locking people to a single faction per campaign cycle

jaime1982

Xsorus wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

The problem is that flipping to high pop winning factions is rewarded.

Strong factions get stronger thru ap reward system. More keeps held and more buffs lead to unassailable leads. Then non committed players start leaving the losing side/weaker factions until one dominates, like EP has since April on Vivec. Joining the winning side has no downside.

As Cyrodil encourages 2 v1 faction fights due to map design the problem is it ends up with, like today, for example, only 10-20 DC fighting to save Ales and 10-20 trying to save Ash versus double or triple those numbers, as AD and EP legitimately exploit the low numbers remaining on DC.

Understandably People get disheartened at losing to higher numbers all the time so the problem is compounded.

I know they won't faction lock but I would like some campaign rewards adjusted so those who stay fighting for the losing side get some joy.

Maybe every 'flip' in the 30 day campaign reduces your AP gain by 10% per flip, account wide.

Or, given that some people run several accts, maybe reward accounts /players who stay in the campaign on the same side for 30 days with one gold jewellery regardless of their leaderboard position. Or something.

Pretty much, I bet if you looked the numbers you'd see EP and AD consistently hit DC keeps the most because it has the least population. They usually do it at the same time because anytime they face any actual resistance most of the potato's in their faction get rolled over rather quickly.

Na-pc-vicec this is my observation. It's all good, never a dull day but it does get annoying sometimes.

I think other servers they complain about team purple, green ect.

BRogueNZ

jaime1982 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

The problem is that flipping to high pop winning factions is rewarded.

Strong factions get stronger thru ap reward system. More keeps held and more buffs lead to unassailable leads. Then non committed players start leaving the losing side/weaker factions until one dominates, like EP has since April on Vivec. Joining the winning side has no downside.

As Cyrodil encourages 2 v1 faction fights due to map design the problem is it ends up with, like today, for example, only 10-20 DC fighting to save Ales and 10-20 trying to save Ash versus double or triple those numbers, as AD and EP legitimately exploit the low numbers remaining on DC.

Understandably People get disheartened at losing to higher numbers all the time so the problem is compounded.

I know they won't faction lock but I would like some campaign rewards adjusted so those who stay fighting for the losing side get some joy.

Maybe every 'flip' in the 30 day campaign reduces your AP gain by 10% per flip, account wide.

Or, given that some people run several accts, maybe reward accounts /players who stay in the campaign on the same side for 30 days with one gold jewellery regardless of their leaderboard position. Or something.

Pretty much, I bet if you looked the numbers you'd see EP and AD consistently hit DC keeps the most because it has the least population. They usually do it at the same time because anytime they face any actual resistance most of the potato's in their faction get rolled over rather quickly.

Na-pc-vicec this is my observation. It's all good, never a dull day but it does get annoying sometimes.

I think other servers they complain about team purple, green ect.

It is a lot of fun most of the time, I find it gets dull if you're dominating the shovel or being dominated the shite, the relative balance in between doesn't last long enough some days.

heng14rwb17_ESO

PC EU AD TOO OP!

dtsharples

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

PC EU AD TOO OP!

So OP that they had to use the glitch to get into an Outpost postern door, even though they had already opened the main gate.
I guess there was too much oil or something.......so AD 'tactics'....just cheat instead!

Whole faction stacking one one keep, zerging the map at 4am - you really truly are OP.

Xai_Zi

Since there is a thread very similar to this I'm just gonna quote myself.

Xai_Zi wrote: »

Dyngrin wrote: »

So EP pushes for a scroll when AD fails and AD conveniently ends up with the scroll, suspicious? I ask because the scroll will probably keep AD from coming in last this campaign where they deserve (since in recent campaigns AD doesn't play to win by mainly attacking the leading faction in the campaign). Perhaps it's time for ZOS to enforce a single faction per account as DAoC did (the gold standard for PvP MMOs).

--Dyn

Hypothetically if this was implemented, what would happen to AD if all the players from DomDom and DK just decided one to stop playing. What would happen to DC if all the players from Iron Legion and GoD decided to stop playing?

Most of the people that play in Cyrodiil are the same people you always see, not very many new people are coming to Cyrodiil, so locking people to one faction would mean rebalancing would become impossible if an alliance were to take a drastic hit to their population.

Your idea only works if there is a constant flow of new players to Cyrodiil.

On a side note, the number of "treasonous" players is so small. Most cross-faction players genuinely try to help the faction they are playing on, you shouldn't judge them because of a handful of troublemakers and trolls.

What we really need are dynamic pop locks on each campaign, that would definitely encourage people to even out the factions.

Hammy01

Xsorus wrote: »

They need to go back to one faction per server. Once they allowed Cross Realming a whole lot of bads swapped to the winning side every time.

I think one of the worst changes ZOS made was allowing faction swapping while a campaign is in progress....

Hammy01

Dreyloch wrote: »

Only way to truly fix faction imbalance would be ZoS not giving anyone a choice anymore. You start the campaign, you get tossed into a faction based on "balance" between all 3. No more guild groups, no more 24 man ball groups. Everyone comes in as individuals and you make groups afterward.

Another option is to make it so once a faction hits a certain number, you can no longer play as that faction. You can be a DC player, but you'd have to play for AD etc. It can open up again as soon as the factions balance out. It'd be way more dynamic.

But who am I kidding? None of this will ever happen. Too many players will cry about not being able to group with friends, so it's a mute point. Cyrodiil on all platforms is becoming a 1 or 2 faction fight. If your on the 3rd faction your doomed to be third place forever unless you make another toon, paying money for more slots and making the ZoS bottom line happier and making the players even more disgusted with campaign PvP.

They could do this if each campaign was 24hrs and they allowed people to queue as a small group anywhere from 2 person group to 6 person group. 24 hrs is a good time limit to have some fun with your A list friends but short enough that the next day you could spend some time with your B list friends.... just mix it up every 24 hrs.

King_Thelon

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

I thought only good players play cross faction.

Good players who cross-faction do so to find outnumbered fights as members of the outnumbered alliance.

Bad players who cross-faction do so to run around in the biggeest, mindless, skill-free blob they can find.

What type of gameplay can we expect from you?

Katahdin

Nothing will change

If they go back to faction locked, people will just roll whatever faction is most dominant.

Right now on Vivec, that is EP. Almost everyone with an EP toon will roll EP.

Joshlenoir

Why do you guys think you deserve to dictate whether people are able to switch factions or not?
This was already implemented in the game and it was removed because nobody really takes cyrodill seriously anymore. Campaign score does not matter.
I have an EP and a AD that I like to play on, I will play the opposite faction when one has the entire map because it gets boring and I end up having nobody to fight. Not everybody takes the map as seriously as yourself and locking players out with methods like this will make the map more dead than it already is.

WaltherCarraway

King_Thelon wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

I thought only good players play cross faction.

Good players who cross-faction do so to find outnumbered fights as members of the outnumbered alliance.

Bad players who cross-faction do so to run around in the biggeest, mindless, skill-free blob they can find.

What type of gameplay can we expect from you?

Both.